« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: How much is too much?  (Read 1306 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline evan1395

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • If you're gonna be dumb, Ya gotta be tough!
How much is too much?
« on: September 11, 2012, 11:26:46 AM »
So I ordered some more ammo from Bitter root valley. I really liked there 405 grain flat nose rated at 1400fps. I tried another kind from them. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-905
These are rated at 1900 fps, which for a flat nose is pretty good yeah? I was wondering what JFP was an abbreviation for? Are these loads too hot for my Handi Rifle?
Logged
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 11:36:47 AM »
JFP= Jacketed Flat Point
JSP= Jacketd Soft Point
PSP= Pointed Soft point (jacketed)
JHP= Jacketd Hollow Point.
FMJ= Full metal Jacket
SJHP= Semi Jacketed Hollow Point.
LGC= Lead with a copper gas check.
 
Logged

Offline LaOtto222

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3828
  • Gender: Male
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 11:43:14 AM »
My understanding is that the Handi rifle can safely handle Lever action level loads. 1900 fps with a 405 grain bullet is getting into the upper end of the lever action loads. So I would say they will be OK in your Handi rifle. That is my opinion. Some have loaded heavier than that for their Handi rifles, but I would call it good at 1900 fps.

JFP = Jacketed Flat Point

Good Luck and Good Shooting
Logged
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 12:06:50 PM »
Don't believe the 1900fps spec, read the reviews. Sounds like either CTD or the mfr made a mistake, that's equivilent to Buffalo Bore or Garrett 45-70 ammo, but in reality since they don't mention a minimum firearm requirement, it's a trapdoor load.

Tim

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-905

Quote
dissapointed - 10/1/2011
Reviewer: Marlin 1894

Ordered 200 rnds of this stuff. First inspection of bullets revealed cases are longer than specs, approx .100" too long. Lever action on marlin 1894 won't close without being forced. Was going to live with it until shot it today, 1900 fps would have been nice if true, checked with my Chrony, only got 1440 fps, very disappointed. Would accept a slightly lower than rated speed, but not this drastic.. Sending back what I haven't shot.


Quote
weak charge - 12/19/2011
Reviewer: KC

Good bullets, good brass. However, I pulled five bullets and weighted the powder. 33gr. That is terrible. I can't imagine this stuff shoots over 1200 ft/s. To get 1900 ft/s this stuff should have almost twice the powder. Shake the ammo and you can tell it is half filled with powder. For 1900 ft/s the case would have to be full. Rather than return the ammo I'm going to pull the rest of the bullets and reload. I also don't understand why they would cheap out on the powder? It is one of the least expensive components... Why?
Logged
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline twoshooter

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1259
  • Gender: Male
  • Remember the Starfish......
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 12:07:56 PM »
I am betting the 1900 fps ARE NOT 405 gr, but 300gr. That is about the speed of the std 300 gr HP loads. They would work just fine. I will also bet that out of the 32" barrel they are over 2000fps.
Logged
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 12:27:26 PM »
Our Handi rifles currently made are safe for any loading you can buy commercially. Even to top loadings... BUT I'll bet you cry uncle before the H&R does. ;) 

It's a light rifle, and these top loadings really kick! ;)

CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline evan1395

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • If you're gonna be dumb, Ya gotta be tough!
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 12:28:03 PM »
Yeah amazingly, alot of people are saying that about BVAC ammo period, not just these .45-70 loads. But alrighty, as long as i'm still ok at the "1900" fps 400 grain loads. Hell, I might make these my permanent loads from now on, depending on the results this weekened
Logged
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline bikerbeans

  • Trade Count: (168)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • BANDIT - North American Snake Hound
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 12:53:56 AM »
There's a fellow in Da U.P. that hand loads Rem 405 SPs @ 1900 FPS for his 45-70 Handi.  They are reported to work just fine and I don't hear him complaining about the recoil. ;D
 
BB
Logged
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline EMC45

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 06:22:34 AM »
I loaded a good bit of 405gr. cast Lee bullets over 50+gr. Varget a few years ago and they were STIFF! They made my teeth hurt and blurred my vision. This is before I had my chronograph so I am not sure how fast they were. I stopped loading them like that and settled on 14.5gr. Unique. I killed 2 deer with the Unique load and they died nicely. That load kicks about like a 20ga. birdload.
Logged

Offline evan1395

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • If you're gonna be dumb, Ya gotta be tough!
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2012, 07:36:55 AM »
rWould you guys recommend a 405 flat nose for larger game (i.e Bleack Bears and Deer). Especially these "1900" fps loads?
Logged
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 08:52:23 AM »
Quote from: evan1395 on September 13, 2012, 07:36:55 AM
rWould you guys recommend a 405 flat nose for larger game (i.e Bleack Bears and Deer). Especially these "1900" fps loads?
Absolutely!!

These loads are good for anything on
this continent!
If you need a real tough bullet, Hornady makes a 350g RN they pushed at similar velocities penetrates like no tomorrow while still offering some expansion.

CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Flynmoose

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 786
  • Gender: Male
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 05:35:55 PM »
If the ammo is JFP, meaning full metal jacket, you may not be able to hunt with them. It would be a good idea to check the game regs where you intend to hunt, they may require a lead or expanding bullet, better to find out before you shoot something. Good choice of caliber, steeped in tradition and it works!
FM
Logged
Dear God please protect our troops, especially the snipers.

Offline Spanky

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (96)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4627
  • Gender: Male
  • USMC Semper Fidelis
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2012, 06:14:18 PM »
Quote from: Flynmoose on September 13, 2012, 05:35:55 PM
If the ammo is JFP, meaning full metal jacket, you may not be able to hunt with them.FM

 
How the heck did you get "full metal jacket" out of "JFP"? I always thought it was FMJ. ;)
 
 
 
Spanky
Logged

Offline jkpq45

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2012, 06:14:26 AM »
Not totally off-topic:

TMJ = Total Metal Jacket (as opposed to FMJ = Full Metal Jacket, as some manufacturers have lead exposed on the base of their FMJs and TMJs do not.)
Logged

Offline evan1395

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • If you're gonna be dumb, Ya gotta be tough!
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 03:58:42 PM »
These loads actually have a bit of the tip still exposed. So I guess its not a FULL metal jacket. But it is jacketed to an extent. Thanks for the heads up moose about the hunting regulations. Never even took it into consideration it being a jacket round. Do fish and game wardens ask to see your ammo alot of the time?
Logged
This is grade A, 100% pure Colombian cocaine, ladies and gentlemen. Disco crap. Pure as the driven snow....

Offline Jimbo47

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Gender: Male
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2012, 02:20:16 AM »
In 55 years of hunting and being in the field I've never had a GW check my ammo to see it it was legal.   It's more of an ethical question on using FMJ ammo, but it is still the law in most, if not all states, and it's more in the way of common sense, and to give respect to the animals we hunt, and to take the animal humainly.
Logged
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline cwlongshot

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (158)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9907
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting, Hunting, the Outdoors & ATVs
Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2012, 02:45:19 AM »
Quote from: evan1395 on September 14, 2012, 03:58:42 PM
These loads actually have a bit of the tip still exposed. So I guess its not a FULL metal jacket. But it is jacketed to an extent. Thanks for the heads up moose about the hunting regulations. Never even took it into consideration it being a jacket round. Do fish and game wardens ask to see your ammo alot of the time?

Sounds like you could be confusing these bullets...

FMJ bullets as previously described are covered in a jacket many leaving the base of exposed lead. (NOT ALL BTW) another name for these when used in semi auto firearms is "BALL" the jacket is very thick on the order of 5-10 times as thick... A TMJ is a newer term again as mentioned with the advent of "lead free" loadings. It may in some cases also have a very thick lacket BUT in others its simply thinly covered to contain the lead within.

A SP, HJSP or HP bullet is also jacketed, but the jacket of quite thin, basically serves to stop the lead from staying in the barrel. It also allows the manufacturer to use soft lead that will expand.

Do not confuse these pistol bullets with rifle bullets. Rifle bullets operate under higher pressures and higher velocities. There jackets are tapered, thicker at the base and thinner at the tip to allow expansion. These again have FMJ bullets also these bullets utilize very thick jackets.

If you knew and understood these things, I mean no disrespect, your comment in your last post, made me think you may not know these things.

CW
Logged
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »