obummercare may cost 93,000 hospitol jobs. Thanks liberal democrats.

[ChungDoQuan]

MY facts are straight. Pre-med is a bachelor's degree. Med school is a master's. Sure, they have to do two years as interns, and 4 to 6 as residents, but they get paid for those. And floor nurses are mostly BSNs now, but Nurse Practitioners are now required to have a Doctorate in a lot of states, and have ALWAYS been required to have a master's, except in Psych, for a while. Those are the FACTS. And PAs get paid roughly twice what NPs get.

By the way, the real story as relates to the OP is hospitals are threatening to close only in those states refusing to get on board with Obamacare. All they'd have to do is agree to expand the state's Medicaid to cover the uninsured, and the hospitals would not lose funding, so Texas, Wisconsin, Louisiana, y'all go for it--- y'all will be the examples when your hospitals fail. What have those states got agains t the poor? 83% of the uninsured are working poor, some with more than one job. And ALL of them cost many times as much to get treated in the ER than if the states just insured them. But, hey, conservatives are the "fiscally responsible" ones, so y'all just go ahead on...

[Cuts Crooked]

Gotts call ya on that one Chung.

I work closely with the healthcare industry, and nurses just don't make those kinds of dollars unless they are "administrative nurses". And there isn't a huge demand for that type.......because they cost too much, and don't do hands on care.

[ChungDoQuan]

Ok, since facts don't get inside the bubble, I'll let y'all assume you're in the ballpark and y'all can deal with the problem  if it happens. Tell you what, call a local PRN agency and ask what are their rates for  RNs if you're paying out-of-pocket--- it's going to be more than most people can pay. Still, that's trying to divert the discussion. The only hospitals threatened with closure are in those red states that are refusing to cooperate with Obamacare.

[SHOOTALL]

A friend who is a nurse was working in a hospital and decided to take off 18 mos to finish getting her DR's degree. When she returned she was not rehired because she was to educated and would make to much money . AND THEY NEEDED NURSES .

[Cuts Crooked]

Tell you what, call a local PRN agency and ask what are their rates for  RNs i

Gotta call you on THAT one too! I have a couple of good freinds who work for such agencies. What the agency CHARGES and what the Nurse receives in pay is two different things altogether!

[SHOOTALL]

Tell you what, call a local PRN agency and ask what are their rates for  RNs i

Gotta all you on THAT one too! I have a couple of good freinds who work for such agencies. What the agency CHARGES and what the Nurse receives in pay is two different things altogether!

same with the trades , want a good idea call a hospital and ask what they pay.

[ChungDoQuan]

Tell you what, call a local PRN agency and ask what are their rates for  RNs i

Gotta call you on THAT one too! I have a couple of good freinds who work for such agencies. What the agency CHARGES and what the Nurse receives in pay is two different things altogether!

What DO they pay? Did you check?

[Cuts Crooked]

What DO they pay? Did you check?

Don't have too, I see how they LIVE on a daily basis......they ain't makin' no $40 per hour fer sure.

[ChungDoQuan]

So, you don't KNOW, do you? I DO KNOW.  I've given you numbers, with evidence. Some people are like my dad, who is against earned benefits (Y'all call them "entitlements") but who will literally DIE if it weren't for Medicare and SSI. 

[mechanic]

Chung, perhaps there are regional differences.  I have a friend who is a PA.  He doesn't make $40.00 an hour.  He said most RN's around here with several years in would be about $25.00 per hr.
 
A nurse practioner in our area would be around $30.00 - 35.00 per hr. working for an office.  In a private clinic practice, perhaps much more.
 
Ben

[gstewart44]

MY facts are straight.WRONG.... Pre-med is a bachelor's degree.This part  is true


Med school is a master's.  Outright falsehood or ignorance...those that graduate from medical school have EARNED a DOCTORATE in MEDICINE!


Sure, they have to do two years as interns, and 4 to 6 as residents, but they get paid for those. So what...that is slave wages looking at their measly stipend and the hours they put in.....


And floor nurses are mostly BSNs now, but Nurse Practitioners are now required to have a Doctorate in a lot of states, Very few..


and have ALWAYS been required to have a master's, except in Psych, for a while. As it should be - Masters takes about two years after Bachelor level as opposed to the FOUR years required for DOCTORS...you do your research on all the Med School web sites and State Boards....I have


Those are the FACTS. And PAs get paid roughly twice what NPs get.Pure exaggeration...show it if you want to own that statement
In 2011, the average NP working full time earned a salary of $90,583, while the average PA working full time earned $94,870 (see National Salary Report 2011).
NPs with a PhD make an average salary of $95,449, and PAs with a PhD make an average salary of $101,514 (see NP & PA Salary by Academic Degree).
By the way, the real story as relates to the OP is hospitals are threatening to close only in those states refusing to get on board with Obamacare. All they'd have to do is agree to expand the state's Medicaid to cover the uninsured,Hmmmm,Taking the burden off the Fed


 and the hospitals would not lose funding, Wrong, so wrong....they would lose a ton because the cost to the states will far exceed what they receive from the Fed... really do your homework.


so Texas, Wisconsin, Louisiana, y'all go for it--- y'all will be the examples when your hospitals fail. they won't....they will manage it without Fed interference.....


What have those states got agains t the poor? Not a thing.....they have a lot against fiscal irresponsibility which you appear to be an advocate of .....


83% of the uninsured are working poor, some with more than one job. Very true BUTTTTTTTT


And ALL of them cost many times as much to get treated in the ER than if the states just insured them.WRONG SO WRONG...your statement assumes that ALL of the uninsured will end up in the emergency room but actual utilization rates are much less for this demographic. In actuality the most cost effective treatment modality in the nation comes from independent Community Health Centers that have active ER diversion programs in place.


 But, hey, conservatives are the "fiscally responsible" ones,Yes that is what has been said.....  but just you try and splurge with impunity with debt beyond your means, ignoring your fiscal responsibility,  and you will be seeing the decor of the incarcerated. 


so y'all just go ahead on...Yup - we know right from wrong

[SwampThing762]

Chung,

Another 800-pound gorilla you are ignoring is unreimbursed care costs absorbed by hospitals.    People know, by now, that there is no legal mechanism to compel deadbeats and parasites to pay monies they owe to medical establishments.   All the fines, mandates, penalties, or whatever you want to call them, in Obamacare, will not address the unreimbursed costs hospitals must absorb because of EMTALA.

You claim you own a business.    Consider this......how long will you have a business, and capacity to support employees and your family, if people come to your establishment, consume your products and services, and then leave without paying you for those goods and services?    The painful answer......not very long.

ST762

[ChungDoQuan]

A graduate from med school has a MASTERS degree, not a DOCTORATE. (Some of the Medical schools do call their grads Doctor of Medicine, but the entry level degree is still at the masters level.) It is a "practical" degree. That means they can be licensed to practice. The graduate is not a "doctor" until they pass their board exams. When they pass their boards they are licensed as a MEDICAL DOCTOR, but they do not have a DOCTORATE DEGREE unless they get a PhD, which requires several more years of school. Most don't. And a degree in medicine is not like say, a masters in chemistry or engineering--- it's harder to get.  Don't confuse the license with the education. I'm not taking anything away from the work they put in, their accomplishments, or the time it takes to get it. It is a very hard degree to get.

The EMTALA laws mean that hospitals have to provide for the homeless, poor, and uninsured NOW, for free, meaning their costs go up and the insured have to pay more to cover it NOW, so what's your point?

Obamacare provides for uninsured people to go to primary care instead of the ER, which is a much cheaper way to get healthcare than providing for everyone through the ER.

[SHOOTALL]

Had a neighbor who had about as much education as most nurses. She was in the operating room/emg room . She was in on open heart surgery and nucler medicine qualifyed . She worked 2 shifts alot because it was hard to find nurses with her qualifications. She lived well but she was offered a job selling operating room furniture and it was a big pay raise .

[ChungDoQuan]

Nurses in hospitals are the blue collar workers in the healthcare system. What you are purchasing from hospitals is NURSING CARE. That's the core of what hospitals sell. Yeah, you get other services at hospitals, but if there are no nurses, there is no hospital. Anybody else that works in a hospital is there to make it possible for the nurses to take care of more patients. Nurses can't work alone--- they have to have receptionists, housekeepers, maintenance, security, etc. just to do their job. It costs at least $600 just to move a patient to another room, and anywhere from $800 to several thousand per room per patient, every 24 hours, depending on level of care. Just like anything else, hospital RNs are not going to get rich.  They can make a lot more money outside the hospital. By the way, drunks cost 'way more to care for than drug addicts and homeless. And, for business purposes, MDs are not really in the system at all--- they are Licensed Independent Providers, LIPs. That's why you get a separate bill from the doctor than from the hospital.

Shootall, without a license, your neighbor is not a nurse. Many hospitals use non-licensed techs in the OR and EMTs in the ER because they are cheaper than paying nurses, and in both areas, there is always a doctor there. Nurses are the eyes and hands of the docs. If the docs are there, they may not need nurses.

[gstewart44]

A graduate from med school has a MASTERS degree, not a DOCTORATE.
Your lack of knowledge and confused logic is mind boggling.... Look on the Diploma (not the state license) given to the successful graduates of any Accredited Medical/Dental/Veterinary college......It says "Doctor of ____"   It does not say "Master of ______"

It is a "practical" degree. True - as opposed to the counterpart Academic/Research non-practical degree, the PhD

When they pass their boards they are licensed as a MEDICAL DOCTOR, but they do not have a DOCTORATE DEGREE unless they get a PhD, Wrong again dude....just look at the writing on the diploma  "DOCTOR of _______".   
 
which requires several more years of school. Most don't. And a degree in medicine is not like say, a masters in chemistry or engineering--- it's harder to get.  Don't confuse the license with the education. I am not confusing the two.   You are not distinguishing between the two different pathways to DOCTORATE degrees.....one being the "practical" (DOCTOR of MEDICINE) and the other being academic/research(PhD) - They are both DOCTORATE degrees that are conferred upon their recipients.....

Obamacare provides for uninsured people to go to primary care instead of the ER, which is a much cheaper way to get healthcare than providing for everyone through the ER.  The fallacy of this is that there are not enough Primary Care Physicians in the country to handle the immediate influx of 80 million more people into the system.....so yes the ERs will still be providing the care that Obamacare is supposed to change.

[Cuts Crooked]

So, you don't KNOW, do you? I DO KNOW.  I've given you numbers, with evidence. Some people are like my dad, who is against earned benefits (Y'all call them "entitlements") but who will literally DIE if it weren't for Medicare and SSI. 

Your claim is laughable! You so called "evidence" comes from a an online job search site. That has a vested interest in inventing stats to increase their "hit" numbers.

[SHOOTALL]

earned benifits ? like the SS systen that has been abused ? name some others.

[ChungDoQuan]

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Registered_Nurse_%28RN%29/Hourly_Rate

The SSI program has not been abused by those who actually use the benefits. It has been raped by the government, and I mean BOTH sides of the aisle. Currently, nearly $6 trillion of the national debt is owed back to SSI. That's why the rightys want to do away with it-- so they can just write that off without having to pay it back to the citizens who paid into it, EARNING those BENEFITS.

[ChungDoQuan]

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291111.htm

Another one.

[SHOOTALL]

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Registered_Nurse_%28RN%29/Hourly_Rate

The SSI program has not been abused by those who actually use the benefits. It has been raped by the government, and I mean BOTH sides of the aisle. Currently, nearly $6 trillion of the national debt is owed back to SSI. That's why the rightys want to do away with it-- so they can just write that off without having to pay it back to the citizens who paid into it, EARNING those BENEFITS.

my point and now HC will be abused and cost more to adm. with less benifit than most had.

[Dixie Dude]

LPN's around hear make about $15/hr.  RN's make about $25.  CDQ's way off the mark.  I go to chruch with an RN floor supervisor at the local hospital.  She only makes about $35/hr.  This is a 9 story hospital, not a small one either. 
 
Mark my words CDQ.  Obamacare is going to be a failure when it is fully implemented.  Now the Senate is looking at dropping the tax on medical equipment, because everyone said they would just pass on the costs to the consumers.  Hmm.  The consumer always pay EVERY tax leved.  Corporations pass on the cost.  Government is a parasite on the capitalist system.  Even in Soviet Russia, the one acre farm plots each farm worker received to grow their own vegetables produced 1/4 of their entire output of food, which they were allowed to sell on the open market.  The Soviet Union had a huge underground economy. 
 
I am seeing a huge increase in the underground economy now.  Lots of flea markets, gun shows.  People are taking gold and silver as payment, making trades on stuff.  Lots of people laid off and collecting unemployment benefits are doing work on the "side" getting paid cash or barter. 
 
My SIL barters all the time.  He does work for people, and traded work for an enclosed trailer, a riding lawn mower, chickens, some goats.  He does this all the time to keep from paying so much in taxes.  He is a general contractor. 
 
Some people are doing yard work, etc, and asking only for cash. 
 
Taxes are going up in January.  Obamacare taxes start taking place.  FICA tax will increase.  Stuff like surgical gloves, hypo needles, etc will have a 3.8% tax to be levied on them.  Also, the GOP is caving on the tax increases WITHOUT getting any cuts in the budget.  Inflation is really running about 10%.  The economy by the second quarter next year will go back in recession.  Obama WANTS THE RICH CAPITALIST, CHRISTIAN, COLONIAL (he thinks) Americans to PAY what he thinks is FAIR.  He doesn't care what will work, has worked, and does work from the past.  His VIEW of history is not from the typical American viewpoint.  His is foreign to what once was mainstream America. 
 
America will loose it's place in the world because of him.  Yes Bush started the excessive spending, but Obama is WORSE, and has no clue as to what will REALLY work to bring America back.
 
   

[ChungDoQuan]

You could be right, if you want the de-funded, second class, undermanned  type of management the right has managed to foist onto all such programs over the years. You can't cut the operational budget for administration to 1/3rd what it should be and then complain that you don't then get prime results. Obamacare is the law. Rather than whine like little girls who spilt their ice cream, the right should get on board and at least try to give it a chance to work like it is supposed to. That would be the adult, logical thing to do--- that's why the right won't do it, and that's why the right lost power and will continue to dwindle until it becomes inconsequential. It's almost there now.

[SHOOTALL]

So if you go back say to the 70's how many times did the right control the house ? they originate spending and only them ? How many times did the right control the Senate ? Both ? or all three compared to the left ?

[BUGEYE]

It says here that upon graduation from med school you get a Doctorate of Medicine

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_degree_do_you_get_in_medical_school

but you have to do internship etc. to receive license to practice privately.

[SHOOTALL]

like I say you finish school then have to learn how to do something

[buffermop]

What it all amounts to is more paperwork and less medical service.

[SHOOTALL]

don't forget mo money and bigger govt.

[Cuts Crooked]

.....and can anyone tell me how often the government gets anything done on schedule or within budget?

[ChungDoQuan]

It says here that upon graduation from med school you get a Doctorate of Medicine

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_degree_do_you_get_in_medical_school

but you have to do internship etc. to receive license to practice privately.

SOME schools call it that--- it's still a masters level degree. A doctorate is a PhD. That's the terminal degree in any field.