Author Topic: Witches Brew for Cleaning?  (Read 3627 times)

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Offline ButlerFord45

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« on: January 01, 2003, 01:59:44 AM »
I've tried several, the Murphy's oil soap, alcohol, peroxide was so frightning I was afraid to even pour it down the drain, much less put it on my guns!  Looked like it would have to be thinned just to be brushed on!  It may work miricles, but untill I SEE some one do it to their guns, I ain't touching it!!

Anybody got other concotions they's share??


Butler Ford
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2003, 04:06:37 AM »
Windex! In the spray bottle! Actually I use the cheap "no name brand" stuff from the discount stoes. Werks and it's cheap! 8)
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Offline Mason Stillwell

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2003, 04:51:54 AM »
Super hot water and liquid dish soap. Heating the metal will cause it to dry faster.

This is all I do.



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Offline Cheyenne Ranger

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2003, 02:01:39 PM »
Do you blow the water out or just let the heat dry it off?  and I'm betting you oil all the metal to keep it from rusting?  Spray oil to get into all the tight places?
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Offline Cottonwood

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Re: Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2003, 02:30:44 PM »
Quote from: ButlerFord45
I've tried several, the Murphy's oil soap, alcohol, peroxide was so frightning I was afraid to even pour it down the drain, much less put it on my guns!  Looked like it would have to be thinned just to be brushed on!  It may work miricles, but untill I SEE some one do it to their guns, I ain't touching it!!

Anybody got other concotions they's share??


Butler Ford


Iffin you use peroxide with your cleaner you could ruin your firearms since peroxide is an oxidizer and will harm the metal.

But if you just use Murphy's Oil Soap, alcohol, water mixed equally in 3 parts you can use this with no problem.  I have used this for about 10 years now on both my BPCR shooting irons and my muzzleloaders with NO PROBLEMS period.  Sure beats what they sell in the stores at a much higher price.

Offline Mason Stillwell

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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2003, 02:30:53 PM »
Wipe down the gun good. The heated metal will dry the tight places then add Balistol. NO RUST !!!!!!!!! Works Great.


This is what I do.


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Offline savageT

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Re: Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2003, 03:17:21 PM »
Quote from: The Montanan
Quote from: ButlerFord45
I've tried several, the Murphy's oil soap, alcohol, peroxide was so frightning I was afraid to even pour it down the drain, much less put it on my guns!  Looked like it would have to be thinned just to be brushed on!  It may work miricles, but untill I SEE some one do it to their guns, I ain't touching it!!

Anybody got other concotions they's share??


Butler Ford


Iffin you use peroxide with your cleaner you could ruin your firearms since peroxide is an oxidizer and will harm the metal.

But if you just use Murphy's Oil Soap, alcohol, water mixed equally in 3 parts you can use this with no problem.  I have used this for about 10 years now on both my BPCR shooting irons and my muzzleloaders with NO PROBLEMS period.  Sure beats what they sell in the stores at a much higher price.


QUESTION..........
Is there a good reason for using Murphy's Oil soap? Instead couldn't you use a liquid dish detergent like Dawn or Ivory?  That's what I use for cleaning my barrel in the laundry tub w/ hot water.

P.S.  Is this stuff supposed to be a lubricant for bullet patches also?

savageT
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Offline ButlerFord45

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2003, 03:26:11 PM »
Savage, Mason said a Magic word as far as I'm concerned..."Ballistol".  It mixes with water, so if ya get water down in the action, the Ballistol will mix with it. When the water evaporates the Ballistol is still there. I've found better cleaners, but never a better general purpose gun lube.
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He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
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tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline savageT

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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2003, 04:12:53 PM »
Thanks....but I've been using that stuff for some time now.  Windex cleaner just before I spray w/ Ballistol.  Some say that's ALL you need to clean!

Just wanted to find out what the heck is so darned special about Murphy's Oil Soap in the Witches Brew(instead of common, grease cutting detergents). There are so many commercial black powder solvents on the market today that are also patch lubricants too.

savageT
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Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.

Offline ButlerFord45

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2003, 04:18:41 PM »
:grin:  If ya promise not to tell my secret, the best cleaner for BP fouling is the dishwashing soap you just mentioned and hot water.  :grin:
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline KING

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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2003, 05:18:12 PM »
:D   For what its worth guys,I never use peroxide either in any concotion fer cleaning guns.  The one I use is out of one of the BPCR howto books by matthews.  I thinks its 90 percent,alcohol,in a windex spray bottle,and then some MURPHYS OIL SOAP,AND a little water.  I have not had any problems with this mixture yet,and it cleans real well.  Just dont let peroxide get near yer bbls.  King  After cleaning I also willoil the bore with FP10 . :)
THE ONLY FEMALE THAT I TRUST IS A LABRADOR.......AND SHE DONT SNOORE,AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY COOKING...THE ONLY GODS THAT EXIST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER,AND 19 IN THE MAG.......

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2003, 05:23:31 PM »
Ok, King, I gotta know, what is FP10?

I have a real fondness for Mr Matthews books.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline KING

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2003, 06:50:13 PM »
:D Butlerford  It is called Firepower FP-10 lubricant elite.  It is made by MUSCLE PRODUCTS CORP.,188 freeport ed.,Butler,Pa  16001  It is the best stuff that I have found for firearms bar none.  About 12 years ago the company got ahold of my becasue of my firearms experiance,and the fact that I was doing all the departments fireaarms in this area. They wanted a good test done on thier product.  At the time i was doing allthe ara departments firearms,handguns,rifles and shotguns,and was looking for a good cleaning agent,and one that was good for lubrication also,  I ended up with 5 free cases of this stuff cause they were so happy with me and the results that i had obtained.  It is not used excludivly on the departments firearms.  It is the best we have found.  Gieve em a call,and they will be happy to sent ya some sample packets.  I ran ouut mine and I had over 500 of em. Gave em away when i did an officers gun for him.  Great people to work with.  You will love it.im sure.let me know how ya come out,I have to order some more also...King
THE ONLY FEMALE THAT I TRUST IS A LABRADOR.......AND SHE DONT SNOORE,AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY COOKING...THE ONLY GODS THAT EXIST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER,AND 19 IN THE MAG.......

Offline John Y Cannuck

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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2003, 01:52:15 PM »
All I ever used in my shotgun, is dish detergent, and boiling water right out of the kettle. I get the bore so hot it's hard to hold. Dries almost instantly.
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Offline Ironhand

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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2003, 07:13:50 AM »
While i am not a "Soot Lord" i ahve been shooting Black Powder in muzzleloading for over 15 years. What i have found to be the best ,as many have said, is hot boiling water and a light dish soap, i use Dawn. The hotter the water the better. That and a good tight cleaning jag works very well with all my BP firearms.
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Offline Calamity Jane

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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2003, 09:17:59 AM »
I too use soap 'n' hot water.

Ya'd be amazed how many  folk figger sommit's no good unless it's 1 - expensive, 2 - difficult to make, or 3 - has a brand name on it  :shock:

Danged good thang these folks waz 'round back in the ol' days or they'd be plumb outta luck!  :-D
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Offline Rifled Slug

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2003, 03:57:52 AM »
:D Howdy,
I use good ole Ballistol and water to clean with and straight Ballistol to lube with . :-)  Once you get you guns " seasoned " it gets easier and easier .   :wink:
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Offline Old Cane

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Witches Brew for Cleaning?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2003, 08:46:13 AM »
Ok, here's my situation and what I need to do as I see it. I need to know where I am wrong and this is one area my wife can't help with. I just got a bunch of BP sub loads, some Ten-X, some Cor-Bon. I have a 73 that I've been shooting smokeless with. I'm sure I will order some ballistol soon but I'd like to shoot maybe this weekend so I'd like to use stuff I alreay have or can get quick and cheap. Here's what I think I need to do:

1) spray and swab with brake cleaner (have) inside and out

2) wash good with hot water and dish soap (have)

3) spray down good with Murphy/alcohol/water mix(have).....or WD-40 (also have)?

Shoot and repeat steps 2 & 3.

Now say I've got all this right for once (ha!), when I do get Ballistol can I just start using it for lube or does it all need to be stripped again? I'm trying to figure what works with what.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2003, 02:01:47 PM »
Cane I'm not a fan of the Murphy soap, but there are enough that swear by it that there must be something to it.  So with that as a given, the plan sounds like a winner to me.  While I've decided that Ballistol is the best stuff made for a lube and preservative, there is nothing better than hot water and dish detergent for cleaning up BP fouling.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Old Cane

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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2003, 01:43:46 AM »
Thanks Butler. Just want to go on the cheap/quick side right now.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2003, 01:49:52 AM »
I have decided that to make myself sound less miserly I prefer to call using cheap stuff that works..frugal!!   :-D
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Old Cane

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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2003, 04:19:56 AM »
Good idea. I may change my login to Old Frugal.

Offline Old Cane

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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2003, 07:42:48 AM »
Anybody else like WD-40 for BP gun lube?

Offline fredj

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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2003, 08:51:23 AM »
Quote from: savageT
Just wanted to find out what the heck is so darned special about Murphy's Oil Soap in the Witches Brew(instead of common, grease cutting detergents). There are so many commercial black powder solvents on the market today that are also patch lubricants too.
savageT


 SavageT- The Murphy's is used because it's a soap not a detergent, as the detergents residues are often as alkaline as BP residue and equally
bad practice as the hot water.
fredj

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2003, 11:02:42 AM »
fredj  I understand your reasoning on the detergent, I believe it is sound, but incomplete.  My question is the hot water?  Is it because it melts out the "seasoning" in the bore?  If that's the case, would you consider this: most waterheaters some from the store come with the temps set in the 120 degree range, and most of us still have to add a little cold to make it bareable.  Average temp of bath water is 110, and a hot bath will be around 115.  So I would be using bath temp water to clean the gun, and mayby 120 to rinse.  Would any seasoning in a barrel liquify to be washed away at these temps?  If that were the case would it not start runing out the barrel after firing just a few rounds?  Or it there some other reason for not using hot water that I just don't know about?
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline savageT

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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2003, 11:26:09 AM »
Butler,
Forgive me for jumping in.   I think the issue with Hot water is that once  it flushes away the burned powder and carbonacious materials, as soon as the barrel is exposed to air, it immediately begins to rust.  The heat of the water while helping to dry the water out also promotes oxidation. So if I hear fredj correctly, stay away from the hot water, use an acid based solution like cider vinegar to neutralize the basic salts left behind and rinse with cool water.  Hope we got this right.  Don't forget the water displacing alcohol and lubricant too.

JimT
savageT........Have you hugged a '99 lately?

Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2003, 02:07:05 PM »
Hey nothing to forgive, finally getting an enlightening conversation with more than one point of view!!
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline ButlerFord45

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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2003, 04:34:03 AM »
For the record, I really and truely believe that a well cleaned gun immediately dried and oiled will last several lifetimes with no noticeable harm.   For the sake of discussion I add:
     I've always been one for tinkering and trying, and I've given a lot of the cleaning "tricks" a try just to see if it works.  I want my guns to last, and run trouble free, but I enjoy no part of cleaning a gun other than being done, but I do want it done well.  I'm not looking for shortcuts, just what does the job with minimum effort.  I don't use commercial products because of the volume required.  On one of those to rare months that the days work out with my work schedule, I get to shoot every weekend, 4 guns x 4 weekends, that's a minimum of 16 cleanings, side matches, take a guest, provide a gun for someone else, practice session, load development, and just other shooting starts to make for a whole lot of gun cleaning in a months time.
     My reasoning for using dish detergent and hot water are: Hot  water cleans better than cold, we can work this out with physics or by reasoning why would the have increasing temperature selections on the washing machine.  The increase in temperature also aids in drying for exactly the same reason that it cleans better, all those excited little molicules.  Soap is merely a surfactant, breaking down the surface tension of the water allowing it to be "wetter".  Dish detergent, while not adding abrasives for "scrubing power" adds things to the soap that hold the loosened particles in suspension as opposed to allowing them to seperate into clumps of crud.  I'm sure most of us old folks remember Ivory soap and that nasty ring on the sides of the bathtub and how it went away when they started adding immulsifying agents to soaps. Same deal.
     I do not believe that guns cleaned with solvents are as well cleaned, not necessarily because solvents won't clean as well, just that $2-$3 for a 4oz bottle and human nature we don't use suffecient volume for complete washing away of residue.  While the residue of the cleaning solvent may be harmless to the metal, the particulate with it is not.  It is 1 abrasive, 2 accumulates to hold moisture, and 3 there has never been a brush or patch fine enough that I could get the "stuff" out of the cracks and corners.
     I don't use counteracting agents, ie vinegar, because instead of going from one "bad thing", alkaline residue from black powder to three.  First being the small amounts of the B P residue that was not reached by the vinegar due to the physical properties of a wet thing trying to mix with a dry thing, second the reaction between acids and bases produce salts.  While I do not know if these particular salts are conducive to corrosion or not and while I like to tinker, I'm not going to try this experiment, because I can avoid them.  Third, the addition of excess acid, the probability of my adding just enough acid for a balanced equation is nil, and we know the results of acid on metal, otherwise why would we always be grabbing that oily rag after someone has handled our guns?
     I don't use alcohol for water displacement because I think alcohol is a solvent for natural fats, the basis of the "seasoning" obtained from using natural lubes.  
     The length of time between cleaning and drying, and lubing is small enough that what amount of natural ozidation might occur would take longer to have any noticeable effect than it would to completly wear out a gun and still be less harmful than inadequate cleaning.
     I may be all wet, but this is what I was thinking when I started cleaning this way a bit over thirty years ago.  I have still to see any adverse effect.  I'm still not too set in my ways to change, it just takes a little more prodding.
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline KING

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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2003, 09:48:51 AM »
:D BP45.   The simpler things are,the better.  I still use the alcohol,murphys oil soap,and water mixture, fer my BPCR .  Fer my normal mzzle loaders,hot water and murphys oil soap or plain soap work just fine followed by some oil.  I had to put  the murphys in there cause I know how much ya really like that stuff,seeing that ya gots stock in it and all....................................................King :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D
THE ONLY FEMALE THAT I TRUST IS A LABRADOR.......AND SHE DONT SNOORE,AND DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT MY COOKING...THE ONLY GODS THAT EXIST ARE THOSE THAT HAVE ONE IN THE CHAMBER,AND 19 IN THE MAG.......

Offline T. Two Dogs

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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2003, 12:14:37 PM »
I used the three equal parts, Hydrogen peroxide, alcohol, Murphy's oil soap for quite some time -- I have not experienced any problems.  I have used it as a quick "refreshner" while shooting for extended periods of time.  It does remove the majority or "gunk" left in the barrrel.  HOWEVER, iif you use that mixture and only that mixture as a cleaner and expect no rust, you will be disappointed.  As a first run to loosen up and begin the cleaning process after a day shooting, it is fine.  I then use regular dishwashing liquid and HOT water, followed by Bore Butter to protect from rust.  Bores are still like new - after 10 years of shooting.  Just my experience - yours may differ.