Author Topic: Looking to get 1st AR, how to proceed? (Read 1132 times)

mattri · « **on:** October 17, 2012, 05:36:58 AM »

Looking at picking up my first AR. Will be used for informal target shooting, light varmint work etc at first, and would like to add other uppers for more specific tasks down the road.

Would like to start out fairly economically, and add/modify as I go.

Is there a good place to look for used rifles online? none of our local gun/pawn shops have any.

Where would be a good place to get a new one if I find a decent used rifle?

rickyp · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2012, 10:45:07 AM »

Have you considered building your lower and then buying the uppers you want?
You can find the lower frame for arouond $100 give or take
The basic lower parts kit will run about $40 or so Nothing fance but fuctional.
Then you can find a stock, buffer and spring for about $40
so for around $200 or so you can have a fuctional lower that is ready for the upper of your choice.

I have done 3 this way and I am about $800 in each of them this includes scope, bipod

mattri · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:07:52 AM »

Thanks for the reply. I thought about going that way but I'd rather start with a complete rifle, modify down the road or do a build next time. If I can't find a decent rifle I may just order a lower like you suggested.

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2012, 12:02:04 PM »

Go to Walmart and buy an M4 Colt 6920LE that's what I did.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2012, 12:08:53 PM »

Mattri

There are plenty of good choices out there in the $900 - 1100 range. Bushmaster, Colt, Stag, S&W, DPMS, SIG, RRA, Armalite, etc. A lot of guys have specific makes they like better then others, but frankly most all major names on the market are good, reliable guns.

Couple features I would look at include forged upper and lower, forward assist, dust cover, detachable handle with a picatinny base for ease of scope mounting, and a good trigger. If you want a true mil-spec rifle, Colts have become more widely available at good prices, heck, even the local Wal Mart now sells them here in PA. I particularly like RRA rifles, as many models are available with a good quality two stage target trigger, saving about $200 in future trigger work, an making for a good base for further uppers.

Take a look at the various manufacturers web sites, see whats out there that fits your wants and needs. When you have a couple in mind, a search on sites like Gunbroker.com will usually find a good selection. Your can order one for delivery to your local dealer, who usually charges a $20 - $40 fee for the paperwork. As with anything, stay away from the absolute cheapest rifles you can find, and dont overpay for features you dont need, like propriety designed gas piston models. My favorite all around AR is probably my Bushmaster M4 style carbine , equipped with a scope, back up holographic site, combat sling, and flashlight, as shown below.

Larry

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2012, 12:14:29 PM »

I bought an upper at a pawn shop for $250. Good rifling. I bought a complete lower for $250 new. I bought a complete bolt assembly for $100. So I made mine for $600. I saw a DPMS at Mark's sporting goods in Birmingham recently for $599. I went back the next week and they had sold out of them, they had 14 of them. Their's had the rail on top but no sights. So you would have to buy sights or a scope mount and scope. Still not bad. I found out that Mark's is the largest gun seller in the southeast. His prices are as cheap as Walmart for the same items.

luckydawg13 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2012, 12:29:35 PM »

i went with RRA so far so good

theblackcloud · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:09:47 AM »

just picked up an M&P15T. Its an amazing gun. i paid $1100 for mine, but i've seen them as low as $975. With the M&P line, make sure it's a newer one. the first few years, S&W just baught parts and assembled them. the new ones are all made by S&W, and the barrels are made by T/C.
I'm Not saying the first ones are junk, its just that the newer ones have a better quality control. just my 2 cents.
i would just stay away from "plastic" lowers. for the little you would save in money, it wouldn't be worth it. the alluminum frames are much more sturdy, and the finishes on them matches the uppers much better

mattri · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:48:55 AM »

Thanks for the replies. I actually just picked up a DPMS in .223. I'm very happy with it so far, have a couple hundred rounds of different kinds of ammo through it and its shooting great. No failures or jams, holding about 2MOA out to 100 and I have hits on a gong out to 200.

Now I need a 7.62x39- if anyone has a line on one, preferably used and economical let me know. Not looking for anything fancy.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:33:33 PM »

Now that you have one as a platform it can be pretty simple to just have one rifle and swap out the upper. http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=308
You would pop the pins and put the new upper on. It would also need different mags (possibly increased power springs in mag but read below on that). http://www.44mag.com/category/7_62_x_39_ar_15_magazine

There are a few fellows here with 7.62x39. Lloyd Smale is one that comes to mind. If he doesn't see the thread and chime in, I don't imagine he would mind if you pm him about them. Some folks have a little trouble with the x39 feeding in an ar. I believe Lloyd has one that goes along without a hitch. I am guessing the ones that don't feed right are because of a magazine issue, but as I said, just guessing. So it's better you talk with someone who fools around with them.
Good luck.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:37:27 PM »

if i had the money to blow,
i'd go pick up a rock river arms
16 " varminter

and if i'd been pretty i'd have been a gigilo

mattri · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:19:45 AM »

Yeah looking for a complete upper in 7.62x39 sorry to not be clear.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:58:42 AM »

Yep, there are sevaral uppers available now. 30 Rem AR (a little better than 30-30 or 7.62x39 ballistics). 6.8 SPC, a good flat deer size cartridge. 6.5 Grendel which as better down range accuracy and energy than the 6.8 SPC. Of course the 7.62x39. The 450 Socom and the 458 Bushmaster, both in the 45-70 catagory, and the 50 Beowolf, also in the 45-70 or 50 S&W catagory. They also make a 9mm upper.

The 6.8 is available in factory ammo now. Remingtion is supplying the 30 Rem AR. Of course the 7.62x39 is available. The others are not quite as popular yet. The 30 Rem AR is a necked down 458 Bushmaster, since they own Bushmaster now. The 6.5 was just recently SAMII specked so it should be availabe in factory ammo soon.

You can also get a 22LR adapter bolt or a complete 22LR upper.

mattri · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2012, 05:43:19 AM »

I would definitely consider a 300 blackout but would prefer a 7.62x39 for the cheap ammo. I do reload, and will prob build a 450 down the road but will look for a cheaper 7.62 for now.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2012, 02:33:06 AM »

A couple more options are the 5.45x39 that is a little cheaper on average than it's big brother.
Also a 22lr conversion for your current .223 barrel. Just remove the bolt, put the conversion in and change the mag. Make sure to clean before going back to center fire. A little spring clipping on the conversion may be required for slower ammo but they usually give 2 springs with the kits. After a brick or two it's a good idea to clean it and shoot a few center fire rounds to blow the gas tube out, then you can switch back.

mattri · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2012, 03:13:37 AM »

Good call on the conversions, I'll definitely check them out. This will also be used to cull some deer around the house, which will require a .243 or above.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2012, 03:44:35 AM »

Spend the money on a good trigger right now, the stock units would not make Daisy proud. If you really plan on multi uppers research the difference between commercial and military lowers. Pin diameters, stock threrading and a few other differences. I am honestly unsure about what all is involved, but from what I understand Colt's are the exception to many AR rules.

You may consider buying the odd unit first, 6.8 spc for instance. It would be factory warranted, and as likely to need some sort of help. Later picking the 5.56 upper that best meets your needs on the cheap.

mattri · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2012, 04:45:02 AM »

Appreciate the good tips. I have a comple ar in 223 now, was just planning on getting the 7.62x39 upper and swapping between it and the 223 upper for now.

kodiak6579 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2012, 01:06:20 AM »

I just got into the AR game myself and at first wanted the same thing you did, an AR in 7.62x39. Good round and plenty of cheap ammo I told myself. So i got myself a complete lower (New Frontier from Joe Bobs). I got the upper from Model 1 Sales and started looking for a BCG and magazines to finish it off. Well, that's when I started to second guess myself. The BCG used for 7.62 is a proprietary bolt and, as the base of 7.62 is wider than the base of .223, is thinner in several critical locations which has led to bolt failures in this caliber. Also, magazines are not easy to find, not cheap and usually aren't reliable at full capacity due to the taper of the cartridge.

All this led to me ditching the 7.62 upper and getting myself a complete upper in 300 blackout from Sota Arms. If you reload, this round is a no brainer. All you would need is a new barrel, that's it. Everything else, bolt, magazine, even brass (after resizing) is compatible between the two cartridges and magazines can be used to full capacity. Cartridge performance is comparable to a .30-30 when loaded supersonic and it can take bullets up to 220 grains when loaded subsonic.

I've had a boatload of fun with this round so far and the entire rifle cost about $600 to build. Good luck!

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2012, 03:47:36 AM »

For you guys who may know. Why did a 223 necked up to a 243, 25, or 260 caliber not catch on? Seems like a 243 with lots of bullets available would have been a natural. Bullet would travel faster than the 300 blackout.

mattri · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:05:35 AM »

The 6x45 is pretty popular isn't it?

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2012, 09:03:31 AM »

It was made, the 6x45. It has good balistics. It was never adapted or made mainstream. It does seem like a natural since no mag changes, No bolt or carrier change, only a barrel change. It has enough energy to 250 yards for deer. (I've read that over 900 ft lbs of energy is needed to kill a deer). So it has about 1,000 ft/lbs at 250 yards with an 85 gr bullet. Makes one wonder why the military didn't change to this route.

I've read that larger diameter cartridges of course require a bolt change. However, I read that to fit the AR-platform, they are made thinner, so they break easier. How true is this?

JimP. · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2012, 05:37:31 PM »

For the upper in 7.62x39, C-Products makes the magazines you need, mine was jam city till i purchased the C-Products mag. JimP.