Author Topic: Gas check problem  (Read 918 times)

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Offline ncloader88

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Gas check problem
« on: November 14, 2012, 05:27:27 AM »
So my 444 shoots great!  2 bullets=1 hole :)   Problem is, sometimes the gas checks come off and that means a flier :-\   I have been seating hornady gas checks on lee 310s with a lee .430 push through sizer.  I am pushing them through nose first after hand dipping in lube.  I have a Hornady collet style bullet puller and was considering using this to crimp on the gas checks, but I don't want to squeeze them down too small.  I have heard of people doing something like this before, but it was my understanding that the gas check could not be smaller than the rest of the bullet in order to do it's job.  Is there a danger of serious leading if the gas check is under size?
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Catshooter45

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2012, 11:20:23 AM »
nc,
 
In my experience, if Hornaday's are falling of it's the bullet's base that is too small.  Hornady is very careful with their checks, make them thick and are actually flared at the top so that when they are seated and then sized the check will bite into the bullet.
 
My money is on the Lee mould giving you a bullet with a base that is just a tad small.  Sounds like your sizing procedure is spot on.
 
If you crimp the check on with the collet die it may help.  It doesn't matter if the check is smaller than the rest of the bullet as long as the check is still bigger than the bore.  If the check is bigger, then when fired it will still seal the bore.  See?
 
Using cast bullets isn't always as easy as jacketed.  If everything works, then great.  But when a problem arrises, then you need to start getting technical.  That often means measuring.  Bore size, bullet size, bullet base size, check size, etc.
 
You can also change your casting alloy.  The more lead, the more shrinkage.  So if you add say linotype, the amount of shrinkage will lessen giving you a bigger bullet.  You can also pressure cast, that will often result in a larger bullet.
 
For more data about casting, go here:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php  That is the best site for casting knowledge there is.
 
Hope I've helped a bit.  Good luck.
 
 
Cat
 
 

Offline 26-t

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 12:33:56 PM »
Are you tumble lubing the bullets? I have dipped nose first to the last lube groove and place the bullet nose down to let the lube dry. It works for me ,but a bit of a pain. 26-t

Offline rdlange

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 02:58:36 PM »
May not be the right answer, but some folks superglue the checks on before sizing.  just fyi...
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2012, 03:50:34 PM »
I guess super glue could be a temporary fix ???   My drill will not chuck a 44 cal bullet :(
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline tomme boy

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2012, 03:57:11 PM »
How do you know that they are coming off?

Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 04:14:13 PM »
How do you know that they are coming off?
I have had good accuracy but lots of fliers.  I have also done some relatively close penetration tests on a 7inch poplar and have had two impact points.  One for the bullet and one about an inch and a half to the side with a gas check imbedded just under the bark.  After finding this out I tried a few more and had many with the same result :-\
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 04:31:24 PM »
Are you tumble lubing the bullets? I have dipped nose first to the last lube groove and place the bullet nose down to let the lube dry. It works for me ,but a bit of a pain. 26-t
I am dipping them in my own homemade lube and letting them cool before sizing
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline dk17hmr

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 06:08:19 PM »
May not be the right answer, but some folks superglue the checks on before sizing.  just fyi...

I do this alot on bullets that have a shank diameter that is to small to hold the gascheck after sizing.  A dot of super glue before going through the sizer helps alot.  I find alot of bullets in my berm with gaschecks still on.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 12:13:38 PM »
So, do I understand correctly that you are sizing nose first with the gas check on the base at the same time? If so, how about sizing the bullet then seating the check separately, but base first so it can kinda crimp down around the rebate?
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 12:35:11 PM »
So, do I understand correctly that you are sizing nose first with the gas check on the base at the same time? If so, how about sizing the bullet then seating the check separately, but base first so it can kinda crimp down around the rebate?
  I have considered this but I wasn't sure if it would make much of a difference.  I guess I should try it and see if it will bite better when run through base first.
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline bikerbeans

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 12:42:10 PM »
nc,
 
Are you pushing your 310s  fast enough to need the GC?  Somebody on this forum (two shooter IIRC) is loading 440 grain GC bullets w/o the GCs for their 500 S&W and it works fine for them.
 
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Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 12:47:19 PM »
nc,
 
Are you pushing your 310s  fast enough to need the GC?  Somebody on this forum (two shooter IIRC) is loading 440 grain GC bullets w/o the GCs for their 500 S&W and it works fine for them.
 
BB
I am not sure of the velocity, but I am loading 31 grains of SR4759.  I am estimating about 17-1800 fps.  Is that too fast for a water-dropped wheelweight bullet to be shot without a gc?
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 12:50:17 PM »
Yes.   
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline ncloader88

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2012, 01:10:48 PM »
Good to see you over here Hairy. Stick around, this is a great forum with lots of info about everything ;) I am going to try the super-glue fix and if that gets rid if the fliers then I will know it's a gas check issue and I will get Lee to fix it for me.
30-06 UC, 444 Marlin, 12 gauge, 22lr versa-pak, 223

Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
Good to see you over here Hairy. Stick around, this is a great forum with lots of info about everything ;) I am going to try the super-glue fix and if that gets rid if the fliers then I will know it's a gas check issue and I will get Lee to fix it for me.

Great.  I tried Gorilla glue.  Watch the fumes.  They mess with your eyes.  Nasty stuff!   :-\
Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline tturner53

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2012, 08:33:12 AM »
Gorilla glue expands. I have the same .444 H&R and the same mold, Lee 310. I use Gator Checks, work great and cost less. You can find them on the 'cast boolits' site. I now use Gator Checks on everything. Good stuff. They are nice.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: Gas check problem
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2012, 10:30:31 AM »
FWIW, a gas check that is anything but flat on the base and concentric is going to do no good for accuracy. It has not been unusual for the little copper cups to not seat up quite square and flat during a combined size/lube/GC seat operation. Some have taken to seating GC's separately and followed with a good visual check under a magnifier to be sure all is well.
Its true that Gorilla Glue expands; I would not want it doing so and making a GC  not seat flat. I believe a SuperGlue type product would be much better, but would certainly try changing up my procedure to see if I didnt even have to glue them on.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974