To Scope or Not to Scope?

[Mauserfan]

Hello everyone.  This is my first post on here so go easy...rookie bashfulness.  My wife bought me an H&R Handi in 45-70 this past week...lovely woman.  My quandry is whether or not to scope the weapon.  My reason for wanting the rifle is a nastalgic desire to shoot another 45-70 as I once owned a BC, and to hunt white tail deer in Arkansas.  On my BC I used a Williams Fool Proof Receiver Sight.  While this was great for the range I never shot it in a hunting situation.  It seemed wrong to scope a BC so when it left me it was still a peep sighted rifle.  Now that I have the more "handi" of the two it will be used more often.  So what to do and which "economical" scope will hold up to the abuse should I go in that direction? 

[siamese4570]

Mauserfan: Had the williams foolproof set up on my 4570 except that I had a fire-site fiber optic front site on it.  The sights were useable and legal shooting light (30 min before legal sun-up).  Hunted with it for years that way but finally scoped it with a 2x leupold and recently replaced it with a leupold compact 4x.  The only time it ever failed me was an overcast early morning taking a shot thru the dark woods,  Just wasn't enough light to see the front sight against the target.  Worked 99% of the tme. 
siamese4570
 

[petemi]

I bought my first  Handi, the .45-70, used.  It came with a 3-9x50 Simmons Golden Antler.  It's held up to hundreds of 405 gr. loads running 1950 fps.  It worked, and I never saw a need to change it.  On the other hand, the bulk of our rifles are scoped with Bushnell Banners.  We like them.  They carry a modest price tag and never had problems with any of them.  I don't have the open sight option, old eyes.

Pete

[kevinsmith5]

What ranges and Terrain will you hunt?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk

[Jimbo47]

My old eyes won't let me hunt with a peep sight or any open sights for that matter, so ya gotta do what you gotta do!
 
I recently pieced mine together from the classifieds, and sitting on top is a Bushnell Banner, just like Pete said!

[twoshooter]

Same reply as for the 500 thread above. I have had good fortune with Simmons Master Pro-Diamond shotgun scopes. I know they are not Zeiss, or Leupold , but they have held up well for me. I use the 4X fixed power, it is light , very clear, bright, and very inexpensive. If I could afford a nice Leupold with a #3 German reticle I would, I could also probably afford a Ruger Alaskan 375 then. But I collect Handi's. You can always upgrade later,

[cwlongshot]

Hello everyone.  This is my first post on here so go easy...rookie bashfulness.  My wife bought me an H&R Handi in 45-70 this past week...lovely woman.  My quandry is whether or not to scope the weapon.  My reason for wanting the rifle is a nastalgic desire to shoot another 45-70 as I once owned a BC, and to hunt white tail deer in Arkansas.  On my BC I used a Williams Fool Proof Receiver Sight.  While this was great for the range I never shot it in a hunting situation.  It seemed wrong to scope a BC so when it left me it was still a peep sighted rifle.  Now that I have the more "handi" of the two it will be used more often.  So what to do and which "economical" scope will hold up to the abuse should I go in that direction?

WELCOME!!
 
No need to be bashful round here we are all friends!
 
As our friends have saud, its gonna boil down to how good your peepers are. If good, peeps or factory openers are or can be quite good. If not or you would like magnafication go for the scope!
 
CW

[Mauserfan]

Hey guys thanks for the responses.  I believe I will scope this one for help shooting in the field as well as ease with testing handloads.  This is an emotional separation from open sights for me.  For the longest time I held onto my pride since shooting John Garand matches and Across the Course with a Service Rifle.  But my eyes have been slowly getting fuzzy.  And with the price of the 45 cal bulldozer I dont know that I would be happy with a lot of fliers.  The shotgun scope is a good idea since 100 yards is a long shot where I hunt. 

[rangerwillie]

if your eyes are getting "fuzzy" and your still hunting with open sights...... well, a leg  or gut shot deer can go far enough that you wont find them. Get a scope and be humane with a well placed shot

[keith44]

Welcome to the board Mauserfan!!


The 45-70 is a great choice in the Handi. When scoped they are easier to shoot past the 50 yard mark in all legal shooting hours, and help you to "pick a spot" instead of just shooting "'bout there".  So with the slightly fuzzy sight picture, yes scope it.  The shotgun scope with extended eye relief is a great choice.

[spikehorn]

+1 with twoshooter The Simmons pro diamond 4X32 shotgun scope, spend a little extra and get the master series. Great glass for the money.

[OldSchoolRanger]

I say scope it. 

I have two 45-70's, one wears a Nikon Omega (1.65-5x36), the other is iron sighted.  The iron sights are good to 75 yards , the scoped one is better out to 100 yards.

Even better the Omega is on sale for $99 at Natchez.

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=NK8443&src=tpSlrHm

[cwlongshot]

Hey guys thanks for the responses.  I believe I will scope this one for help shooting in the field as well as ease with testing handloads.  The shotgun scope is a good idea since 100 yards is a long shot where I hunt.

OK good plan!
 
Don't be deceived, a "shotgun" scope is merely a moniker for a scope with a bit more eye relief and parallax set at about 75 yards. Sometimes a special reticule may be heavier. But aside from the heavier cross-hairs, its not something that gonna severely limit longer shots. One of my 45-70 Handis wears a 2x7 Leupold VXII "Shotgun" scope with heavy duplex. I have shot it out to 200 yards with good groups.
 
CW

[blind ear]

As CW says, you can see later with scope cross hairs. Get the heaviest cross hairs.
 
To take a "fine aim point" with a heavy cross hair use the point of a quadrant where the hairs meet, where the lighted lens comes to a point at the cross hairs intersection. You don't have to worry about covering the target with the cross hairs, 1/4 of the target will always be visible. Choose the same quadrant point every time on all different guns/scopes.
 
No matter how small the target, you can see at least 1/4 of the target and the point of the light field is your aim point. I always use the top left quadrant for habit and consistency. (@ 6oo to 1000 yd that quadrant gives you best use per bullet crawl due to bullett yaw and gravitational effect, not that I shoot that range any it is just for habit.) I would draw a picture but I don't know how to on a computer.
 
Another good thing to do, after you find a round that shoots tight enough to suit you and you have done all the tips in the FAQs and Handy 101, is start with a cold barrel and shoot until the barrel is hot. This will tell you if you are getting heat expansion walk. If the impact point creeps as the gun heats up you know that you have to have a stone cold zero for hunting.
 
You can certainly see the heavy cross hairs a little later.
 
good luck. ear

[quickdtoo]

Don't be deceived, a "shotgun" scope is merely a moniker for a scope with a bit more eye relief and parallax set at about 75 yards. 
CW

Not all shotgun scopes are set to be parallax free at 75yds, some are set at 100yds the same as rifle scopes, the Nikon Prostaff and Weaver 4x32 are a couple that I know of. 

Tim

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Products/Riflescopes/6720/ProStaff-Shotgun-Hunter-2-7x32-Matte-BDC-200.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=WE849421

[cwlongshot]

Don't be deceived, a "shotgun" scope is merely a moniker for a scope with a bit more eye relief and parallax set at about 75 yards. 
CW

Not all shotgun scopes are set to be parallax free at 75yds, some are set at 100yds the same as rifle scopes, the Nikon Prostaff and Weaver 4x32 are a couple that I know of. 

Tim

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/Products/Riflescopes/6720/ProStaff-Shotgun-Hunter-2-7x32-Matte-BDC-200.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=WE849421

The yardages are getting longer as the technology improves. With better and more humane long range performance afforded with modern propellants and projectiles... My point is, shorter parallax settings are a large part of what makes a "shotgun" scope. (Weather it is 75, 80 or 100yards, its less than a conventional rifle scope. Rifle scopes are generally parallax set at 150 yards.) The other is more or longer eye relief. To a lesser amount specialized reticules. 
 
CW

[rdlange]

I scope everything, because I have to.  4x I use on alot because it's good enough under 200 yds.  Fixed power is easy to get used to, cheaper and less prone to problems, though good scopes mostly don't have problems.  I buy used and as recommended get the best glass you can afford... then spend a little more.

[Mauserfan]

This has nothing to do with the subject matter but I had a nice shock today.  I needed new primers so I picked up a thousand CCI Large Rifle....$40!  Wow!  I guess it has been a few years since I bought any.  I just remember that being the "cheap" part of reloading.  Now a scope price doesn't seem all that bad.  Again thanks for all the input.  This seems like a really nice forum. 

[OSOK]

Mauserfan, I say scope it. I have a BC and will be scoping it during the off season. Love the rifle, but the sights just don't cut it anymore. Having the magnification of a scope available is a big plus when you have to count points like we do here in Arkansas. I like a fixed 4x, but have a 2.5x BSA on my .357 max.

[Sourdough]

Most of my rifles are scoped, but two of my 45-70s, one 30-06, and a .35 Whelen wear peep sites.  These I use for close range, under 150 yards.  My eyes gave out for regular open sites over 20 years ago.

I have a few simmons scopes, they were on guns that I bought at gun shows.  None of the ones I have provide the clarity I want.  I generally use Bushnell Elites.  I have had no problems with them.  I have had three Bushnell banners.  All three worked for a while, but eventually had problems.  Either the crosshairs broke or the thing fogged while new.  Bushnell replaced them with an upgrade, no charge.  I still have them, so far so good.

[johnnyb]

My BC has a Burris Fullfield II 3x9x40 w/ Ballistic plex. I have it dialed in to 350 yards, good scope and good price.
I shoot this scope on all of my center fire long guns.

[ratherbefishin]

I put an old 2.75X scopechief on my topper 30/30-not that the RIFLE needed it but because I NEEDED it.Can't shoot with open sights anymore.but if you LIKE open sights on a rifle [and they carry nicer without a scope]you can always do what I do-weld a washer on the iron sights-voila'-you now have a ''ghost ring'' peep sight and that might work out for you.

[jlwilliams]

  Seems like since you have a BC and a standard Handi, then leaving the BC iron and scoping the other would give you the best of all.  Two rifles set up differently, feeding both the same round.  Nothing wrong with that.
 
  For close range work I have a 44 mag Ruger lever gun that came to me (used) with a 2.5x fixed power Bushnell Banner.  I thought about losing the glass untill I shot it.  It was just working too well together as a complete package so I left it alone.  Only thing I've changed on that gun was putting a sling on.  Anyway, for close range it's hard to beat a low magnification optic and it doesn't have to be expensive.  If I were setting your gun up I'd look at Nikon and see what they offer this year.  I'm not up to date on what's out there but I recall last time I looked Nikon had some good stuff. 

[45/70fan]

Scope it and don't look back! Mine has worn a Nikon ProStaff 2x7x32 since new (around 96 if memory serves). The 45/70 is one of, if not the most accurate Handi caliber. You will be impressed what she can do scoped!!