500 S&W Headspace Question

[josiah712]

I was reading on one of these threads that someone noticed how deep the case went into the chamber on his 500 Handi.  He measured the excess headspace at .0015''.
 
So I got out my 500, and lo and behold - same thing.
 
My questions are first - how many of these have went out of the factory this way (mine is from Illion, NY)?
 
And second - what is considered to be the max allowable when it comes to excess headspace?

[Jason F]

Does it shoot good,are you having ftf problems.?

[josiah712]

Yes, it fires every time, but there are some lesser problems.  I am shooting very light to moderate loads; I shoot Lee 440s at about 1200 fps, and also shoot some cat sneeze loads in my back yard at about 600 fps.  When I shoot for grouping it's generally good, but there are some fliers.  Also pistol primers will have a very tiny piercing, even with the quiet loads.
 
I think I also read on one of these threads, where the poster said his 500 shot well, but not with the heavy loads.  I expect mine will be like that.
 
I really don't like the idea, that the firing pin is pushing the round forward (inconsistently for sure), and then slamming the case back against the breech upon fireing.

[Ten Ring]

1 1/2 thousand aint going to slam. Also rim thickness will vary per spec's.
jim

[josiah712]

Ten Ring,
 
I guess I have a zero too many; I'm talking 15 thousandths.

[Jason F]

You should be using large rifle primers

[josiah712]

Ten Ring, and Jason F,
 
You both have 500s.  Is your headspace right, or in excess like mine?
 
Full on 500 loads need rifle primers, because they operate at high powered rifle pressure levels.  My 600 fps loads don't even operate at full power black powder level.

[Jason F]

I have never checked it, but i will now. Try the lr primer at least it will stop piercing them and solve one problem. As for mine i load the lee 440gc into the rifling with 33grains of little gun and it is still a pretty mild load.

[Jason F]

What kind of brass you using.

[josiah712]

Yes, I have used rifle primers, and it stops the piercing.  But I'm really concerned with accuracy problems with full power loads.
 
And I'm even more concerned with whether this excess headspace is typical on the 500s, or if mine one of the few.

[josiah712]

Starline brass.

[Jason F]

I use rhe same brass. I will have to check mine in morning and see what it measures at

[josiah712]

Thanks,
 
I will check back and see what you say.
 
If you have the excess, you will clearly see, it is below flush.

[josiah712]

Common guys,
 
I'm not asking for much; lots of you have 500 S&W Handies.  Just chamber a case or a round, crack the action a little bit, and see if the head is flush or below flush.

[muznut 54]

I'm the one that had .015 of head space and I get fail to fire problems and poor accuracy with full power loads it sucks. You need to take the barrel off the frame so the extractor drops and install a case or a head space gauge then use a depth gauge to see how far the case goes in the barrel.

[quickdtoo]

Headspace is easy to check, the barrel to frame gap also has to be considered, not just the rim cut depth on rimmed chamberings, prime piece of brass and fire the empty, the real headspace will be revealed by the amount the primer backs out of the primer pocket, measure using a straight edge and feeler guage blade. Anything over .006" is excess and the barrel should be replaced by H&R.

Tim

[muznut 54]

Plus one on what Tim said my barrel to frame fit is tight no clearance but if their was you would have to add that too I just got online again just to say that. Good luck with yours I think I'm sending mine back to the factory for a second time.  

[muznut 54]

I used the depth gauge on a set of calipers with a spent case in the chamber and feeler gauge for the barrel and frame fit but I couldn't get any gauges between the barrel and frame, the chamber is cut to deep.

[josiah712]

Thanks Muznut 54, and Quickdtoo,
 
I have now measured in both ways you have described, and they concur at .015.  I also have very tight frame to barrel fit.
 
Thanks, Tim, for the .006 on the maximum slop, as that was one of my questions.
 
Muznut, I am glad to hear from you, as you are the man who alerted me to the problem.
 
I still have one question remaining; and that is how many of these left the factory this way?  I suspect that it may have been the lion's share.  So I would still like to hear from any others who have 500s.  .015'' is big, and you can see it's excess, even before you measure.
 
On this barrel It also had the rear sight (which I will be using) mounted far right of center.  Very sloppy and disappointing workmanship.  It's a factory; make a mounting jig, so that all holes will be drilled correctly.  Don't guess at it.
 
I should not have to drill and tap new holes and remount the sight.  But I did, and it was no small feat, as I am neither a machinist, nor the son of a machinist.
 
Now I will have to fill this excess headspace with JB weld.  Yes, it's lame, and will be a pain in the ass, but I still prefer that to sending the barrel back.