Author Topic: 7mm v/s 7mmwsm (Read 1059 times)

tommyboy84 · « **on:** January 24, 2004, 05:22:10 PM »

Can any one give me the ballistics on a 7mm and a 7wsm? I'm looking for a new deer/elk rifel and was wondering if the wsm has enough power to be worth the extra $$$. Also how does the 7wsm compare to the 270wsm? Im looking for a nuge in either direction so fell free to tell me what you think..

j.trevor123 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2004, 05:30:55 PM »

i hve researched these new wsm.( but have not yet bought one). What i have heard from various sources i would go with a wsm. Look at it like this, the wsm matches the longer bullets almost exactly, But they do not have many diff grains etc. But the way i see it if the wsm's match it now then it can only get better not worse. They will probly design better bullets for these short mags. So if u get a wsm it cant get any worse than what the long mags or now. When i get a mag i will get a wsm. The ballistics between the 270 wsm and 7mmwsm are very very close to the same, but the 7mm have heavier bullets and a slight advantage with the same grains as the 270 ( 270 150gr. vs. 7mm 150 gr. etc) I would go with the 7mm over the 270 for elk. But both would do the job

Catahoula · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2004, 04:23:10 AM »

There is nothing the 7mm WSM will do that the 7mm Remington magnum won't. Ballistic performance is virtually identical. If you like the WSM, go for it. It will do anything you want it to do on elk sized game. If you are looking for a magic performance boost over the 7mm Rem mag, you won't find it.

tommyboy84 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2004, 05:37:46 AM »

thanks for the info.. yall say the ballistics are almost the same. where I live it is very commen for me to see a buck 400yds away on the other sid of the vally and I was wanting something that i can take a shot like that and not worrie about it. I was wanting to stay away from the 30cals so i wont mess up as much meat. I was thinking that the wsm might give me the performance that i want but i dont know, how doeas the 7Rum compare to the 7wsm? i know it will kick hearder but the extra performance might be worth it to me. thanx

gunnut69 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2004, 06:01:38 AM »

All the cartridges you've named will kill at 400 yards but you still have a need to worry. That's an awful long shot and the weak link will always be the shooter.. The WSM's created a niche. They filled only one true need, a new gimmick for the arms makers. The UltraMags burn tremendous amounts of powder for relatively small gains in velocity and few hunters are capable of using that exttra velocity to their advantage in the field. I would advise the 7mmRem Mag. Ammo's a lot easier to find and cheaper. Spend the ectra that the RUM ore the WSM would have cost and pratice.. and when you practice, shoot from field positions. The bench is great but only if one will be available in the field..

Muddyboots · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2004, 06:18:36 AM »

The 7 WSM will do almost anything the 7RM will do with one exception. It cannot shoot the 175's anywhere near same velocity due to OAL reduces powder case capacity. The 160 gr bullet will be close to the 7RM. Remember the manufacturers post up 7WSM velocity based upon 24" or 26" barrels whereas the 7RM usually is manufactured with a 26" barrel and no shorter than 24". If you noticed, many of the 7WSM's are made with 22" barrels which is less velocity. I like the 175's in the 7RM for elk since they will out penetrate most 30's (proven time and again due sectional density). They are extremely tough animals and don't always give you classic broadside shots. I want the bullet to penetrate through the animal for maximum bood trail along with transfering shock. The 175 does pretty well in this category. The 7RM is still in my opinion a better round simply due to its greater versatility for heavier bullets. If you have no intention of using them, them go for the 7 WSM but get longest barrel you can. Ammo availability will be problem for few years but is always available for the 7RM at most Mom & Pop places even gas stations. Or better still, get one of each.... :lol:
Muddyboots

Sask_Hunter · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2004, 08:32:19 AM »

when i got my 7 mag i didnt even think of getting the wsm. you cant go wrong with either caliber, just get the rifle that you want and the one that fits you best. most 7mm have 24 inch tubes same with the wsm. i dont buy in to the shorter stiffer action deal. if its done right it shouldnt mather what size action is but how good the rifle is put to gether.

i wouldnt even bother with the 175 or even the 160's. the bullets are so good now that a 140 or 150 barnes is all that is needed. put a good glass on top and mount it in soild rings. then have the triger worked on and bedded if need be.

Lawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2004, 10:46:20 AM »

tommyboy84,

Quote

Can any one give me the ballistics on a 7mm and a 7wsm? I'm looking for a new deer/elk rifel and was wondering if the wsm has enough power to be worth the extra $$$. Also how does the 7wsm compare to the 270wsm? Im looking for a nuge in either direction so fell free to tell me what you think..

Question? Did you mean the 7x57mm(7mm Mauser) or 7mm Rem. Mag.? There is a difference between the two. If as you stated you can have shots out to 400 yards then go with the magnum version. Both the 7mm Rem. Mag. and the 7mm WSM are great cartridges and are so very close in data it is really up to you and what you want. The WSM has the shorter bolt throw and a bit less recoil. If everything is equal(same weight rifle, bullet, barrel length and velocity) then the Rem. Mag. has about 3 more pounds of free recoil than the WSM. To me it is 6 of one nad half dozen of the other, it all depends on whether you want an old favotite or a new favorite. Lawdog

tommyboy84 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2004, 11:01:38 AM »

I just looked on remingtons web site and the only ammo avalible for the 7RUM is 140 grns. Is there any other company that makes ammo for the ultra? I dont like the idea of only haveing ONE choice for ammo. thanx

jhm · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2004, 11:32:51 AM »

Dollar for dollar you will be able to find a great used 7mm mag. for alot less than you will be able to get a new short mag., keep looking around the gunshops their are some great buys on the older mags where everyone traded in to be the first on the block to have the new gun that does the same thing as the older one.

JIM

Varmint Hunter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2004, 11:54:22 AM »

The WSM series of rifles are built on short actions. This is a selling feature, presumably, an accuracy enhancing feature. (short & stiff) The down side to these short actions is that these magnum cartridges really don't work with heavy bullets in short actions. The magazines don't accomodate the length of the longer bullets unless they are set unacceptably deep into the cartridge case.

Most factory loaded WSM ammo is loaded with mid-weight bullets for this reason. Frankly, the magnum cases are ideal for shooting the heavier bullets. However, if you're sure that you will ONLY want to shoot the mid-weights, I don't see a problem with the WSM's.

Any long action 7mag would be more versatile though. Ammo will also be much easier and cheaper to buy 7mm Rem mag.

Just my 2 cents - VH

jackD · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2004, 02:00:08 PM »

I have purchased a .300mag and 7mag in the last few years and didn't consider the wsm or rum, mainly because I don't reload and I can get just about anyting I want, where as with the others you are very limited on choices. I also like having the longer 26" barrell, all wsm's I've seen have around a 23" barrell. If your looking for a fast 7mm , I would look at the 7stw, I have one in a sendero and look it. It is faster than the 7mag with out much more recoil. Very comparable to the 7RUM, but does not have the recoil.

tommyboy84 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2004, 02:38:06 PM »

JackD........ I have never heard of a 7stw, can you give me some info on it like who makes it, what is it, and what is the differance between it and a 7 mag? Thanx

jackD · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2004, 03:26:56 PM »

Look around and you can find plenty of info on it. Check Chuckhawks.com, he has a good write up on it. It is an 8mm mag necked down to 7mm. It is about 200 fps faster than a 7mag, just about identical ballistics to the 7Rum, but doesn't have the recoil. I have a remington sendero sf, I know most company's chamber this caliber. It has become popular and has a good selection of factory ammo.

tommyboy84 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2004, 05:59:42 PM »

Ok guys i like what ive read about the 7stw but ive looked on remingtons and savages sites and they seem to have no guns listet in that cal

... So what do i have to do to get one? should i just go to a gun shop and have them to order me one?

gunnut69 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2004, 09:12:01 PM »

The 7STW is a badly overated round. It burns a lot more powder for little gain in velocity. The RUMs are it's kinfolk, and also are probably doomed. The short action mags will also fade.. I see no real need. Recoil is based of the performance of the rifle. Two rifles with the same bullets at the same velocities will recoil the same amount.. If the velocity is a bit less the recoil will be less. As I have said before the various standard 7mm Mags are about what most can handle well as for recoil and will kill very well indeed at ranges that most should never even consider taking a shot at. Still if you want a WSM/STW/RUM or whatever, get it. All will kill well and one can most likely buy all the ammo one will ever need.. After all none of these would ever be considered a plinker.

jackD · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2004, 01:22:46 AM »

Quote from: tommyboy84

Ok guys i like what ive read about the 7stw but ive looked on remingtons and savages sites and they seem to have no guns listet in that cal ... So what do i have to do to get one? should i just go to a gun shop and have them to order me one?

Remington makes the 700 sendero SF, that is hwat I have and really like it. I know winchestor, weatherby and Sako chamber it, and mayber more. Those were the ones I was looking at when I bought mine. I had to have my dealer order it for me.

Lawdog · « **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2004, 11:01:47 AM »

I agree with 'gunnut69' about the future of the RUM's and the STW line of cartridges and that they are way over rated. Where we disagree is the longevity of the WSM line of cartridges. They are selling way to well for them to disappear any time in the near future. As for the RSAUM line then I do agree that they are doomed. Winchester just flat out beat Remington to the punch in the short cartridge field. Lawdog

Wolfe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2004, 05:08:42 PM »

They need to make a .25 Caliber WSM. NOT a wssm. They'd have something there I think.

Lawdog · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2004, 08:54:24 AM »

Wolfe,

The .257 WSM was reported(in at least one gun rag) to be what Winchester WAS going to announce at the S.H.O.T. Show along with a .338 WSM. Winchester crossed everyone up with the introduction of the .25 WSSM. Of course Winchester has done this before. Everyone though they would release a .30 caliber magnum based on the .264, .338 and .458 magnum case. Sort of a .30-338, which a lot of us went ahead and had one made up(I sold mine a number of years ago). WRONG!! Winchester comes out with their own design, the .300 Winchester Magnum that we know today. Lawdog

Toolpush · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:15:01 PM »

I think that if someone had the SAMMI spec on the pressure of the two rounds you could see how the shorties get their numbers. The loads have more pressure for the short mags than the old Mags that we have used for years.

If in 25+ years of reloading this(short mag pressures) has been the amount of pressure that I have been taught to avoid. I don't believe that a short fat case is going to change the laws of physics. You want to go faster build a bigger boiler room. You can't afford the powder get a smaller case or shoot less.

When some ammo company loads up bad batch (they are human too) and a bunch of bolts gets stuck or some poor working joe blows something up on a hot summer afternoon the Lawyers will get rich again. and the ammo makers will back it off a notch again. Brass will only stand up to so much.

I to bought a Sendero in 7mm STW. Hand loaded I can safely clock 140 gr serria's @ 3400fps. Put a right big scope on it . It weighs a bunch compared to my other rifles. Would I tote that rig up a mountain? 4377 NO! as long as I had something else that would shoot hard enough to kill what I went up there for. Why did I buy a 7mm STW? Why do some guys build hot rods. It was my hot rod.

If you can handle the recoil why not get a good handling 300 Win mag. sight in 3" high at a hundred. Load it with 180 gr bullets. And if you got to hold above the hair line. It is to far to shoot for most folks. I think that you will find that those 180's have enough punch and shoot nice and flat for the first quarter mile. This would be a rifle you carry a lot more than you shoot.

To answer your question: Stay with the standard mags.

Lawdog · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2004, 09:29:44 AM »

Toolpush,

The pressure ratings for the .300 Win. Mag. is about the same as the ratings for the .300 WSM when using the same weight bullets at the same velocity( around 61,000 lbs.). It dose not seem that the velocity is coming from greater pressure. Lawdog