some help with NEf choice to make

[venom725]

Here my problem , I don't know what caliber buy in H&R Handi Rifle . I have before a .45-70 in handi rifle and buffalo classic .
But many gunsmith tell me bad thing on the rifle i resale it . I reload my own ammo and gunsmith tell me this rifle can handle much than 40 000 cup of pressure . i make some .45-70 350 gr at 38 800 cup shoot good no signs of pressure .
but i wanted something much stronger . but now that make a year ago i resale my .45-70 . I find many Sb2 in .30-06 , 500 s&w , and other caliber make more than 40 000 cup of pressure . Now i want to rebuy one but don't know in .45-70 or .500 s&w . I call h&r agency to know how much strong are Nef Action but tell me they don't know . A friend of mind tell me to come here and ask here . Do somebody have see the pressure limit of a Nef , SB2 , Handi rifle .  And if you can tell me what caliber you take in . because if i buy in .500 s&w i will buy a .45-70 marlin 1895g , and if i buy a .45-70 i will buy a lever action .500 S&w . the two rifle are for bear and moose , because where i hunt it's not rare to fall face to face with big bull or bear  i wanted something can  knock the unlucky one .  200 yard and less
thanks in advance

[venom725]

I know gunsmith are wrong , but they let me a little fear of this rifle .
Just to know your's experience with your's and i will test some load . my last load is 53.5gr of H4198 with 350 gr hornady    col 2.542" , It's a effective round but my friends have ruger #1 and load hotter and have  excellent precision .
 

[45-70.gov]

get both in 45-70

[rdlange]

Agree with 45-70gov... better cartridge.  More selection ammo and reload components.  Cheaper and easier to get.  Same caliber for both guns is a good idea - no confusion.
 
Also look here:
 
http://www.reloadammo.com/4570load.htm
 
Top loads too much recoil for me, but safe in either gun.
 

[petemi]

I just sold my .500 Handi.  My .45-70 does much more.  I load Ruger level loads with no problem.  My hunting load, good for 300 yards, is a 405 gr. Remington over IMR 4198 for 1950 fps.  It'll handle your irritated bear or moose.

You'll never have a problem getting your money back out of a Handi if you sell here in the classifieds.  Dealers will bad mouth them to get a steal and then put an outrageous price on them at a gun show.

Good luck,

Pete

[muznut 54]

I wouldn't worry about the strength of the action with the 45-70, if the action can hold a 500gr SW500mag up to 60K psi I think your ok.      

[BBF]

................
....................................... my last load is 53.5gr of H4198 with 350 gr hornady    col 2.542" , It's a effective round but my friends have ruger #1 and load hotter and have  excellent precision .

I'm puzzled, do you think your load is inadequate for Moose or Bear?

[venom725]

another thing on .45-70 handi rifle . I know in past many hunter hunt bison at long and short distance . Now gunsmith & sport supply store tell the .45-70 can not kill a animal out of 150 yard maybe 200 yards in the far . but i know someone tell me , he kill a moose at 370 yards with a .45-70 405 gr remington fp . many tell me they are a liar but in time again kill a bison far away .  Do someone have experience with .45-70 on a big game hunt  like moose , grizzly , buffalo , wapiti , or elk at a long distance , do they death on track or just injured . I think is like a baseball ball and a bowling ball , a baseball at 2700 fps will hurt but a bowling ball at 2300 fps they will hurt much more . I like big bullet but everyman in my town tell i'm a crazy because is a short range cartridges . They tell me the same thing on my .375 ruger and i shoot a hog at 1300 yards with my 350 gr bullet with custom hollow point .  I always hunt with 375 and .45 caliber ... i just want to understand why many tell is short range cartridge . They tell me a .45-100 have not the power of a 300 win mag , but i compared it with my chrono , at 400 yards i have the same trajectory with my 400 gr bullet then a 300 win mag at 500 yard with 180 gr . and i have much more energy . and when a use a good quality bullet i can rely make something very powerful .
what happen with people , they are all in love with 300 win mag,  308 , 270 . but they tell bad thing about 338 , 375 , 405 , 416 , 45 . 50 .
i see a man with a 416 rigby shoot at 500 yard with deadly accuracy . with a 408 cheytac bullets .
see a old man , shoot at 830 yard with a 45-70 in a 28 inch barrel iron target , man have 72 year old , and i see a picture of him when is young , winning a shooting tournament with is .45-90 sharps at 1200 yards

[mechanic]

The 45-70 with trapdoor loads has more muzzle energy at 1000 yd.s than a 45 acp at the muzzle.  The problem with any large caliber is trajectory.  If you have a sighting system to overcome the trajectory, you could kill a deer or elk a long ways away.
 
A trapdoor load in 45-70 with hard cast lead will shoot end to end on a large boar and keep on going.
 
If it were the only gun I had I would not feel undergunned on anything on this continent.
 
Ben

[venom725]

this what i think , 400 gr bullet at 1000 fps at 600 yards with heavy load , at 600 yards with 1000 fps on a 400 gr .   Is a hard hitting , i think i can shoot a moose and kill or deadly injure him at this distance . and if i go up more with a 500 gr and very good b.c. i will keep it down much far distance . with peep sight is the better way . and my .45-100 have 10% much capacity them the .458 win mag , with this cartridge i can shoot 400 grain bullet at 500 yards with the same trajectory of a 300 win mag at the same distance with a 180 gr , and that tested with chrono and range . 180gr hornady 300 win mag have  41" drop , and the same thing with my 45-100 43" drop , is about the same .

[BBF]

Ahem !! Just what did you use to measure those distances??

[venom725]

in shooting range , they have chrono at all 100 yard with a calculator of trajectory . and with the 300 win mag hornady 180 in a remington 700 at 500 yards they have the same trajectory than a .45-100 with 500 or 400 gr at 400 yards .
is a trajector in inch . 300 win mag do - 43.16" exactly .... hornady claim is -41.60" .  180 gr interlock with 24" barrel .
is a trajector in inch of .45-100 with 500 gr woodleigh or any other with .360 b.c. or more have -46.20" from the 24 inch .
the shooting range have 1600 yards in all lenght . but only the first 800 yard are equiped with chrono and trajectory calculator .
with .45-100 at 400 yards i still have more energy than an 300 win mag . at 500 yard too . but trajectory have twice -84.14"
but if i touch a moose at this distance , he will falling down pretty sure . the hit are about a tons

[keith44]

too much thinking not enough shooting.  venom725, if you are wanting a hard hitting large game rifle, .45-70 cal in the Handi can be loaded to almost .458 Win Mag levels (ballistics)  For penetration on heavy game use 350 or heavier hard cast bullets sized .001 over bore size, backed by enough powder of your choice to achieve a muzzle velocity of 1,700 fps or more, and just practice shooting at the ranges you encounter game. 


Remember this is a retired battlefield round and was tested and re-tested by the military for accuracy, and penetration.  This may shed some light on the effective range of the .45-70:
http://usarmorment.com/pdf/45-70.pdf