Author Topic: I need recommendations on a rifle/caliber for target/varmint hunting? (Read 4809 times)

Bigboar · « **on:** July 04, 2012, 04:23:12 AM »

I need recommendations on a rifle/caliber  for target/varmint hunting?  These a some of the rifles I have been looking at.  I would like to keep it to around $800.00.  I have been looking a .223 Rem. Or 22/250 rem.  These are some of the rifles I have been looking at; CZ 527 Varmint, RUGER M77 Hawkeye Predator, Remington 700 VLS and maybe a Kimber 84 Pro Varmint

Any input would be appreciated,

bigboar

Buckskin · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2012, 04:41:45 AM »

You are going to get a lot of different answers here, so I will give you my preference too. I have a couple 223's in AR platform one is a Remington R-15 set up out to 400 yards. Great shooter (<MOA) a very fun gun to shoot and great for coyotes. I also have a 204 set up on the Encore platform. If I were to choose between the two calibers for a bolt gun I would take the 204 hands down. There is something to be said for being able to drive a 32 grain bullet to 4200 ft/sec, watch it impact through the scope and shoot less than MOA with every powder and bullet I have tried with it.... Although it does have a favorite powder/bullet combo that has been shooting .5's...

45-70.gov · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2012, 12:39:56 PM »

if you have to ask

223 or 22lr....without any doubt

they are the 2 most shot rounds for some good reasons

ARs are quite accurate

HOWA or savage are nice option for the money

hillbill · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2012, 12:51:42 PM »

all good advice here, 223 is hard to beat. cheap to shoot and good bullet and powder availibility.im leaning towards that also.however i may just choose a 6.5x55 or 260 rem.easy to load for and only a few bullets to choose from and they all work well.

hardertr · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2012, 01:04:36 PM »

My choices are:

Savage 93 in 17HMR for daytime use. It will take down anything up to (and probably beyond) a coyote out to 200 yards.
I personally prefer the 93R17BTSV because I LOVE the thumbhole stock. Spend the extra $400 on a good scope.

For night time, I have an AR (5.56) set up with a red dot (Bushnell TRS) and red lens spot with a pressure switch. The night time shots present themselves pretty quickly, and I've been able to take shots my brother hasn't with his bolt gun and low power scope.

Ladobe · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2012, 05:01:55 PM »

Easy answer for a cartridge good to go for both serious target and varmints is a 222 Rem. They won all the BR matches for years for good reason, their inherent accuracy. Plenty of firepower for any varmint or predator.

Platform to buy one on comes down to personal choice - there have been many excellent choices to choose from.

My current is a full custom Sako L461 with a 25" Douglas premium barrel, reworked trigger and Sako custom shop thumbhole stock. Even with its sporter contour barrel it shoots bug holes.

omegahunter · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2012, 12:31:12 AM »

Cartridge will come down to reload/factory, shot distance expected, and amount you are going to shoot. I would go .223 if shots were expected under 350 yards and high-volume shooting. If you expect longer distance, lower-volume shooting I would suggest stepping up to a .243. If you are only going to shoot factory and don't have deep pockets I would go with the .223.

On the rifle, I would be very tempted right now (if I needed another rifle) to get a T/C Venture. Or you could get one of their new super-ugly Dimensions and have any of those calibers you want at your disposal!

Bugflipper · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:24:43 AM »

When I first got into varmint hunting I got a .223 and 22-250. The plan was 300 and under, .223 and over that, 22-250. Well it really never worked out for me. No pristine low cropped fields out my way. Shots over 300 were about impossible besides winter and early spring. Winter was out because that is meat and pelt hunting time. I use 17 centerfires for fur. The Spring window was about 3 weeks before the vegetation was to high. The majority of my long shots were in the 200-275 range. The 22-250 was a heavy barrel so I tended to carry the 223 more often and learned that 350-400 was still very doable with a ballistics chart on the stock. So I sold the 22-250.
The .223 is one of the cheapest centerfire rounds to shoot. For a bolt with an $800 cap it would be hard for me to pass on a CZ and a used leupold vx-2 or 3. Plenty of accuracy out of the .223. Sub 1/2" groups are the norm with a cz. For a precision reloader sub 1/4" groups are the norm. If you want to save money on the rifle, plenty of folks out there get sub 1/2" groups out of their savage varmint rifles in .223.

For a semi the free floated ARs can be 1/2" or under as well. You are pushing the budget without optics though.

LunaticFringeInc · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:09:25 PM »

Except for some special circumstances, I think the 223 is probably about the best all round varmint caliber out there on the market inside 400 yards on Coyotes or smaller targets.

Sourdough · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2012, 09:54:58 AM »

.223 has my vote. Ammo availability is a big thing with most folks. If you don't hand load .223s are everywhere and cheap compared to other calibers. A lot of remanufactors load some really good premium bullets like the Nosler Ballistic Tip and the A-Max. I reload but these are just too easy to pick up at the shooting supply store and I really like them. They shoot well through my Handi Rifle, my Savage, and my T/Cs.

cjclemens · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2012, 01:04:11 PM »

You cant go wrong with either .17 HMR or .223. Both are fairly inexpensive and offer a wide variety of ammunition options. You'll also find a lot of different rifle makes and models available in both.

twoshooter · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2012, 04:15:50 PM »

For someone getting into it to start the 223 is hard to beat, ammo plentiful and cheap, also easy reloader. Of the usual suspects, I would say Savage, they are butt ugly but shoot like a dream and they are not very expensive. Get a reasonable scope , I would say a 4-12X is about the best. Any higher power and they start with heat mirage etc, and you need a really good rest and lots of practice to be able to use the extra magnification.

casca1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2012, 04:41:19 PM »

hell, if you can read your print size- you ought to get a firearm that can reach out,
looks like you have little use of a scope. if your eyes are that good anything from a 223 to 50 mg
should work for you.

But I really like the 22-250
casca

D Fischer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:20:19 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on July 04, 2012, 05:01:55 PM

Easy answer for a cartridge good to go for both serious target and varmints is a 222 Rem. They won all the BR matches for years for good reason, their inherent accuracy. Plenty of firepower for any varmint or predator.

Platform to buy one on comes down to personal choice - there have been many excellent choices to choose from.

My current is a full custom Sako L461 with a 25" Douglas premium barrel, reworked trigger and Sako custom shop thumbhole stock. Even with its sporter contour barrel it shoots bug holes.

And the winner is! To bad there are not many, if any, factory rifles available in 222 Rem. You wand to watch the bullet hit? This one will do it with a sporter rifle. I had a 222 Rem and an L461 in 223 Rem at the same time. @@@ wa much more accurate and i could watch the bullet's hit. The 223 was plenty accurate but couldn't stay with the 222.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** August 28, 2012, 06:26:57 AM »

a 223 for varnit hunting is a blance of power and recoil. It is one of the rounds that in a varmit weight gun it recoils low enough that you can see the animal as it gets hit. Often a red mist. Some say no big deal but if hunting alone the shooter can often see where his shots are going and correct if nessary. If you have 800 bucks buy a 700 ADL and buy the best leupold scope you can with the money left . Of course you can do better on the used market.

Ladobe · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2012, 09:37:58 AM »

222 Rem rigs are still readily available, lots of them out there used in great condition at the very least, so they are still a very good choice to start with if you reload. If you don't reload the 223 Rem will get you by, but they give up precision to the Triple Deuce when dotting "eyes" hunting. And don't forget the 17 Rem, or when the ranges are longer the old 22 Varminter (22-250 Win). Nor the once wildcat cartridges that now have commercial versions. Many of them are good starting places for P&V. If you reload the skies the limit in wildcats for P&V as well, and they far outshine their parent counterparts.

There are occasional/opportunistic P&V hunters, P&V hunters, and serious dedicated P&V hunters. The tools and abilities for each level are not the same. There also are short range shooters, mid range shooters and serious long/extreme range shooters that also each require different tools and abilities. You can choose to get by with much less, find a happy medium or go all the way IOW, with the end results fitting the level shooter and equipment are capable of. So first up is deciding how far you think you might want to take P&V, how much you can afford in time, effort and money to gear up for it. But always buy the best you can afford, even if you have to save up for it, and it will be the cheapest choice for you later.

Probably the best choice is to start on page one, progress in time, effort and expense as you gain experience if it turns out to be your thing. It should fit what fits you, what you have the most confidence and ability for, what you get the most enjoyment out of. But as I learned a long time ago, buying "right" from the start will save you a ton of money later if it does become your main interest like it did mine for over 50 years. And the better equipment helps along your abilities, and so your confidence much faster simply because they perform for you better.

Junk has no place in the killing fields for an ethical hunter, especially when the ranges get long and the targets small. Nor does factory ammo for any cartridge that you can improve on by reloading it yourself. Not much you can do about the rimfires other than going to the 17's (that are excellent for P&V), but everything else can be tuned to your rig and will out perform factory fodder in it if you reload. Half MOA at 100 yards might be an acceptable starting place for P&V for some folks, but you get more and more out of the game the farther you shoot faster than with a rig that will honestly shoot quarter or better MOA. Half MOA isn't even an acceptable starting place for serious target shooting, good enough for plinking though maybe.

FWIW -YMMV

Buckskin · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2012, 04:27:22 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on August 28, 2012, 09:37:58 AM

Junk has no place in the killing fields for an ethical hunter, especially when the ranges get long and the targets small. Nor does factory ammo for any cartridge that you can improve on by reloading it yourself. Not much you can do about the rimfires other than going to the 17's (that are excellent for P&V), but everything else can be tuned to your rig and will out perform factory fodder in it if you reload. Half MOA at 100 yards might be an acceptable starting place for P&V for some folks, but you get more and more out of the game the farther you shoot faster than with a rig that will honestly shoot quarter or better MOA. Half MOA isn't even an acceptable starting place for serious target shooting, good enough for plinking though maybe.

FWIW -YMMV

Ahhhhhh,,,, 1/2 MOA is plenty tight for the calibers we are talking about here and 1/4 MOA isn't going to do one bit of difference for varmint or predator hunting. You are talking about 3" group at 600 yards... Please show me your .17 that gets anywhere close to that yardage or the 222 for that matter... Yes the 222 can get there, but definately not with the power to effectively kill anything much over a prairie dog. Most people can't shoot 1/2 MOA with a 1/4 MOA gun anyway.

The 222 has lost it's foothold in the states but still has a small following and is popular in European countries where military calibers are are forbidden. It was a good platform for creating the improved calibers such as the .223, 204 though...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** August 30, 2012, 05:09:38 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on August 28, 2012, 09:37:58 AM

222 Rem rigs are still readily available, lots of them out there used in great condition at the very least, so they are still a very good choice to start with if you reload. If you don't reload the 223 Rem will get you by, but they give up precision to the Triple Deuce when dotting "eyes" hunting. And don't forget the 17 Rem, or when the ranges are longer the old 22 Varminter (22-250 Win). Nor the once wildcat cartridges that now have commercial versions. Many of them are good starting places for P&V. If you reload the skies the limit in wildcats for P&V as well, and they far outshine their parent counterparts.

There are occasional/opportunistic P&V hunters, P&V hunters, and serious dedicated P&V hunters. The tools and abilities for each level are not the same. There also are short range shooters, mid range shooters and serious long/extreme range shooters that also each require different tools and abilities. You can choose to get by with much less, find a happy medium or go all the way IOW, with the end results fitting the level shooter and equipment are capable of. So first up is deciding how far you think you might want to take P&V, how much you can afford in time, effort and money to gear up for it. But always buy the best you can afford, even if you have to save up for it, and it will be the cheapest choice for you later.

Probably the best choice is to start on page one, progress in time, effort and expense as you gain experience if it turns out to be your thing. It should fit what fits you, what you have the most confidence and ability for, what you get the most enjoyment out of. But as I learned a long time ago, buying "right" from the start will save you a ton of money later if it does become your main interest like it did mine for over 50 years. And the better equipment helps along your abilities, and so your confidence much faster simply because they perform for you better.

Junk has no place in the killing fields for an ethical hunter, especially when the ranges get long and the targets small. Nor does factory ammo for any cartridge that you can improve on by reloading it yourself. Not much you can do about the rimfires other than going to the 17's (that are excellent for P&V), but everything else can be tuned to your rig and will out perform factory fodder in it if you reload. Half MOA at 100 yards might be an acceptable starting place for P&V for some folks, but you get more and more out of the game the farther you shoot faster than with a rig that will honestly shoot quarter or better MOA. Half MOA isn't even an acceptable starting place for serious target shooting, good enough for plinking though maybe.

FWIW -YMMV

M14 sniper rifles are not held to such a tight MOA ( though some do as well)and they are used aginst some of the worst varmits in the world at distances any 22 or 17 bullet would have hit the dirt long before . Calling another shooters rig junk sounds snobish just a bit IMHO. I once beat a shooter in a IMHSA regional match . I was shooting a box stock XP-100 that I got the week before the match. They were shooting a 1200 dollar custom gun from a noted builder. They paid to have my gun taken down and inspected then said the judge was on my side when no mods were found. You can only see a mans gun you never know how many rounds he has sent down range over his life his rifle might not look expensive but his ablity and experince might make up for it.

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** August 30, 2012, 06:55:36 AM »

Opinions vary. I finished my post with "YMMV", meaning exactly that.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** August 30, 2012, 07:02:56 AM »

which means what or WMW

wmdron · « **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2012, 11:26:25 PM »

If I were to pick between a .223 and a .22-250 I would choose the .22-250. Personal preference, I like the 22-250 better.

Swift One · « **Reply #21 on:** September 19, 2012, 07:27:49 AM »

Quote

Half MOA at 100 yards might be an acceptable starting place for P&V for some folks, but you get more and more out of the game the farther you shoot faster than with a rig that will honestly shoot quarter or better MOA. Half MOA isn't even an acceptable starting place for serious target shooting, good enough for plinking though maybe.

This statement and especially the last sentance in this statement needs some attention drawn to it. Half MOA at any distance is outstanding a more than capable of killing predators and all but the smallest varmints out to several hundred yards. My axis 223 shoots at around .5 or .6 MOA at 100yds and will maintain 2" at 400yds. I had absolutely no problems smoke checking P-dogs out to a few hundred yards with it- none. My M12 22-250 savage will keep a 55gr Blitzking in the .3s at 100yds and I am here to tell you that I am not going to have any doubts about taking a 500yd shot with it at P-dogs next October in WY.

As far as Coyotes, weather you are night hutning, day huting in the east or day hunting in the wide open west, .5-.75MOA at 100yds is going to get it done all day long. In reality, a person needs to check there groups at 250/ 300yds to see if they can maintain .5 OA or better if they are going to be making longer shots.

I have a 7mm-08 that shot in the teens with a 110gr Vmax at 100yds. At 250, it maintained a 4" group. 100yds doesnt mean squat when doping loads at long distances. My current load in my 7mm-08 (150gr SBT) shoots about 1-1.5" at 100yds. It shoots 1.5" at 300yds.

If you spend your time looking for a load that shoots .25MOA consistently at 100yds and pass up .5 or even .75 MOA Loads, you need to stop hunting and take up bench rest shooting.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:00:37 AM »

And some rifles will shoot better at 300 yards than 100 yards . Some say the bullet leaves the bbl with a slight yaw or wobble and takes a bit to settle down. Testing such a gun at one hundred yards might not reveal its true potential .

Swift One · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:19:22 AM »

Quote

Some say the bullet leaves the bbl with a slight yaw or wobble and takes a bit to settle down.

It's called "letting the bullet go to sleep" and you are absolutely correct- especially with boat tail bullets.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** September 19, 2012, 08:24:42 AM »

lot more to it than going to wally world and gettin a 400 dollar rifle and a scope in a bubble pack with rings and setting the new 1000 yard record ............

Buckskin · « **Reply #25 on:** September 20, 2012, 04:32:09 AM »

Quote from: Swift One on September 19, 2012, 08:19:22 AM

Quote
Some say the bullet leaves the bbl with a slight yaw or wobble and takes a bit to settle down.

It's called "letting the bullet go to sleep" and you are absolutely correct- especially with boat tail bullets.

I am finding this with my 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle. Having a heck of a time getting a load below 1 MOA with this gun and generally shoot 200 yards when developing loads. The best I was getting consistantly was 1.2 MOA. I realize this is plenty good for hunting, but I like playing with rifles/loads, so I enjoyed the challenge... I have a dinger set at 500 yards and last weekend for the heck of it I started playing around with it and this rifle. I am finding that at that range I am well under 1 MOA and most hits were inside .6 MOA. To say the least I was pleased and have settled on my hunting load because of it... Only problem is now I need another challenge...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** September 20, 2012, 05:57:59 AM »

another rifle ..................

Buckskin · « **Reply #27 on:** September 20, 2012, 07:10:36 AM »

I see no other option...

Swift One · « **Reply #28 on:** September 20, 2012, 07:19:01 AM »

Quote from: Buckskin on September 20, 2012, 04:32:09 AM

Quote from: Swift One on September 19, 2012, 08:19:22 AM
Quote
Some say the bullet leaves the bbl with a slight yaw or wobble and takes a bit to settle down.

It's called "letting the bullet go to sleep" and you are absolutely correct- especially with boat tail bullets.

I am finding this with my 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle. Having a heck of a time getting a load below 1 MOA with this gun and generally shoot 200 yards when developing loads. The best I was getting consistantly was 1.2 MOA. I realize this is plenty good for hunting, but I like playing with rifles/loads, so I enjoyed the challenge... I have a dinger set at 500 yards and last weekend for the heck of it I started playing around with it and this rifle. I am finding that at that range I am well under 1 MOA and most hits were inside .6 MOA. To say the least I was pleased and have settled on my hunting load because of it... Only problem is now I need another challenge...

I have found for the most part with 22 caliber chamberings that with boat tails even at 100yds, you can get nice tight groups. It would seem that with heavy boattails in bigger chamberings, the bullet performs better the longer distances it shoots- within reason. .6MOA with a mountain rifle is good. Very good.

Buckskin · « **Reply #29 on:** September 20, 2012, 09:38:01 AM »

Quote from: Swift One on September 20, 2012, 07:19:01 AM

Quote from: Buckskin on September 20, 2012, 04:32:09 AM
Quote from: Swift One on September 19, 2012, 08:19:22 AM
Quote
Some say the bullet leaves the bbl with a slight yaw or wobble and takes a bit to settle down.

It's called "letting the bullet go to sleep" and you are absolutely correct- especially with boat tail bullets.

I am finding this with my 7mm-08 Mountain Rifle. Having a heck of a time getting a load below 1 MOA with this gun and generally shoot 200 yards when developing loads. The best I was getting consistantly was 1.2 MOA. I realize this is plenty good for hunting, but I like playing with rifles/loads, so I enjoyed the challenge... I have a dinger set at 500 yards and last weekend for the heck of it I started playing around with it and this rifle. I am finding that at that range I am well under 1 MOA and most hits were inside .6 MOA. To say the least I was pleased and have settled on my hunting load because of it... Only problem is now I need another challenge...

I have found for the most part with 22 caliber chamberings that with boat tails even at 100yds, you can get nice tight groups. It would seem that with heavy boattails in bigger chamberings, the bullet performs better the longer distances it shoots- within reason. .6MOA with a mountain rifle is good. Very good.

I know! Trust me on the first shot after I heard the ding, I had to go and look to see where it hit, 1.5" off dead center, I almost fell over... Shot 5 more times and had a very nice 6 shot group...This is a gun I've been fighting with for over a year - pillar bedding, new trigger, multiple combinations of bullets, powders, seating depths, ladder testing, etc... All with the same results, at best 1.2 MOA, but I never shot it over 200 yards until last week. Now it wasn't a true .6MOA as 2 we're outside the 3 inches, and I don't care!!! At least I know it is a shooter and I can stop cursing it...