Need help on a 223 what kind name brand rifle

[varmit_master]

I am looking at a Rem 700 ADL or a Savage model 11 and maybe a Win model 70 i dont know much about Win rifles i do about Rem and Savage  in the Rem it has a 24 inch barrel and the Savage has a 22 inch barrel will the 2 inch make a diff i will be reloading and wanting to shoot 50grv-max or BT 50gr bullets  will take any help i can get VM

[DirtyHarry]

VM,
I have experience with all three,

 my brother in law just got the savage M11 FXP3 in 22-250. It is the one that comes bore sighted with a scope. That is by far the worst rifle I have ever fired. Out of the box from 25 yards I could not hit a 3ftX3ft cardboard target :shock: It took 20 shells to get 4 inch groups, with my handloads I got it down to 2.5 in groups. I told him I would send that puppy back right now, he says he can live with the 2.5inch groups :eek:
I think this rifle is the exception and not the rule though.


The m70's I have owned and used were all good shooters, but I just didnt like the feel of them. They just dont seem to fit me well.

I am going to go with the remington ,but I am biased toward remington

[Zachary]

Let me just say that, out of the three, I recommend the Remington.

As for you question on barrel length, although 2" will not make a huge difference, I have a strong preference for 24" barrels.

Zachary

[Eagle Eye]

I would go with a Remington in any model.  They feel good, look good and they shoot good.   Shoulder one and then shoulder a Savage and you will see why Remington is number one.  They are easy to customize, have excellent triggers and a worldwide reputation for accuracy.  Remington's also hold their value as well.  

IMO, Savage rifles shoot good but are butt ugly.  I don't like the looks of the actions nor the sloppy bolt.  The stocks are not shaped properly and feel like a 2x4.  Look like them too.   :eek:

[Zachary]

I really don't have an issue with Savages being ugly - my main issue with Savages is that they just feel sloppy.  I just HATE to work the bolt on a Savage - it kinda feels like it was put together by an 8 year old. :roll:

I say this because, if my Remingtons were ugly, and I mean JUST ugly, then I would still buy them because they are a much better gun than a Savage.

Don't get me wrong, I like pretty guns too, but the most important thing for me is quality and accuracy.  Dip a Savage in gold and sprikle it with diamonds and I would still take a Remington over it.

Zachary

[varmit_master]

thanks guys i have a Rem 700 ADL 22 250 it would shoot ok out of the box 1 1/2 group But it could have done better so i took it to the gunsmith and he done a trigger job glass beded the action and floated the barrel and poilsh the crown and NOW it will almost shoot a one hole group  that i can cover easy with a dime But i had to spend some extra money on it to get it to shoot that way and scare if i get another ADL i will have to have all the work done to it on the Rem does the ammo feed good out of the clip i am a Rem Fan! i have a Rem 700 BDL ss with DM in a 300 wby and i love it after hearing that about the Savage model 11 that gun scares me now if i just new that i wouldnt have to have that work done to another ADL i know which one i would buy it would be the Rem. VM

[Eagle Eye]

All it should need is a trigger job...$25.

[varmit_master]

Hi and thanks can you float the barrel with out having to beded the action VM

[RWH24]

Quality Wise my choices would be:

#!  TIKKA

2    HOWA

#3  CZ


Price wise as a package gun:

Howa
Blue Synthetic w/scope  $325.00+/-

Randy

[woodseye]

I listen to the Savage naysayers and grin to myself. Since Savage has become employee owned they have turned quality control around 100%, I have over six Savages that shoot under 1" out of the box and NONE have these much mentioned "sloppy" bolts. I believe if there are any such guns they are sold as cheap package guns by the large box stores. The two sporter weights I am currently working up loads for are shooting 1/2" and 3/4" respectfully and bolts are quite smooth. The "ugly" barrel nut that allows instant head spacing adjustment is quite handy in my book and helps get those "bug hole"  targets. Along with pillar bedding, floating barrels, and the BEST trigger in a production gun with the accu-trigger, I find them to be real bargins for accuracy, an accurate gun is an interesting gun  :wink:  As for Remington even the stalwarts admit to badly sliding quality along with built-in locks and that lawsuit prone AD walker trigger   :cry: .

    woods

[gunnut69]

A discussion of 'best' brands among a group of rifle cranks is like aurguing religion or politics, long, loud and usually without end.  Still here I am, wading in.  The Savages are usually real shooters, right from the box.  The accutrigger is wondrous..  The remington is a great rifle but I believe right now they are running mainly on their reputation, their QC sucks...  Winchester has an adjustable trigger, shoots just fine but has the worst consept in bedding I have ever seen.  They use a glob of hot glue material for bedding compound.  The featherweight stock style is a fantastic light sporter design and the M70 has aurguably the best safety ever designed.  It allows the rifle to be unloaded while the striker remains locked and the bolt to be locked down when carried to avoid having it opened partially and experiencing a missfire.  All the manufacturers have been having QC problems with Remington seemingly the worst.  Winchester had a lot of problems too but they've usually tried their best to make it right..  I prefer the M70 in whatever style is appropriate for the task at hand..

[Eagle Eye]

Woodseye....Subjective opinion about a product is just that, subjective.  I don't like Savage firearms for subjective reasons.  I refuse to buy any product that to my eye, is ugly.  I don't care if it groups 1/2 MOA at 500 yards....I still think they are butt ugly and would never bring one home or be seen carrying one at the range.  Same goes for being seen in any GM product, but that is another matter.   :eek:   It isn't just the actions either....the stocks don't seem to fit right or feel good when shouldered.  I don't care for the angle of the pistol grip or the thickness of the grip.  They seem crudely made.  Again, that is my opinion but one gained over a 30+ year history of buying lots and lots of firearms and spending countless hours studying the products that are available.
 
As for your slight against Remington....we all read about "objective" concerns regarding Remington but I have yet to experience it directly.  This after owning more Remingtons than any other make, hands down.  I am sure that there are some bad ones just like any man made object but all the ones I have owned have been VG to excellent in every way.  For example, my latest purchase is a Remington Mountain Rifle in 25-06 with a Leupold 3x9x40 on top.  Fit and finish is excellent.  They are handsome, well designed trim easy carrying rifles.  They shoulder nicely and fit well.  Mine is now six months old and has now had over 100 rounds put through it.   Yesterday, while testing a reload with 100 grain Nosler Partition bullets, it shot .49 at 100 yards with three rounds.  I hope you'll agree that is rather good considering it is a very lightweight hunting rifle with a pencil thin barrel that isn't even free floated.  On top of that, I was using bullets not known for guilt-edged accuracy, even on a good day.  As for the Remington triggers, I prefer them to any other.   They break cleanly and the lock time is one of the fastest out there.  The J-lock you mention is of no consequence to me since it does not have to be used at all.  I have a vault so I don't need them, but others may.  Besides that, it is your country that is so hell bent on sueing manufacturers for any little reason so what do you expect Remington to do when they needliability insurance?  The alternative is to stop selling firearms and I hope you would agree we would all loose if that were to happen.   Also, they aren't the only firearm maker to have a built in lock...Sako also has them but again, it matters not to me.  

Anyway, I have vented for today.   :shock:

[mulerider]

Own and shoot Remingtons and Coopers, but am seriously considering a CZ for my next rifle. I have never used a Savage Accutrigger, but the CZ set trigger is joy to use. CZ's out of the box accuracy has been fantastic for all I've seen.

[woodseye]

Like you say Eagle........its all subjective and we just view things 180 degrees apart...........grin. Because your walker trigger hasn't malfunctioned don't mean they are not costing Remington a good deal of money settling lawsuits instead of correcting the design. You don't want to be seen with a Savage and I find Remingtons quality control and trigger design lacking. The only interesting rifle is an accurate rifle.

Relax..........remember we're only being subjective in our likes and dislikes about rifles, so to each his own. We'd send ya up some lawyers, but you guys got enough problems with your goverment seeming bent on gun control.

     woods  

[Eagle Eye]

I guess you missed my point....my Remington's are nice looking and they are accurate too.  Best of both worlds.  Fact is, I have never owned a rifle of any make that I couldn't make to shoot at least 1 MOA.  That is the benefit of reloading and diligence.

As for the triggers, if they were as bad as you make them out to be, their liability insurance provider would not cover them without changes.  Besides, from what I understand, most of the reported issues relate to improperly "do it yourself" adjusted triggers.

[woodseye]

Didn't miss the point at all...........if MOA is what you shoot for sounds like you're doing good. Read and study up some if you want to discuss the walker connector design trigger and we can discuss why trigger adjustment is not the root cause, the design is. They can't change it as that would be admitting a design fault and bring on more expense. Sounds like your happy with Remingtons......Enjoy.

     Good Shooting  woods

[Eagle Eye]

I never said I settle for 1 MOA but that is certainly good enough for any hunting class rifle.   My Remington 700P in 308 shoots .38 MOA on a bad day.  

As for the triggers, we can debate it all day but it is comforting to note that the US military and most police forces use the Remington platform for their sniping rifles.  Furthermore, most custom rifles use Remington actions.  besides my Johnson is much bigge than your Johnson.  

[varmit_master]

Hi do you thing the price will go up 75.00 on the new model 11 Savage's with the new trigger  and i like the look of the ADL all black matte finish the Savage is blued isnt it VM

[SC hog hunter]

VM,
     Don't forget the twist rate on the Savage is 1:9 and the Remington is 1:12.  It may be easier to make the Rem shoot the lighter bullets well.  In reality though my Savage loves the Sierra 50 gr blitz and about 4000 rounds ago was shooting them into .25 inch.  Now, after several prairie dog trips to Montana and sage rat trips to Oregon it shoots about 1.25 inch. Also, the Savage has a "floating" bolt face which does seem to help in the accuracy dept. but makes it difficult to have any accuracy work done by a gunsmith.  In my experience, good gunsmiths love to work on the Rem. ie. lap lugs, recut threads, square face etc.  They'll tell you not to even bother sending them a Savage.  I think Savage has redesigned the trigger which may or may not be better than the old one.  I had to replace my trigger with a Sharpshooter trigger at $100.  In retrospect, I wish I had bought the remington now because I'd have another 700 action on which to build a new rifle. Food for thought.  SC hog hunter

[varmit_master]

Thanks hog hunter i am wanting to shoot 50gr v-max's so do you think the way to go would be the Rem ADL 700 it has 24 inch barrel and the Savage has a 22 inch barrel i dont want to go bigger than a 50gr bullet in a 223 and both rifles r about the same price VM

[dbuck]

VM,

Just ordered a new Remington 700 VS 223 with a 26" Barrel.  It has a H&S varmint stock with full-length aluminum bedding blocks.  Purchased it at Gander Mountain for 704.00 and I won't look back.  You can purchase allot of different aftermarket products for this rifle if you want and that's why I like it and for varmints I love the barrel length.

dbuck

[Bubba Jack]

I ave a 700 VS in 22-250, close to a .223. I love mine. It will shoot factory Hornady's 55 v max real good. Say 10 shots in a 3/4" hole at 100yds. I did have to work on the trigger, but got it down to 2 1/4 pounds. I would like to put a jewel trigger in it. That would make it complete for me!!!

Pick what you like and feels good to you. Buy the best you can afford and you will be happy! Most of these rifles can shoot better than the shooter.

Have lots of fun shooting it!!! whatever you choose.

Bubba Jack

[varmit_master]

Hi guys i had a Rem 700 VSSF in a 22 250 with a old tasco 8x32x40mm with the dot BEST shooting gun i have ever own and my wife siad it was to heavy for her so i sold it and now you how many times i have kick myself for saleing it i have a REM 700 ADL 22 250 right now i like it because it is all black i think i will get a 223 just like it VM

[RaySendero]

Hey v_m,

Check this out:  CZ 527 Varmint

[varmit_master]

Hi i went today and order  the Rem. 700 ADL 223 i got a GOOD buy on it thanks for every bodys help VM

[RaySendero]

v-m,

Sinse you have order one I tried to delete my post showing the CZ Varmint.  Seemed the polite this to do but I could not edit/delete the post.  I'm an Mt refuge and was able to delete my own personal posts there.

Mr. Graybeard,

This edit/delete function is useful as it helps keep the board cleaned-up and the size down somewhat.  Please consider adding it to you board.

PS: Rolltide

[Coyote Hunter]

varmint_master –

I just sold a Savage 110E in .22-250 that Dad had given me some years ago.  Although it was butt-ugly it shot 5-shot 100 yard groups I could cover with a dime.  Until, that is, I finally wore the barrel out.
The newer Savages are much better in the cosmetic department, have a reputation for being great out-of-the-box shooters, and I would certainly consider another.

My replacement for the Savage was a Ruger M77 MKII VT (Varmint/Target) .22-250 – heavy barrel, target-gray stainless, etc. It’s a great gun, both cosmetically and as a shooter.

If you haven’t considered a Ruger, you might want to.  Every Ruger I have worked with has been a .5 MOA rifle, and the work never consisted of more than free-floating the barrel (with sandpaper looped around a Magic Marker) and working up handloads.  (My VT was free-floated at the factory and was a shooter using loads developed for the Savage.)

One of the things I really like about the Rugers is the scope mounting system.  Each Ruger comes with rings, and the bases are milled into the receiver.  My Ruger 7mm Mag, a mule and two logs conspired to demonstrate just how strong the Ruger mounting system is.  Basically I landed with the Ruger and scope between my ribs and one of the logs, breaking two ribs in the process.  The scope stayed put and didn’t even lose its zero.  There is no doubt in my mind that a more conventional mounting system (the kind that use itty-bitty screws to attach the base) would have snapped off.

The only downside to a Ruger, IMHO, is the MKII’s don’t have an adjustable trigger.

[varmit_master]

Hi and thanks Coyote Hunter my dad has a Ruger in a 270 and i dont like the bolt on a Ruger that much dont take it bad i dont like them the first 22 250 i ever owned was a Savage 110 it was a good shooting gun but the stock wasnt that good it was wood wish it would have been a syn. stock BUT i sold it but it was a good shooting gun if i was going to get another heavy barrel gun it would be the Rem 700 VSSF in a 22 250 the best shooting gun i have ever had VM