Author Topic: Need a good light load in .444 Marlin! (Read 1508 times)

jpshaw · « **on:** November 25, 2012, 05:42:25 AM »

I know, why didn't you get a .45-70? Well I needed a large bore for Louisiana's Primitive season and decided to get the first good 1/20" twist that came out of pawn at the shops. Well this one came out first for $200 in mint condition with a sling, ammo carrier and 3 - 9 x 40 Swift Scope but in .444.

Good enough, so I got it last Spring. Looking for a load of about 325 grains cast at around 1200 to 1300 fps for a good short range thumper. I know I could shoot that out of a .44 maggie but mine is overbore (.432) and 38" twist. The .444 is 20" twist and a lot more accurate. Looking for bullet choice and powder recommendation. Any suggestions?

BTW my main hunting load is a Hornady factory 265 and I don't need to change a thing.

geezer56 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2012, 04:50:34 PM »

I ain't much on light loads, but mine likes the 310 gr Lee cast, at a 430 dia, over a SLIGHTLY compressed load of H335. The book says I can use more, but this works.

.Dirty-.30 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2012, 09:04:55 AM »

If its a hundred yards or less on whitetails, all you nee is to push a 240gr XTP at 1800fps. I do this with my .444 and load the same bullet in my blackpowder rifle via sabot and it does the job. Just my 2cents....

gcrank1 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2012, 10:51:24 AM »

Any cast bullet of the 44 cal. and weight you want that is big enough dia. to fit snuggish in the fully fire-formed case neck and still chamber up and extract cleanly is going to shoot well.
Unique has been around forever and there is always a Unique load for everything, but my choice nowdays is Trail Boss. A full to bullet base load of TB will do what you indicated.

twoshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2012, 01:53:23 PM »

Ok, no disclaimer necessary. I shoot strictly cast through my big bores. I use the Lee 310 gr (no gas check needed), and 20 gr of 2400. From my gun that produces a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 group at 75 yards. I have killed several deer with this load from 30 to 90 yards. It should be around 1400 fps, but I have no chrony to verify. You can go from 18- 22 gr and see what works for you. With 240-250 gr flatbase I use from 15 - 19 gr of Blue Dot.
I highly recommend you seat the bullet out enough to just clear the lands, I let mine shorten up just a little and accuracy disappeared. I finally figured it out, moved the bullets back out and they went back to bullets touching @ 50 yards. Recoil is like shooting a 410

jpshaw · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2012, 02:11:21 AM »

Going to have to try out some of that Trail Boss. Can you reach 1200 fps with a 330 cast bullet with it?

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2012, 06:39:37 PM »

personally, I think Trailboss is a waste of money

very expensive and produce too high pressures.

better options to get you there

gcrank1 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2012, 04:45:03 AM »

There are a number of us here who disagree, and we dont have any vested interest in the company, as far as I know.
Not really expensive here (no idea what the price structure is where you are), its so light & fluffy that the 9oz. bottle kinda throws your thinking off because we are used to one pound. I bought mine in a a 5lb. jug for substantial savings over the small containers too.
Too high pressures? What is your source for that?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2012, 09:32:43 AM »

My own experience with Trail Boss in the 44 cal & larger rifle cartridges is 1300 to 1400 FPS is the maximum velocity you can get. Unique or 700X would be cheaper to use then TB but a mistake loading these pistol powders in large cases can be a disaster. While TB can also generate some fairly high pressure this is mainly a concern with bottleneck cases. I load TB at 100% density in the 45-120 and launch a 500 grain cast slug w/o any sign of excessive pressure; these loads are primed with large Pistol primers and the primers show no indication of overpressure and the cases only require a little neck sizing to reload them.

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:24:53 AM »

Midway price for Trail Boss (minus shipping and hazmat, just the powder jugs) is 14.49/9oz and 99.99/5#,; I bought my 5'er from a local shop for about that, so call it $20/lb.; not too different per pound than many powders. At, say 14.0gr. charge weight out of 7000gr./lb. thats 500 rounds so about 4c each for powder. How is that too expensive?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:45:14 AM »

The alternative to TrailBoss, albeit with the potential for a double/triple charge!

Tim

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

jpshaw · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2012, 02:37:07 PM »

I have some very old Unique somewhere but I liked the 700x too. It looked like 10 grains of 700x behind a 300 grain cast would be about 1250 fps. About what I was looking for.

twoshooter · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2012, 02:53:37 PM »

As stated above, I use 2400 in mine usually. At 20 gr per, a pound loads 350 rounds. 2400 comes in 4 LB canisters, which are about 65$ plus tax. That is about 1400 rounds for $70, or 5 cents per round. You won't be buying powder very often

3 cents per primer, and the cases last for 25-40 loadings. I figure overall, with the cost of brass, the mold, and my wheelweights over the years and lube, that my cost is about 12 cents per round. That is about half the cost of 22mag ammo. Or $2.50 per box of 20

compared to the $30 a box for factory stuff , and works fine for everything smaller than Elk !!

gcrank1 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2012, 04:32:52 PM »

JP, Ive used both Unique and 700X with success in the past (30ish years of use), just be careful not to dbl charge and please dont use the oft recommended overpowder wad to hold the powder back to the primer (too much documented evidence of 'rung' chambers). I was soon out of those powders and needing to replenish, when a friend gifted me half a bottle of TB to try (we shoot mostly cast bullets and vintage calibers/guns). After trying it in several calibers, both handgun and rifle, I bought the TB jug and havent regretted it. Of course, YMMV, but if you get a chance please try some, in the meantime, dance with who ya brung

.

jpshaw · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2012, 12:09:52 AM »

One reason I'm looking at the 700x is that the only place to buy it in our little burg sells only shotshell reloading and they have 700x on hand. Unique and TB is sadly absent. Other then an hour trip to Shreveport I don't want that hazemat charge stuck on me.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2012, 03:56:17 AM »

How about 4227? Ive had very good luck with it in cast bullet, 'reduced velo' loads through the years. It will certainly fill the case up more and provide better load density. Those tiny little loads of fast shotgun powders do need to be oriented to the primer (I lift the muzzle then lower the rifle to shooting position, its fast and repeatable) to keep velo up and the velo spread low (yes, I have chrono'ed different powder positions).
How about some of the slower shotgun powders, are they locally available?

twoshooter · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2012, 02:57:09 PM »

+1, if they have shotgun powder, they should have Blue Dot. 14-18 gr of Blue dot under a 240 gr cast works very well. This is another reason to try to cut down on the number of powders you use, and buy larger lots. Fast powders - Unique, Blue Dot, 2400- as well as some of the new VV powders etc are used in pistol, shotgun, and light cast loads in rifles, and come in 1,4,5, and 8 pound canisters. I may only buy powder every couple of years, that makes the trip less expensive

jpshaw · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2012, 01:47:00 AM »

Will be in Lafayette today and will try to find that large outlet there and get some TB and some Blue dot. Now I need to find a 300 to 330 grain bullet to put in it.

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2012, 03:08:01 AM »

The Hogdon web site has a formula for reducing H4895 for any cartridge listed in its reloading data. The 444 is listed so you could try it .
Good luck
George

Dinny · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2012, 07:09:22 AM »

I am thoroughly impressed with TB powder and often recommend it to others. I hope you're able to find and try some. I somehow ended up with a $20 coupon from Cabelas and used it to cover a hazmat fee the one time I had to order powder online.

Thanks, Dinny

jpshaw · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2012, 01:07:20 AM »

Well I managed a trip to Lafayette Shooters yesterday (Saturday) and it was huge. Had every die, bullet and powder known except one; Trail Boss. Got a bottle of RE15 for my .30-30 and left.

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2012, 04:58:34 PM »

up here, TB is around $39/lb unique is $26.50/lb the "Dots" about $32/lb

it takes about 1.4x more TB to do what unique does, from the load data I can find, and all the pressure data I have found shows higher pressures...

perhaps I misread the pressure data.

jpshaw · « **Reply #22 on:** December 07, 2012, 01:28:22 AM »

I think I will just use the older Unique I have on hand for the moment. When that runs out I can get some 700x or Blue Dot from our local store. Now I need to find a heavy (300 to 320 grain) bullet to stick in front of it. Any suggestion on cast bullets would be appreciated. I don't think a GC would be necessary since I only want to push it to about 1250 fps.

jpshaw · « **Reply #23 on:** December 07, 2012, 12:26:45 PM »

Need opinion on .433 sized bullet. I bought these from Rocky Mountain for my overbore .44 Mag and they are sized large to .433 to try to get that gun to shoot. Now that I have the .444 with normal bore diameter would these be safe to shoot in it are would they be too tight?

nanuk-O-dah-Nort · « **Reply #24 on:** December 07, 2012, 12:55:19 PM »

seat one and chamber it

if it will chamber easily, it will be safe to shoot

try one in a Once Fired case... it should fit in without a lot of pressure, more like a nice slip fit.

then crimp to what you need.

if it will do that, and chamber, Go Shoot it.

the fit in the chamber is far more important than the fit in the bore, as long as it is oversized for the groove diameter.

and the chances of leading are far less when it is a tight fit in the bore.

tturner53 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 08, 2012, 07:01:32 AM »

How about a lead roundball load? Doesn't get much lighter than that. I'm going to take a look at my molds and see if I have anything close. Maybe a .440 RB could be made to work?

gcrank1 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 08, 2012, 10:49:50 AM »

Yep, Ive run .440, 452 and 456 RBs through my .430 sizer to put an easy loading 'shank' on them for 44 Mag, works great. Seat 'em down, or flush at top and spread some lube in the mouth, good to go.