Favorite black bear caliber for NE woods?

[Brian P.]

I woke up today to a job offer in VT. Low pay but after 1 year of no work after college I'm super excited!  I immediately checked out the hunting scene and see that they have a black bear density of 1 bear per 3 square miles (amazing).  I'm leaning towards a 35 Whelen but was wondering if you black bear guys like to use jacketed or cast in your 45-70's?  If anyone hunts VT, do you know how difficult it is to get a bear tag?
 

[Dinny]

The Whelen and just about any 300+ grain jacketed or cast .45/70 projectile moving over 1600fps will work well on black bears.

Thanks, Dinny

[Sourdough]

Either one will do the job.  I lean towards the 45-70, with Buffalo Bore cartridges. 

I use 225gr Nosler Partitions with my .35 Whelen, and cast 400gr lead bullets for the 45-70.

[VT30-30]

Brian,
  Although I do not live in VT now it's was where I was born and raised. When you buy your hunting license
a bear tag is included.
  And the bear population is doing pretty good in the NE kingdom where I lived. 

  Steve

[c1skout]

Here in PA I'd wager that the good old 30-30 is the most used bear gun, and they shoot bears that go over 600lbs about every year. I've never got a shot at a bear but I've carried an '06, 270, 45-70 and 6.5 Carcano at different times. Everybody I know who has gotten a bear was useing either an '06 or 30-30.

[Brian P.]

 Good info, thanks guys!

[abolt-fan]

Brian,
I hunt Vermont every year and as previously stated you get a bear tag when you buy your hunting license.  In the SW part of the state I hunt quite a few bears get taken. 

So far as caliber choice I'll wring the bell for the Whelen.  There's plenty of cartridges suitable and yes a 45-70 will do a great job.  I like the Whelen because it's a hammer near or far.  It will give you more range should you find a bear feeding in a corn field that you can't close on.  I load 225gr. Barnes TSX bullets in mine.  The one bear I've taken with that load dropped in his tracks.

[SwampThing762]

In Florida, we can't shoot the black bears that live here, but we got the "poor man's grizzly" in its place.  My primary cartridge of choice is the 12 gauge 2.75 inch 525 grain Lyman sabot slug in Federal Game Load shell.   That load punches a .68 caliber hole through the Florida Swamp Demons, sending 'em straight to pork chop Hell.   Never had one go further than 25 yards.

Also, the 12 gauge Lyman slugs are a bit more forgiving on reloading.   No OALs and crimps and cannelures to worry about.

Just my dos pesetas.

ST762

[Brian P.]

load punches a .68 caliber hole through the Florida Swamp Demons, sending 'em straight to pork chop Hell.   

 

[jpshaw]

My two most used Handi rifles are a .444 and "foreever in my truck" .30-30.  I would pick either.  The .444 would be the sensible choice but knowing me I would just take the turdy-turdy.

[hoytcanon]

Any load carrying 1200-1300 ft/lb at a particular distance, will do the job on blackies... the key is shot placement. One pill in the lungs and "leet 'im" run... if you don't take out the boiler room, you better be a good tracker.

[jlwilliams]

  Lots of guys using 30-30.  The black bears in the NE aren't anywhere near the size of some of the western species.  That said, if you are going to go for a bear specific gun there is no reason not to go with a bigger bore.  45-70 is more than enough.  You don't even need the Buffalo Bore loads.  They are great, but a bit heavy for putting in the practice you should.  I wouldn't go all the way down to the lightest loads you can get, but anybody who says Trapdoor loads aren't good can go tell it to the buffalo or to the Red Man.  Remington 405 grain semi jacketed soft points (regular old hunting loads) are good.  Hard cast is good too.  Any load that's a hunting load (as opposed to a light target load) will do it's part if you do yours.
 
  Seriously, if you are going to go for one rifle, a 30-30 or a 308 or 35Rem or 444 or 45-70 or any of the classic American game rifle rounds will do you fine.

[jaysouth]

I am glad that my last black bear did not read this thread.  He would have been embarrased to have died from a single cast .30-30 bullet in the lungs.

[hoytcanon]

I am glad that my last black bear did not read this thread.  He would have been embarrased to have died from a single cast .30-30 bullet in the lungs.

Imagine how my spear bear would have felt.

[mcwoodduck]

Either one will do the job.  I lean towards the 45-70, with Buffalo Bore cartridges. 

I use 225gr Nosler Partitions with my .35 Whelen, and cast 400gr lead bullets for the 45-70.

I want to caution you on the Buffalo Bore 45-70 loads.
Make sure your rifle can handle them.  If you ave a trap door it will make the gun an auto ejector ONCE! and the same with the early Marlin 1895's.

[jlwilliams]

I am glad that my last black bear did not read this thread.  He would have been embarrased to have died from a single cast .30-30 bullet in the lungs.

  30-30 puts a lot of meat into a lot of freezers each and every year.

[Bob_VT]

Our (Vermont) Bear population is strong and growing.  45-70 is perfect for the task since there are not many places where you will actually get a 200 yard shot. 


Vermont "used to be" 75% farmland and 25% forest and now it is exactly the opposite.  You will find rock walls in the weirdest places in the woods (Hint - following a rock wall to get out of the woods could take a LONG time )


Since we have a relatively young forest there is significant scrub brush and small trees.  A 45-70 eliminates allot of that worry.


Our deer and bear population are getting stronger.


Where in VT are you moving to?  The other game animal is the Moose  


Good luck with your move and the new job!


Bear tag and deer tag come with the hunting license.  Archery and Muzzleloader are small additional fees. 


I hunt with a 45-70 hand-loaded with 300 gr hollow-points and 405 JSP which are adequate for anything in the state.


FYI I live not too far from the Killington Ski Area.

[petemi]

Mine would be my .45-70......errr.......356/.358.......err.......38-55.........maybe....308.........445?.......a perhaps 7mm-08.......da Tirty Tirty.......Geeze, I don't know.

Pete

[MSP Ret]

I usually hunt deer in Maine (not this year) and have hunted in Vermont also, may go back there soon, it's a great state for hunting. I have not hunted specifically for black bear but have seen them while deer hunting in both Maine and Vermont.
My choice to use for black bear from my Handis would first be my 45-70, then my .35 Remington (a great New England deer and bear gun). I have a .35 Whelen and I am sure it would work fine but it is overkill and would not be necessary. If I had to use either my 30-30 or 12 guage I would also feel very comfortable with the right ammunition.
Your choice buddy, they will all do fine as long as you do your part and put the proper bullet where it should go.
Congratulations on your job in Vermont, you are going to love it there, except for the liberals and socialists that seem to be everywhere there ...<><....
 
Merry CHRISTmas....<><....

[Brian P.]

The position is in Essex. 
I was reading that some black bears were getting 500lbs, though, I know that would be the exception.  I'm kinda leaning towards the 35 Whelen as I kind of want just one 'do everything' BIG rifle; but the .45 bore certainly has it's appeal    I'll spend some time thinking on this. And thanks everyone!

[Bob_VT]

Essex is a nice area and close enough to hunt North or South.


If you take the position and want to hunt Bear give me a shout.  I will point out some great Bear hunting areas near me and hopefully......my knee replacements will have healed up enough to join you.


A local bear hunter near here chased one for almost 30 miles with his dogs (well his dogs did the chasing).  The bears do quite a bit of crop damage to the feed corn and my neighbor lost over 3 acres to damage.  The bear hunter carried a 35 Whalen........ I will stick to my 45-70


If you come to Vermont..... Welcome.

[Brian P.]

Thank Bob!  I hope it works out.  I grew up and worked most of my life on 1200 acres in southwest MN and while we didn't have bears we DID have deer doing crop damage as well as coyotes in the cows/sheep.  I got lots of trigger time on 17Rem's for coyotes but zero experience hunting bears.  I'm pretty excited

[Mr.Crowley]

doesnt take much to kill a black bear ive done it with a single round from a 45 colt revolver. Id say anything from a 243 to a 45-70 you should be good to go

[Brian P.]

Hmmm, I do have a blr 243 . . .

[45-70.gov]

the 35 welen  is probly a more versitile round,,,due to flatter trajectory


but  no oe has to have a 35 wellen
45-70  is mandatory


with the cost of ammo and jacketed bullets...i cast my own
and think the 45-70 has an edge here

[RPRNY]

I have a house in southern VT and hunt black bear there. The average bear taken in southern VT weighs about 160lbs. The biggest bear I know of taken in Windham Co was 215 lbs. Anything that will do for deer will do for black bear. Yes, every year a couple of 300 lb bears are taken, but that's the exception that proves the rule. In 2011, the heaviest bear taken was 385lbs, and far in excess of the next largest. I don't know where talk of 500lb black bears in VT comes from except the bottom of a bottle.

And given that there's no hunting over bait, the majority of bear taken (without hounds) are incidental during deer season. 30-30 still takes more bear and deer in the southern part of the state than anything else. Up north and in the Kingdom where you'll get field shots on deer, you may want .270, 308 or something else long and flat. But bear will still be taken in the woods at sub 75 yds. I took my Classic in 45lc/.454 out with me this year but didn't get a bear. I would not hesitate to use 140gr 6.5x55 on black bear. These aren't grizzlies and they aren't hard to kill.

Congratulations on your job. If you stay there the rest of your life, you'll still be a flatlander, but your kids might just get Vermonter status if you marry a native. And don't worry about low pay - you'll be in good company

[MSP Ret]

I have to say that 160 pounds seems a bit light, not much more than a big cub really. According to the State of Maine the average bear shot in Maine goes between 300 and 400 pounds. The old state record was 680 pounds. That record was broken this year by a bear taken about an hour from my camp in Maine that wieghed out officially at 699 pounds. It was taken by a recently returned vet on his first bear hunt. Everyone is happy for him. Any adult that shot a 160 pound bear in my area of Maine would be looked upon with extreme disfavor....<><....

[quickdtoo]

From the Vermont Wildlife Fact Sheet...

Physical Description
Live weights for adult female
black bears in Vermont
average between 120 and 180
pounds. A female exceeding 200
pounds is uncommon. In contrast,
male black bears are generally
larger, weighing 300-400 pounds.

http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/library/factsheets/Hunting_and_Trapping/big_game/black_bear_fact_sheet.pdf

[hoytcanon]

I have hunted bears for 35 years in Ontario, where they can grow very large... BUT the average size of bears taken by hunters is 230 pounds... This is because the bulk of displaced bears are 2 1/2 year old juveniles roaming to establish their own territories... These bears weigh between 100 and 150 pounds and account for 65% of the total harvest... Which is typical in most districts (bear biology is the same everywhere). Maine bears taken by hunters DO NOT average 300-400 pounds! I have been fortunate to harvest more than two dozen bears over 300 pounds... But only because I have the luxury of hunting for the entire season in some of the best black bear habitat in the world... And I am
more selective than most, passing up many bears before I drop the string. Nobody ANYWHERE needs to be embarrassed of shooting a 200 pound black bear (which is a fine, adult animal and good eating)... Unless you are a keyboard hunter, or a true Cabela's Dangerous Hunts pro! ;-)

[Brian P.]

but  no oe has to have a 35 wellen
45-70  is mandatory

   
The first thing I'm going to do is get into casting; which is why I got the 223 handi in the first place   Considering the limited use I would get out of a 'big game' rifle I can tollerate the OVER-INFLATED price of some TSX or TTSX bullets and don't expect to shoot it more than 50 times a year after load development.  I also have the consideration of something that would have use back home on the flatlands were 200-300 yrd shots are probable.  Those 45-70's would look nice on a cartridge belt, though . . .