Broken and stuck firing pin when using Encore Black Powder barrel

[BubbaNColo]

I discovered sticky or seized opening of action while using the TC 50 caliber BP barrel.
I found the firing pin tip was broken off, I believe this is due to either 209 primer fouling or fouling from the black powder itself blowing back out around the 209 primer cup. I noticed the firing pin would stick forward if I would push it with my finger, with barrel off.
I replaced firing pin and spring, and was able to get rifle up and running again, thou I noticed within 2 shots the firing pin would stick again.
 
I see older posts regarding same topic but website suggested I start a new thread.
If I clean the firing pin after each session at range this will help but in the field having the firing pin stick after two rounds isn't going to work.
 
I'm using Rem 209 primers and 90 grains of 777, pretty light load. I see on other thread it was suggested to use 777 209 primer. Being a Engineer I could leave well enough alone and wanted to ask a couple of questions:
Is it possible that the threaded cap with 209 cup is seated too deep into barrel and is allowing 209 primer to back out too far when we fire the gun and this allows fouling to collect on firing pin. Seems to be a huge design screw up in my mind....I've got a old Thunderhawk which using a one piece bolt with nipple built into bolt face, so there was no firing pin to foul out. I was looking at other TC, Knight, etc inline blackpowder rifles and they all have gone to this firing pin design. So maybe the Encore design is not the problem maybe it's the distance between my breach cap and the firing pin/face of the action???
 
Any thoughts, suggestions??

[bigdaddyd]

I am having the same problem with rem 209 primers and 2 white hot pellets. I sure hope someone has a fix.

[lastivoryhunter]

I had the same problem early on when using CCI primers and replaced 2 firing pins. For reasons unknown to me I have not had a problem since when using the Winchester 777 primers. In regard to the breech plug seating you may have the opposite issue that you mentioned in that if there is any debris keeping it from seating all the way down the firing pin will go into the primer to far and may have difficulty retracting which will prevent your rifle from opening and you will find yourself having to jiggle the rifle to free the pin and break it open.
Tony
 

[lastivoryhunter]

Also in thinking back in addition to switching to the Winchester 777 primers I had also purchased a TC breech thread cleaning tool which is nothing more than a hard piece of threaded plastic which you screw down tightly with the TC breech plug wrench to clean the threads and the seat, I also replaced the plug itself at this time as I had purchased the ML barrel used. As noted in my previous post, just like you I broke 2 pins in a few shots. I do oil the pin when cleaning my rifle, and have fired at least a hundred shots with out the problem recurring.
Tony

[BubbaNColo]

I use the thread cleaning tool every time. The primer hit seems to be normal in depth. My experiments I started with clean firing pin cavity etc, I would test the firing pins ability to move in and out. Then I would shoot two rounds, I didn't have issues opening the action. But when I did the firing pin test again it stuck. I imagine I'm pushing pin further in that it normally can go under live fire. I'm only pushing very light with a small screw driver. I disassembed the action and removed the firing pin cup and inspected the pin and it was fouled and would stick. I cleaned it up and it worked fine. I did note that you can't clean this with WD40 or Brake Clean with action assembled, only the TC bore cleaner works and works fast.
 
I will try 777 209 primers.
This issue has kept me from considering other TC inline black powder rifles like the Omega which my friends all use. Cost of Omega is nuts!
Thanks for your suggestions and I'll give 777 a try!
 
 

[scratcherky]

I had the same problem with Rem 209 primers. I switched to 777 primers with 100 grains of 777 powder and the problem went away. Those Rem primers are very dirty.

[lastivoryhunter]

BubbaNColo  Please let us know of your findings after changing primers, I had posted a while back about this issue and it had seemed others had also experienced it, perhaps you can shed some light on what exactly is happening, my impression was that the pin was actually getting stuck in the CCI primer I was using, I am curious to know why the Winchester 777 primers work better, are they cleaner burning, or a softer metal. Thanks.

[BubbaNColo]

BubbaNColo  Please let us know of your findings after changing primers, I had posted a while back about this issue and it had seemed others had also experienced it, perhaps you can shed some light on what exactly is happening, my impression was that the pin was actually getting stuck in the CCI primer I was using, I am curious to know why the Winchester 777 primers work better, are they cleaner burning, or a softer metal. Thanks.

My primer dents aren't any deeper than I would expect. What I saw when I worked the dirty firing pin was that when you push the pin forward and release, it would stick with about about a .050 sticking out. Which just happens to be the rounded tip of firing pin. On mine which was broke I compared the length of the broke pin to the new pin and it looks like that amount is what broke off. I was assuming that the pin was catching on part of the barrel when I opened it and it would sheer it off. Now that doesn't explain the lockup in action. I was getting a complete lockup, which could very well be pin being stuck in 209 primer. I found no leaks out of the primer face thou so still feel the problem lies in the fouling leaking out around the primer itself which is getting into firing pin cavity. In fact as I remember when I looked at the breach face of action, after two shots I found fouling all round the firing pin hole. Thou you could see that the 209 had back up and left a circle in the firing pin area because it left a round spot and all the fouling was around that. So the primer is backed up against the breach face like I'd expect. So either the 209 is not long enough to seal the hole in breach plug allowing gas to escape out around the primer OR my breach plug is too far into the barrel allowing too much room between the primer and action which allows the primer to back out and leak. I use the breach plug thread cleaner and have gotten into the habit of just snugging the breach plug rather than cranking it down hard. Maybe the 777 209 is longer in length or cleaner burning or both.
 
But you might be right the primer is actually leaking out the strike dent. I do know that removing the primer is a pain in the butt, it will stick hard. I've removed my extractor so that it would be easier to clean the barrel. I wonder if putting the extractor back in would fix this issue, meaning it would back the primer out and return the firing pin to the rested postion. Of course you still having foul build up on firing pin which has to hurt you sometime down the road.
 
It's cold here and I'll probably not take the smoke pole out for a few months. So it might be a while before I respond. It's amazing TC hasn't produced some note or improvement for this issue. I'll have to admit I've not worked with any tech at the new S&W center. I really do miss talking to the old TC crew! They were great. I would think this would be the case for all these new inline BP which are using a firing pin and cup design. So I'm amazed the Encore is the only one I hear about having this problem, thou I only have feedback from my other hunting buddys using the Omega and Rem 209 primers. I do know that using 777 powder is super easy to clean up! So it stand to reason if I switch to 777 primers it will help.