357mag handi, 1250fps 180gr lswc.. GC or not ?

[gendoc]

i done tha test and got tha proof... jus want'n to know what yall think.............
16" custom mod barrel for close quarters. NOT MAX'D REAM'D 
lots of talk bout lead'n at that speed on other sites, true or false ?
brew was semi soft/semi hard....kan't tellya exact %... i don't make'um
many don't take on tha results of different powders and there ignition properties.
i much perfer jacketed bullets... just did tha tests for a friend on tha boolit make'n side.
 

[45-70.gov]

DON'T SEEM TO MATTER IN MY 357MAG

[gendoc]

DON'T SEEM TO MATTER IN MY 357MAG

what don't ... lead'n your barrel or what ??

[Catshooter45]

  The only way to know is to try it, honestly.
 
Having said that, my 45 Colt (Winchester Trapper) will lead with wheel weight alloy plain base bullets only when I get above about 1500.  Half wheel weights half pure lead leads mildly at 1400.  This is with a Lyman 452424 Keith semi-wadcutter.
 
It really depends much more on bullet to barrel fit rather than hardness of the bullet though.  Bullet hardness is about third on the list for causes of leading, despite what many people will tell you.
 
 
Cat

[mechanic]

I've shot a bunch of them without GC.  IMO it's more important that the bullet fit the bore than anything else regarding leading. 
 
Ben

[gendoc]

any more opinions ?? so far, yall bat'n bout 800 or so...........

[bikerbeans]

Doc,
 
Since you are shootin' a carbine and not a short barreled wheel gun I would think if you used a slower powder and a properly sized bullet that 1250 fps would be possible without a GC and no leadin' in your bore.   
 
BB

[jeepmann1948]

I prefer the gas checked versions to plain base. Much easier to install the gas checks than get the lead out of the lands accuracy is usually better too.Only non gc bullets I shoot are mild 38 spls.The gas checks are also extra work for the coroner to find while they are doing the autopsy , but not as bad as an ounce and a half of #12 shot from 10 feet from an open chocked shootgun

[gendoc]

"also extra work for the coroner to find while they are doing the autopsy , but not as bad as an ounce and a half of #12 shot from 10 feet from an open chocked shootgun "

NOW ...JEEP !!!!
you saida lot tween breaths on nat'un..........

[quickdtoo]

IMO based on tons of reading, not actual shootin mind ya, properly sized cast bullets  = as big as the chamber will allow you to load so the bullet will be sized proper for the bore when ya shoot it!   For example, my 45-70 Trapper barrel slugs .4575" in the groove, .460" cast bullets chamber just fine, so that's what's goin down the barrel next week at the range after I run some jacketed thru it.  I also have a bunch of .379" and .380" gas checked cast bullets that chamber just fine in the 376 Steyr, so they'll be makin range trip sometime too after I wring out some jacketed bullets in it, I just read a bunch on 2400fps cast loads in the 30-06 with LBT Blue lube, some at 2600fps with Carnauba Red, gas checked of course. Also read that Lee Alox is great for HV smokeless loads and easy to apply to PB bullets, kind of a poor man's gas check! 

Good shootin to ya Doc!! 

Tim

[gendoc]

Doc,
 
Since you are shootin' a carbine and not a short barreled wheel gun I would think if you used a slower powder and a properly sized bullet that 1250 fps would be possible without a GC and no leadin' in your bore.   
 
BB

thanks bb,
i guess yall still don't relize my post ...
i done did tha test, an know tha best results.... jus want'n to know yalls opinion.
size matters but, thats not all thats important........dang, i heard that'un bout 50years ago

[gendoc]

IMO based on tons of reading, not actual shootin mind ya, properly sized cast bullets  = as big as the chamber will allow you to load so the bullet will be sized proper for the bore when ya shoot it!   For example, my 45-70 Trapper barrel slugs .4575" in the groove, .460" cast bullets chamber just fine, so that's what's goin down the barrel next week at the range after I run some jacketed thru it.  I also have a bunch of .379" and .380" gas checked cast bullets that chamber just fine in the 376 Steyr, so they'll be makin range trip sometime too after I wring out some jacketed bullets in it, I just read a bunch on 2400fps cast loads in the 30-06 with LBT Blue lube, some at 2600fps with Carnauba Red, gas checked of course. Also read that Lee Alox is great for HV smokeless loads and easy to apply to PB bullets, kind of a poor man's gas check! 

Good shootin to ya Doc!! 

Tim

tim, you, bb and others are correct bout tha bore  vs  projectile fit'n...
but one can't forget bout tha fire you light under it !!!!
bore integrity and consistantancy.
and tha ability to perform from seat'n depth to tha lands.
not to mention, brass prep, primers and overall finished product.
thats what it takes when your hired to test manufacturers projectiles.
who is ?? not me !!! .................    lead goes on my fish'n line tween tha bottle cork and
live shrimp......aka "sinker"
thats bout all its gud for roun here

[Troyboy]

Powder burn rate and boolit fit. Key....

[45-70.gov]

DON'T SEEM TO MATTER IN MY 357MAG

what don't ... lead'n your barrel or what ??

no leading in my 357 handi


 near max load of h110
and  6 grains bullseye
180 WFN.....
alloyss;
............ 50/50..ww and pure lead.......both gc and pb.
...........ww........both gc  and  pb
...........pure lead [maybe 10% ww].....gc only


no leading and accuracy was the same at 100 yds [approx 2 to 3 inches if i remember]
so i just use the cheap 50/50 alloy and pb and cheap bullseye now
..........
3 grams bullseye  in a 38 is  on at 50 yards


BTW....FORGOT TO MENTIONLBT BLUE LUBE IS ALL I USE
and veral made this mold

[gendoc]

roger on tha
"blue lube" an veral made mold, says my friend............

[Lonegun1894]

Gendoc,
Here is some of my results, but I will not list powder loads due to this may or may not be a safe load in your or someone elses gun.  I do not have the 180gr mold you mention, but use Lee 158gr molds instead in the GC and nonGC versions.  With the nonGC RNFP158gr, I have pushed that bullet with various loads in my Rossi 92 20" with 1:30 twist.  Two of my most used powders are Unique and 2400.  With Unique, I started getting leading at 1450-1500fps, and didn't push it any further.  However, when I started playing with 2400, I got up to 1850fps with the same nonGCd bullet, with both loads being lubed with LLA.  Now I do get much better accuracy with the GCd bullet at the same velocity, so use the nonGCd bullet for the lighter loads, but it was good to know I could get up there without the GC.  Does that help any?  I also think that the fit, the lube, the alloy, and the burn characteristics of the powder and where the pressure curve is is also a factor with cast bullets, but that these can also be played with some to make different loads work to an extent.

[gcrank1]

22LR, HV @ about 1250fps: many shooters have a hard time getting as good accuracy from their cast bullet reloads as these, and none have GCs.
My CF cast reloads, WWt and range scrap with a dash of tin, PB or GC at 1250 dont lead (given the fit is right as mentioned above; with small doses of fast shotgun powder or slower stuff.
My .30cal. 1450ish fps loads do have GC, Equiv. Ly#2 alloy unknown lube but it is blue, and Motor Mica dusted (I got these in bulk from a com. caster some years back): no leading, and I could go faster, but I dont want/need to, so I dont know their limit. Ive done the shotgun powders, through 2400 and IMR 4227.
IMHO, GCs will maybe make a marginal fit (too small) projectile OK, and wont make a larger one bad, UNLESS the GC is seated on uneven on the base, a very common thing, BTW. It adds another variable in the mix that can be devastating to accuracy if done poorly. If done correctly, straight and  square, it 'should be' as good or better, but against a proper PB cast at 1250 I might be the biggest detriment to accuracy.

[gendoc]

22LR, HV @ about 1250fps: many shooters have a hard time getting as good accuracy from their cast bullet reloads as these, and none have GCs.
My CF cast reloads, WWt and range scrap with a dash of tin, PB or GC at 1250 dont lead (given the fit is right as mentioned above; with small doses of fast shotgun powder or slower stuff.
My .30cal. 1450ish fps loads do have GC, Equiv. Ly#2 alloy unknown lube but it is blue, and Motor Mica dusted (I got these in bulk from a com. caster some years back): no leading, and I could go faster, but I dont want/need to, so I dont know their limit. Ive done the shotgun powders, through 2400 and IMR 4227.
IMHO, GCs will maybe make a marginal fit (too small) projectile OK, and wont make a larger one bad, UNLESS the GC is seated on uneven on the base, a very common thing, BTW. It adds another variable in the mix that can be devastating to accuracy if done poorly. If done correctly, straight and  square, it 'should be' as good or better, but against a proper PB cast at 1250 I might be the biggest detriment to accuracy.

i been wait'n on your input !!!!!!!
i have found the best load for my friends lead boolits outta his mag.....
increased to lil'over 1400 with tha 5th powder tested, like you said...."or slower stuff"
performed very well and ain't lead fouled tha barrel no more than gc's do within reason.
so all is good and i preciate yall's opinion.
now to throw sum outta my gp-100 wifa lil-bit more flame......................
 

[twoshooter]

I use a Lee 185 gr RNFB from quenched WW sized 358, I have never had any leading problems with it. I do not have a crony but calculate they stay below 1400fps, prob around 1300. I use that moly lube.

[44 Man]

Gendoc, while I don't have a .357 Handi (yet), I have shot thousands of cast bullet through my pistols for 50 years or more.  Most of my cast bullet are straight wheel weight material and I have no problem up to 1400 fps or so.  In fact, I can't remember the last time I had a leading problem except for when I bought some purt lead commercial swaged bullets.  Cast them from wheelwts and leading does not seem to be an issue.  Now if you want to push 'em 1800 to 2000 fps, you better use gas checks.  But have you priced those things lately?  You can almost buy jacketed bullets for the price of gas checks!  44 Man

[Ganjiro]

I shoot plain base 405 grain cast bullets from my 45/70 at 1400 fps and have no leading issues.  YMMV   

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

3 grams bullseye  in a 38 is  on at 50 yards

I hope you mean GRAINS

[45-70.gov]

3 grams bullseye  in a 38 is  on at 50 yards

I hope you mean GRAINS

i thought they  kicked  a bit  in that old  vintage smith!!


yes  i meant grains.....thats why people shouldn't listen to me
or any one else when it comes to load data
they say get it from 2 reliable sources.....but  i think  3 sources  is  safer

[quickdtoo]

Not to worry, we knew whatcha meant, anyone that can get 46.3 grains of powder in a 38 case has got to be a magician, or using some serious compression!!

Tim

http://www.metric-conversions.org/weight/grams-to-grains.htm

[bikerbeans]

3 grams bullseye  in a 38 is  on at 50 yards

I hope you mean GRAINS

i thought they  kicked  a bit  in that old  vintage smith!!


yes  i meant grains.....thats why people shouldn't listen to me
or any one else when it comes to load data
they say get it from 2 reliable sources.....but  i think  3 sources  is  safer

I thought you was from Texas where everything is bigger and a 38 case would hold 3 grams of powder.
 
BB

[jeepmann1948]

BB be nice now, if it weren't for us Texans                                                          
(you fill in the blanks )