Author Topic: .300 mag question (Read 1351 times)

j.trevor123 · « **on:** January 29, 2004, 05:01:10 PM »

first of all would a .300 mag be your choice for a elk rifle?? If i bought a .300 wsm a-bolt synt. would it recoil very bad even with a recoil pad like a limb saver, etc. I want a .300 but im affraid i will hate to shoot it. Can anyone help me out.

Zachary · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2004, 04:20:41 AM »

The .300 Win Mag is an excellent cartridge for elk. Premium 180 to 200 grain bullets work best.

Is it too much for you? Well, only you can answer that. I can say this - the limb saver does reduce felt recoil quite a bit.

I can say this, I own a .300 Win Mag (actually, I own two of them). The recoil, at least for me, is tolerable. I used to flinch a lot, but I have since mostly overcome that problem - it truly is mostly mental.

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2004, 05:22:14 AM »

Quote

I want a .300 but im affraid i will hate to shoot it.

Then you probably will hate to shoot it. Buy a .30-06 or .308 instead. They will do anything the .300 mags will for you. Velocity and that useless paper energy for them is about the same as the .300 mags at about 100 yards less distance. Trajectory differences are really on the order of a couple inches or so at 300 yards, a distance darn few have any real business shooting a game from truth be told.

I need rotator cuff surgery (both shoulders really) especially badly on my right shoulder. I just absolutely cannot take the punishment from a .300 mag. The '06 isn't really fun but using a PAST Magnum Pad I can shoot it from the bench OK for working up loads and sight in chores. Hunting it doesn't bother me all that much as it just isn't shot much at game. One or at most a couple shots does the trick.

Inside of 300 yards there is no real world advantage to the magnums. Cartrides on the .308 or '06 case are plenty. Have been now for almost 100 years.

GB

Tc300mag1 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2004, 12:19:23 PM »

Graybeard is right if think youll be scared of it you will be if you havent shoot a 30-06 a lto and are jumping from say a 270 the recoil is quite different. I had mine muzzledbraked becuse of bad shoulder so i could keep shooting it. No its like shooting a 243

Gregory · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2004, 12:30:52 PM »

Quote from: j.trevor123

I want a .300 but im affraid i will hate to shoot it. Can anyone help me out.

Will this be your first centerfire rifle or are you shooting one now? What calibers have you shot? I have a Ruger 300 Win Mag and it was not a big step up from a 30/06.

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2004, 09:07:46 AM »

j.trevor123,

The one thing I can tell you is that the recoil difference between the .300 WSM and the .300 Win. Mag.(when compared in rifles with the same length barrel, weighting the same and shooting ammo with velocities the same) you can not tell the difference in felt recoil. I tried it and could not tell the difference. And as Graybeard stated if you start out thinking you might be afraid of a cartridge, you will be afraid of it. Go with a .30-06 and don't look back. Lawdog

azshooter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2004, 11:10:40 AM »

If it weighs enough, you can shoot just about anything. Mine has a heavy barrel and I can put about 40 rounds through it before it bothers me. No recoil pad and not ported. With a recoil pad, heavy barrel and port job I imagine any adult could shoot one pretty easy. In a light 6 pound rifle, I would not want the punishment.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2004, 09:03:21 PM »

I agree with most of what GB had to say but one thing. There is a benefit to the 300 mags and that's pusging heavy for caliber bullets to higher velocities. A 200 Partition turns a 300 Mag into a penetraing machine. The shock and penetration is just amazing.. Thats the realy benefit of the magnum. They allow you to hit harder at any range but the penalty is in recoil(ain't physics just a bummer!! I love the various 300 mags. If the recoil bothers you at the range a 'sissy bag' will absorb nearly all the pain. It acts by in effect adding several pounds to the rifles weight. An 8 pound rifle can be a bit uncomfortable, at 15 pounds it just a noisy 243.. They can be bought but I made mine years ago.. By the way, any rifle will cause pain if enough rounds are fired.. Even the little 30-30 can cause grief if yoy shoot sufficient rounds.. I like the various 300's, I've 3 now, a custom 300 winchester(on an Enfield action), a Ruger No.1V in 300 WinMag, and a pre-64 M70 in 300 H&H. They can be mastered if you wish..

Muddyboots · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:30:25 AM »

I also agree with Gunnut69 on the benefit of the 300WM is in the heavier bullets. I shoot the new 200 gr Accubond out of two of mine. One in standard 700 at 7 3/4 lb.s that kicks a bit and the other in Sendero which really tames it down. I was brought up shooting slug guns off the bench so they really don't bother that much to shoot. I've shot as much as 60 rounds through my Sendero at one sitting and didn't stop only due to out of ammo. I spent the day shoot 300-400+ yds practicing for elk trip last year. The 300WM really shines with the heavier stuff that a 06 cannot match. I would still go with the 300WM and keep it down to 06 recoil for deer and still have the option of cooking it for elk. Yes it is more powder but the bottom line is more performance capability as well. I like having it if I need it instead of wishing I had more. Recoil is really telling yourself it doesn't matter. Get good recoil pad, a bench buddy pad, PAST shoulder pad or something like that and recoil doesn't come into the equation. Good shooting techique off the bench will also curb a lot of felt recoil. It takes time to properly set up a rifle off a bag. Far too often, I see shooters just throw their rifle on a bag without consideration for front bag height or rear bag placement. When the rifle comes back and bites them, they blame the rifle when it was poor benching of the rifle. Get to know someone who shoots properly off the bench and it will make a world of difference. Good luck...there is no real bad decision here. Buy what will make you feel comfortable.
Muddyboots

Alan R · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2004, 06:32:55 AM »

GN69...I gotta ask...just what exactly is a "sissy bag"?

Lawdog · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:56:10 AM »

Alan R,

A sissy bag is the name given to a bag of bird shot that you put between the gun butt and your shoulder. Really takes the bite out of heavy kickers. Lawdog

Alan R · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2004, 11:01:18 AM »

Thanks Lawdog...I'm learning a lot....

A man's gotta know that if he buys a rifle that SUCKS and kicks like a mule that he might need to bring a sissy bag to the range to save face :grin:

Graybeard · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2004, 01:12:34 PM »

Quote

I agree with most of what GB had to say but one thing. There is a benefit to the 300 mags and that's pusging heavy for caliber bullets to higher velocities.

As far as I'm concerned that's the ONLY valid reason for the .300 magnums. I.E., to push a 200 or 220 grain bullet to the same velocity as the .30-06 does the 180. If someone really wants extra penetration they can give AND is willing to take the punishment of them I really have no problem with that. I can't take that level of punishment anymore until I get this rotator cuff fixed. I've put it off way too long but dread the long recovery period so am still putting it off.

GB

sabotloader · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2004, 02:04:42 PM »

I have kind of watched this thread with interest. I own and shoot a 300 Win Mag - it is the right rifle for me one of the reasons is because of what someone said above - "I would rather have it when I need than wish I had it when I didn't have it." My problem, it is awful hard to justify if you could see the shots that I have taken at big game with it you would know what I mean. I can count on one hand the number of Elk I have taken with it at ranges that the Mag might be necessary. On the other hand if I were to drop back to another rifle for elk hunting it certainly wouldn't be the 30-06. I guess I am old enough to be a Jack O'Conner fan - I would use a .270 "a poor mans magnum." If you look at the velocities of the .270 and the ft. pounds of energy that it can deliver, Its flaaaaat trajectory (flatter than an 06 over the long range) + travel time of the bullet from muzzle to target - I beleive these figures all add up to a better all-around rifle than the 06. I wouldn't recommend it for dangerous North American game in the hands of a new hunter, although O'Conner used it for everything in North America.

Not trying to stir up the old controversy about which is better 06 or .270 - but, if I did - I would go with the .270 all day for varmits to Elk and Moose.

redial · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2004, 05:32:35 PM »

I use 300 Win Long(?) as my primary game rifle for one good reason - everything I hunt happens in one big season, so my 300 is my "whatever I see today" rifle. The terrain I hunt is steep timber but you may have to shoot across to the opposing slope, so ranges vary from 15 to 400 yards.

I only have one load - a 200 Partition at about 2925 - since it shoots flat and penetrates well. It'll kill anything I might see.

Besides, it's often cold up here so I hunt with many layers of clothing on. Bundled up like that, I could comfortably shoot just about anything. Recoil isn't an issue.

For most folks under most conditions though, an 06 might serve you better.

Cheers!

Redial

j.trevor123 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2004, 05:21:49 AM »

well see i have a .270 but i want a bigger caliber for elk.. i know i really do not need one sice i could use my .270 but i guess i sorta want one. But i have no problem shooting it, but it is a big difference from a .300 im sure. The reason i like the .300 over the 30-06 is just the ballistics charts, according to that the .300 brings much more energy and quite a bit more velocity to the table then that of the 30-06. But i just dont know if it would be better to have a rifle i could shoot comfortably or a hard hitter( i dunno maybe i could shoot a hard hitter just as good when i see what im shooting).

sabotloader · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2004, 07:45:03 AM »

jt - if you shoot a .270 now and you shoot it with confidence and you are ok with that recoil - I will go out on a limb here and say go for the 300, (and I would get the regular long length 300 vs the short Mag.) The short mag is a gimmick and the shells are really expensive. There is a difference in recoil between the two, the 270 and the 300 but I don't thnk it will bother you unless you are shooting prone or shooting a lot off bags. Believe when you are shooting game you waon't even remember the recoil. Having the velocity and energy generated by the 300 can be a plus. I shoot 200 gr Sierra SPBT's and 200 grain (semi round nose - no longer available) Nosler particians from mine. The Sierra has a higher BC and the Nosler is a penetrator - when I am hunting I load them in an alternating pattern with the Nosler first - I know it sounds dumb but we all have our little quirks and in my mind I am able to justify it. I love my 300...

Gregory · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2004, 11:54:40 AM »

Quote from: j.trevor123

well see i have a .270 but i want a bigger caliber for elk.. i know i really do not need one sice i could use my .270 but i guess i sorta want one. But i have no problem shooting it, but it is a big difference from a .300 im sure. The reason i like the .300 over the 30-06 is just the ballistics charts, according to that the .300 brings much more energy and quite a bit more velocity to the table then that of the 30-06. But i just dont know if it would be better to have a rifle i could shoot comfortably or a hard hitter( i dunno maybe i could shoot a hard hitter just as good when i see what im shooting).

In my opinion, if you have a 270 already there is no reason to get a 30/06. There is not enough difference in performance to justify it. If you shoot the 270 comfortably, you can learn to shoot a 300 Win Mag. The 300 will give you a measurable increase in performance. If you reload, even better, you can load to 300 Win down to practice and save the full power loads for hunting.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 04, 2004, 09:37:40 PM »

If you can get along with the recoil of 30-06/270 cartridge but want more long range punch without more recoil do what a heck of a lot of hunters have done. Buy a 7mmRemMag. The recoil of a 7Mag is close to the 30-06 with al else being equal and the Mag actually throughs bullets of similar weight at about the same velocity(physics again!!!!) but the better ballistics of the 7mm bullets provides better energy levels at longer ranges. Once again the magnum case works best if stoked with heavier bullets. I would suggest the 160-175 class. The 175 is a clasic for heavier game like the elk. The 7mm will not shoot flatter than the 300 nor will it hit harder when it gets there but it shoots flatter than an -06 but kicks about the same.. A nice compromise!! I have 2(just sold the Weatherby) and am quite fond of the 160 grain partition. Shoots flag and is a really great deer bullet. Beware of poor bullets, especially in the mid and light weights, they have a tendancy to fail on close shots. My ruger just loved the 162 grain Hornaday BT's but a doe at about 80 yards received a chest shot that hit nothing but ribs and the exit was saucer sized. The lungs were sucked from the exit. The deer went only a few feet but I was left wondering how much waste I would have had if that bullet had gone anywhere near the edible parts.. Went to the partition(Nosler) and no further problems. I am interested in some of the new crop of bonded core bullets from Nosler, and Hornaday.. For whitetail a bit less penetration wouldn't be a big loss and those bullets do make leathal looking mushrooms!!

Bear Wallow · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2004, 07:47:07 AM »

If you're afraid of your gun you will miss or wound game. Up to 200 yds. or so an elk will never know whether it was shot with a .308 or a .300 mag if the shot placment is correct. Shot placement is the key to more kills not energy. The .300 magnums in my eye are for shots over 300yds. on elk sized game. Everone gets caught up in ballistics and energy and they don't practice enough in hunting positions.

Zachary · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2004, 08:27:36 AM »

Quote from: Bear Wallow

The .300 magnums in my eye are for shots over 300yds. on elk sized game.

That's generally true, but not always.

Specifically, I like using my .300 Win Mag (and even .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H) on large sized hogs, even at close ranges.

I used my .300 Win Mag with 180 grain Barnes X bullets on a 250 pound hog AT LESS THAN 100 YARDS and guess what? THE BULLET DID NOT COMPLETELY PENETRATE! :eek: It's that grisle plate that those hogs have which is like a steel plate. The bullet penetrated the first shoulder, but was lodged inside of the other plate.

After I saw that happen, I got me a .338 Win Mag and used 225 Barnes X Bullets. I still use that gun for shots under 100 yards....this time they fully penetrate. :wink:

Zachary

Gregory · « **Reply #21 on:** February 05, 2004, 12:43:11 PM »

Quote from: Zachary

Quote from: Bear Wallow

I used my .300 Win Mag with 180 grain Barnes X bullets on a 250 pound hog AT LESS THAN 100 YARDS and guess what? THE BULLET DID NOT COMPLETELY PENETRATE! :eek: It's that grisle plate that those hogs have which is like a steel plate. The bullet penetrated the first shoulder, but was lodged inside of the other plate.

Zachary

Zachary
Have you ever tried a 200 gr Nosler Partition out of your 300 WM on a hogs grisle plate?

Bear Wallow · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2004, 06:16:48 AM »

Zachary, with all :roll: respect maybe it's the bullet you used and not the cartridge?

Zachary · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2004, 07:07:48 AM »

Nah...it's not the bullet. Trust me. :grin: No hunting bullet out there can out penetrate a barnes X.

Actually, I have used a 200 Nosler in my 300 WM. It was a Federal High Energy load. However, I used this load on a smallish hog (about 75 pounds) - which even a smaller gun, and bullet, would have been able to fully penetrate. I was hoping for a much larger hog for that load, but 75 pounds was the biggest that showed-up that particular day.

Zachary

Bear Wallow · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2004, 09:35:27 AM »

I missed that it was a x bullet. :-D

magnum308 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2004, 02:23:44 AM »

j.trevor123,

I own a claasic custom rifle in 308 Norma Magnum (30/338). Which is pretty close to the 300 WM. It is dream to shoot but then the stock is a classic straight stock and it was built for me, measurements and all.

If you thiink you'll be afraid of it see if you can try one first. There will be nothing more nightmarish than having a rifle in your gun cabinet you are afraid to shoot. The only good rifle is one you love to shoot and you ought to shoot it often so that you become familiar with it and to the point that it is an extension of you.

Perhaps you'd be better off with a more moderate calibre, they can also be built lighter and you'll love every once you can save in rifle weight when you're hunting. Try a 30-06 or a 270.

Magnum308

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2004, 06:43:35 PM »

j.trevor123 -

When I came to Colorado 20+ years ago, the man that got me started hunting elk recommended I buy a 7mm Rem Mag. I did, and have hunted elk with it ever since. When my bow-hunting buddy needed a rifle, I recommended a 7mm Rem Mag. We both use Speer 160g Grand Slams and we have taken 6 elk in the last 5 years with that combination. No lost animals, ever. Half the elk dropped in their tracks, the others only went a few yards. One went 100 yards but that was because my buddy shot it in the neck.

I am providing this background because if it was to do over I would probably buy a .300. You already shoot a .270, and there is very little advantage to a 7mm Rem Mag with a 160g bullet over a .270Win with a 150g bullet.

Go ahead and get the .300.