The M1895 in 40/65 WCF at Long Range

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen,

Today, thngs having warmed up to 40 degrees, I took the M1895 Marlin out for the first time in 2004.

This rifle is barreled up to 40/65 from the original 45/70 using a take-off barrel from an older rifle. I told the gunsmith to leave it as heavy as possible but still hang the magazine tube. With 24 inches of heavy barrel the rifle is a nice carry.

I have a custom staff for the Williams receiver sight, a Lyman 17A on the front and sight settings out to 834 yards with the 385 grain SAECO 65640. I had 50 rounds loaded and fine conditions for the shooting.

Here, we have a range with 10 steel targets starting from 395 yards on out to 834. It is my drill to move from one distance to the next and see how many hits I may get from a box of fifty rounds, five per distance, no sighters.

The deal here is to simulate the Quigley style shooting: Known distances, but unknown conditions, no sighters or foulers, sit down and shoot off the cross stick rest, any hit that rings, counts.

I wasn't shooting solo today: A couple fellows with their new Sharps replicas were there too with their fancy $400 MVA tang sights and spirit-level fronts, shooting the same course of fire.. We spotted for one another and had a fine afternoon. The old lever rifle "won" the day easily, even though we didn't really keep count.

Lever rifles forever, good evening,
Forrest

[stocker]

Tell me more about the custom staff for your Williams sight. I don't know if we are referring to the same thing or not, but I have been trying to convince assorted manufacturers to provide a folding vertical slide type eyepiece that could be installed on the typical Lyman and Williams receiver sights. Nothing but yawns from them.

I visualize one that resembles the rangeing  sight that came on some Lee Enfields and Enfields or the more elegant verniers.

I'd love to be able to flip that puppy up, quickly adjust for range according to predetermined index marks and go to it.

If that's similar to what you have where did you obtain it?

A good evening to you too.

[FAsmus]

Stocker;

S: Tell me more about the custom staff for your Williams sight..

F:  The custom staff is a one-off item from a friend's machine shop.

I wanted to go long range shooting with the rifle and fiddled around with various home-made extentions to the receiver sight that enabled me to shoot at extended distances enough to know that the rifle was capable of good performance out there.

Then I asked my firend to make a tall staff for my rather primative Williams base, the one that has no adjustment screws at all but just the slot with a binder screw for elevation.

He made a staff, graduated in degrees and minutes that looks professional and provides a full three degrees of elevation. The windage slot was cut to provide a full degree of left-right adjustment either side of zero at the same time. These additional limits of travel are plenty for any long range shooting I've ever tried.

In operation the sight is kind of clumsy when compared to the current Soule tang sights of various manuafacter. This is because I have to loosen the binder screws whenever I want to change sight settings, move the sight by hand (very carefully) and re-tighten the binder screws. It is do-able but, as I say, rather slow. On the other hand, once set, the sight is solid and very reliable. My sight settings for given distances repeat exactly. I can step up to the firing line, set the sight and know what to expect every time.

I would have installed a tang sight on the rifle but could not figure out how to avoid the sight interfering with the throw of the bolt as the action was operated.

Your idea for the sliding eye piece sounds fine. The reaction of Lyman and Williams, predictable.

On the firing line at the long range matches I attend I have seen M1895s equipped with Springfield type ladder sights, fixed to the receiver by use of the scope mounting holes. Not a bad idea. It looks kind of strange but enables the rifles to be used at long range.

What sort of shooting do you do with your rifle? And perhaps, what kind of shooting would you like to try out?

Good morning,
Forrest

[stocker]

Fasmus; Our local range is restricted to 300 yards and I am mainly shooting bullseye and hunting with the rifle (45-70, 1886ELR). The rifle has a Williams Foolproof on it. That sight which is so practical for a flat shooting rifle is not so good for high trajectory bullets. I occasionally slip into a military range that is only used seasonally for longer range shooting.

Variations in bullet (325 and 425 grain cast) require significant zero changes and with two screws to loosen and one more to to do the adjustment it is too slow and not easily repeatable. And when you're done you are basically only sighted in at the range you were working on at the time.

Anyhow it occured to me that if the present eyepiece holder could be removed from it's long screw and another fold down vernier slide type eyepiece put in its place this would allow a fair bit of wiggle room for range use. Better yet, replace the whole sight other than the base which is left on the rifle.

For hunting I would retain the original eyepiece and adjustment staff. I have no desire to try to make a long range deer rifle out of this rig.

An option would be to get a Marbles tang or a custom tang vernier but this is a light rifle with heavy recoil in some loads and I just don't cotton to having it that close to my eye. May have to try one of them yet though  and use it only with moderate loads.

 I think the Lyman receiver sight embodies the push button staff release and it would be better than the Williams in that regard  if it works like an old one I have on a M/70 as you only have to push the spring loaded button and slide the staff up or down to a predetermined location. I haven't actually seen a current production Lyman 66WB to know if it functions in that manner.  If you have one or have seen one perhaps you can advise.

There are two (I think) companies making the carbine style open sight with flip up slide. One of them even has an aperture in their long range slide as well as a notch. I think the need for a quickly adjustable sight for range was recognized and dealt with a long time ago for these calibers. It's just a matter of carrying the concept over to the micrometer style receiver sight.

Best

[FAsmus]

Stocker,

It sounds to me as if something fairly simple as I had made up for the M1895 before the custom staff was built would be just the ticket for your closer distances.

I had the typical Lyman receiver sight but I made a simple insert for the apperature hole, tightened it in there with a bolt and nut. This attached a 1/2 inch extention the the staff which was in turn threaded for apperatures. ( I wish I had a drawing)

Thus, when I ran out of elevation with the normal elvation screw I just lowered the staff, attached the 1/2 extention, screwed in the same apperature and I had an additional 1/2 inch (or nearly a full degree) of elevation using the same sight, same everything, just adding three simple parts.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

[stocker]

Fasmus: I have considered something very similar using a staff from a P-17 which would allow the slide to be quickly adjusted. I have to get my hands on one and follow through. With it fitted properly (may need a simple horizontal piece silver soldered on the bottom to keep it stable on the sight ) it may be possible to use without changing the 100 yard zero normally maintained with this rifle. It would be a quick on and off with a lot of available adjustment. Something to play with any how.

We strayed from your original topic which was your 40-65. Sounds like a well thought out conversion and you should get a lot of enjoyment from it.
Have you tried any paper patched through it?

Best

[FAsmus]

Stocker,

S:  I have considered something very similar using a staff from a P-17 which would..

F: Sure, anything like that should work just fine.

S: Have you tried any paper patched through it?

F: Interesting that you should ask!

This is a recycled 40 barrel and when it was on the Ballard action I did do some shooting with PP. I even had fair success with the procedure and like the basic idea a good deal. My trouble is the terrible time consuming process of patching all those bullets and I did not continue.

Now, with the barrel on a different rifle, with a new and different chamber cut into, it I am again interested in trying PP. I cast up 50 bullets, ready to patch just the other day but have not found time to patch them yet.

My "project gun" this year is to build a "Big Fifty" as a purpose-built 1000 yard gun. For this long range shooting I plan on making up a PP load since PP bullets have certain advantages over the grease groove designs.

Good morning,
Forrest