Foreign cartridges

[filmokentucky]

Does anyone have information on these cartridges--- 11.5mmx51mmR Danish, .43 Spanish, and 12.7mmx44mmR Swedish? Specifically, powder charges, bullet weights and ballistic information. I've noticed a number of rolling blocks available for reasonable prices on the various on-line auctions and I'm thinking of giving one of them a try, but I don't have any knowledge of these rounds. Thanks. (TheDanish cartridge is sometimes listed as 11.7mmx51mmR)

[John Traveler]

Welcome to the board, filmokentucky!

All those obsolete military cartridges you mentioned were contemporaries of our US Military .45-70 blackpowder cartridge in the later third of the 19th century.  Many European militaries kept them for war reserve or issued them to colonia troops for another 40 years.  As such, they all have similar performance and exterior ballistics (maximum range, muzzle velocity, bullet weight) and loading data, etc.  All can be and are moderatley popular for reloading and shooting.  See Fred Barnes' Cartridges of the World for details.

Reloading for them is simple:  load proper sized lubricated cast lead bullets over full charges of FF blackpowder.

The stinger in the ointment is that except for the 11.5 Danish, they all use odd-sized brass cartridge cases that are expensive, hard to find, or a lot of work to convert from common brass.  

The 11.5 Danish can be loaded and fired with shortened .45-70 cases and bullets, but the groove diameters are frequently larger than the US standard of .457-.458".  The .43 Spanish or 11mm Spanish uses nominal .439" diameter lead bullets and unique head-size cases.

The 12.7 Danish is very similar to our .50-70 military, and sometimes shorted .50-70 cases can be made to fit.  Groove diameter is a nominal 0.510", but can be oversized.

What this long answer amounts to is this:  While surplus rifles MAY Be reasonably priced, the finding, making, and loading of accurate ammunition is definitely NOT.  You have to be willing to (or find someone that IS) experiment a lot, cast bullets, play with bullet molds, sizing diameters, obtain expensive reloading dies, cases, and put up with 130-year old manufacturing tolerances and metalurgy.  It requres real dedication to make good shooters out of the old warhorses.

Welcome to the addiction!  We BPCR shooters love it!

HTH
John

[Double D]

Get your self a copy of  "Cartridges of the World" for basic loading data.

Get reloading dies from www.ch4d.com or http://www.buffaloarms.com/

Buffalo can also set you up with cases.

Got to http://www.libertyshootingsupplies.com/index.htm
for bullets.

[445supermag]

The long and short of it. IF you like the work of makeing brass for some odd ball rifle and shoot it a few times then say i did ,it nock yourself out. Been there done that. Now that you can get ready made brass and bullits you can enjoy loading and shooting more. Get lee dies for 43 spanish or mauser cheap. 45/70 neck die for the danish 11mm, lymen cheap.  50/70 lymen for the 12mm, the sizer will have to be shortened buy grinding or lathe turned or buy the dies from ch4d or rcbs. A good rb will cost 500/600$ so why use cobed up ammo unless your real cheap.Don,t expect match accuracy they were millitary rifles. I know some of you guy,s get match acc with your,s but that the exception not the rule. As most of you found out they shoot high at a 100. Yup! but that,s minute of horse and rider at long range . At a 100 a foot high or low still hits a person some where between head to toe. They were made for black so use black. Soft lead bullits not hard ones. IF you want smokless get a smokless 7mm/303/30-30 or whatever. The danish 8mm were smokless. Now the hard part what have you got. Most rb don,t have the cal of cart marked. A chamber cast with some of the rifling will tell you what you have to comepare to the cart avalable. Of the 15/20 barrel i have come acrossed they are what they are soposed to be. As 439 spanish, 446 egyption ,7mm 456 danish and so on. Ther are some oddballs like 43 spanish reformado, it is not 439 bottle neck cart it is 456 almost stright caes brass bullit of spanish origen. It can be fun trying to figure out some of them and sure are fun to shoot.

[filmokentucky]

So, which is the best for longer shots? I've noticed a number of the 12.7x44rifles for sale on-line in nice shape. They're advertised as having fine to mint bores and good tight actions. I've got experience with the .50/70 and .45/70 but I plan to pick up a trap door to play with so I'm leaning toward the 12.7 as it's close to a.50/70. Assuming a good bore and a tight action, how  does the 12.7 do at longer ranges?

[rocklock]

I have a Swedish 12.7x44R Rolling Block built on a Remington action. Brass is easily made from .348 Winchester or available from Buffalo Arms.

.50-70 dies can be used with NO modifications.

Shoots great with the Lyman 425 gr. bullet.