300 blackout rimmed.

[ibgp3]

There was a discussion about 307 and 308 barrels, cut a rim in a 308 barrel and use either brass.


There was another discussion about 32-20 vs 300 blackout.


I've been necking .357Max brass down for a wildcat, and I noticed that .357Mag is the right size for making a .300 blackout rimmed.
All it would take is a .357 rim in a blackout barrel.


Anyone got .357 Mag brass around?

[ibgp3]

From another site where they are discussing the 300 blackout Handi-rifle:
It should be out around March 2012. MSRP is probably about $335. It costs more than other HandiRifles because it has custom tall sights, an AAC logo lasered on it, a thread protector, a threaded barrel, and a barrel blank not made at H&R due to the special twist rate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8BylISWMak


I still want mine rimmed.

[dave29]

If street price comes in under $300, I may buy one just for re-chamber possibilities.

[ibgp3]

It doesn't sound like the barrels will be available in the accessory program.


It also sounds like limited short time production.
If you get the chance, buy one, or forget it.

[mcwoodduck]

I can see the advantages of the 300 Black out  / 300 Whisper.
But what gets me is why not just down load 308, 307, 30-40 Krag, or 30-30 to the velocities that 300 Black out sends the bullets?
A 30-30 barrel would seem to be a better choice, able to shoot heavier bullets slower or the same speed and have the ability to have hunting loads.

[ibgp3]

According to the other site, the Handi version will come with a threaded barrel.
                     [Threaded for a silencer (suppressor).]
The smaller case takes less powder to get to the maximum subsonic load (~1050fps)
        less powder means less to suppress and less recoil.
This guy says that the whisper produces half as much recoil in his T/C as his 30-30.
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=300%20Whisper&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=


If you don't put a silencer on your Handi, and you don't try to shoot it out of a 14" barrel, it will produce less than a 30-30 or better cartridge.


I still want one, and I want mine rimmed.

[cwlongshot]

There was a discussion about 307 and 308 barrels, cut a rim in a 308 barrel and use either brass.


There was another discussion about 32-20 vs 300 blackout.


I've been necking .357Max brass down for a wildcat, and I noticed that .357Mag is the right size for making a .300 blackout rimmed.
All it would take is a .357 rim in a blackout barrel.


Anyone got .357 Mag brass around?

I think you mean to ask for MAXIMUM brass... 
 
As for the 307/308 its a 30-30 extractor and button modifications to allow it to spring up into the semi rimmed 308 brass...
 
The 300's claim to fame, is it runs thru a AR based firearm. (It fits in the magazine)
But its a rimless case, making the 32-20 more handi friendly.
The pressures of the 300 are 55 psi, while the 32 is closer to 10 psi (Orig loadings) But can be loaded to 40 K + in the handi.
The 300 is a .308 bullet while the 32 is a .312. But for standard loadings its limited to 125G bullets. Giving the 32 a better selection of bullets. (Kinda opposite what you would expect!) Sure you could load the 300 with up to 220G for subsonic loadings while the 32-20 would be limited to 175G. (If subsonic loads are your thing)
The 300 will be in a more durable and reloading friendly case.
 
The 32-20 has been here for almost 130 Years and if reloaded will do anything the 300 is capable of.
 
Now adding a rim to the 300.... I really don't see an advantage. As the biggest one would be bullets selection and as I said, the 32 has more choices! Besides with a 357 case you would have a wild cat and likely need expensive custom dies. The biggest down fall of the 32WCF is its fragile case. But I have been loading it for many years and being careful you will do just fine and not loose cases. I see the complaint as more a person problem than a case problem.
  
Everything considered, I think I'll keep my 32 WCF...
 
CW

[quickdtoo]

I think the previous polls on the 300AAC Blackout compared to other polls speaks to its popularity, or lack of.

Tim

300 AAC BO

338 MX

17 Fireball

35 Whelen

[quickdtoo]

As for the 307/308 its a 30-30 extractor and button modifications to allow it to spring up into the semi rimmed 308 brass...

Only on an ejector barrel, there's no lift button mod required for an extractor barrel when converting from rimmed to rimless chamberings, just swap the extractors out. 

Tim

[ibgp3]

I think you mean to ask for MAXIMUM brass...   
CW

Actually, what I should have said is
"am I the only guy here with a 5Gal bucket under the bench full of .357Mag brass?"

...and " .357Mag is  the right size for making a .300 blackout rimmed. "

...and since i'm already set up to neck .375 down to 6.5mm I don't need the dies (dies that cost $26 and change.)

...and I agree with you about the 32-20, but I don't have one.

...So I want a Whisper, and I want mine rimmed.

[cwlongshot]

 I have a couple boxes of them in my cabinet. (Seperated by manufacturer) ready to clean as needed and a couple pretzel barrels of them all clean and ready to load in the brass cabinet.   
 



 
CW

[ibgp3]

Looks like my stuff, only better organized.

[twoshooter]

OK CW, now I am jealous. I should have tried for some 357 instead of the 500 stuff we swapped. We may get a blackout, however I am in despair of getting a 32-20 which is what I really would like. If I would get a blackout I would shoot 85 gr Hornady .312's, the 71 gr FMJ made for 32 ACP, and 310 sized 100 gr cast. They shoot fine through the 32/20 contender barrel that is .308.

[ibgp3]

Wow!! I had no idea how close to a 32-20 a 300AAC rimmed will be.




Gotta be a good one. (For those of us who don't have a 32-20.)

[Dinny]

Very interesting....the wheels are in motion, albeit slow motion.

Level Three looks doable in a well-built Handi.  
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm


MidwayUsa has nickle-plated brass in stock



http://www.midwayusa.com/product/941218558/starline-brass-32-20-wcf




Thanks, Dinny

[ibgp3]

You came in late Dinny, (and I certainly understand why.)


I can't get the 32-20.


Hopefully I can get a .300 AAC barrel.
......it gets a .440 rim (.357/.38) and a .357 extractor.


......I reform some .357 brass in a .300AAC die.


my rimmed Whisper should get me over my 32-20 envy.

[sambo1022]

ibgp3,

When necking down the brass, does it become longer?  I noticed that there is a .078" difference in length between the two.

[ibgp3]

Good eye, Sambo!

I haven't done any .357 to .300AAC, there is usually some gain, (probably a lot less than .078".)


.....but I figure that losing less than a tenth of an inch of neck won't affect performance.


.....if it turns out that I am wrong I'll have to make the brass from Maxi's after all.

[twoshooter]

Ok, OK. OKAY! I see this could be as close to my 32/20 as I am going to get. BUT..... even though I prefer a rimmed cartridge, 357 brass is not a viable option, especially when I have 223 brass out the wasu. There will have to be a forming die, even if it is cutting one of my 223 dies down. The 223 would be much heavier brass, might have to either ream the throat a little or turn the necks. Of course, like they discussed about the 307/308 , one could cut a rim and use 357 brass also, perhaps. Shades of 256 Winchester Batman. Well, I will quit bashing the concept, if I cant beat 'em, might as well join 'em. It could be a good thing. Maybe, they would have too many 243 bores one day and decide to cut some 6mm /221 chambers, or some 257/221 chambers (my 25/20 substitute) Go ahead, put me down for one.

And a year or 2 from now, when you all come to LOVE the accuracy, low recoil etc etc, and it begins to fade like the 6.8 SPC, you will all wish you had A 32/20, which has survived 120+ years. Grumble grumble...... PS-PS, if they make this it should come in those cute little Talo sized barrels, they dont need 24" with that powder capacity, 16.5 -18.5 is plenty.

[Ol BW]

At first I was pretty excited about this whole 300 BLK business, if nothing more but it may get some more people interested in the Handi-Rifle. 
 
The more I look at it the more I realize that there is nothing the cartridge will to that my 7.62x39 can't, except work well in a AR magazine.  I understand that is the main reason it was designed along with getting around SSK's Whisper patent.  I read in a recent magazine article that basically they were the same and that some rifles are being made so they will fire either round.  I believe the same article said that SSK is also talking about making the Whisper more avaliable??  Don't quote me on that. 
 
(I do know that according to Guns and Ammo, Alexander Arms is giving up the 6.5 Grendel to make it more available.  Why do you think they are doing that?  Looks like the market is heating up!  Seems like this AR thing is catching on, huh?)
 
Based on these facts I cannot see laying down money like that for something I basically already have.  That is just my situation, I cannot speak for anyone else. 
 
As far as making a new cartridge that is rimmed; go ahead, why not?  If your gonna give me one I will sure shoot it!!      
 
I think we should hang on to these old cartridges also!  You never know what new technology or new use will come around that might make them exactly what you need!  Kinda like why my Dad still keeps my grandfather's old tractor, cause it still runs, it can still do a little work!!

[ibgp3]

Midway has .300 blackout die set for $31.50


....I expect to use an 8mm neck sizer for a step,
             but if I didn't already have one I would try it without.


The only part I can't do is cut the rim in the barrel, and I could do that if I still had a lathe.

[ibgp3]

...... the main reason it was designed [was for] getting around SSK's Whisper patent.  I read in a recent magazine article that basically they were the same and that some rifles are being made so they will fire either round.  I believe the same article said that SSK is also talking about making the Whisper more avaliable??  Don't quote me on that. 
 
I do know that according to Guns and Ammo, Alexander Arms is giving up the 6.5 Grendel to make it more available.  Why do you think they are doing that?

The 45 LC didn't show up in a rifle for a long time (75 yrs?) because of patent restrictions.
If the Whisper and the Grendel are being let out it's because they aren't being used.

[Deerhunter#1]

In a handi I agree that i dont see what this caliber is going to do that the 7.62x39 cant. If correct the talk is that it will be in an under 20 inch barrel also for even reduced speed. Shooting the 123 grain bullets its seems the 7.62x39 is better ballistically. maybee I am wrong so let me know. I can always be talked into another gun.

[jlwilliams]

300BLK is primarily an AR round and as I understand it AAC had the 300BLK Handis made to help promote the round, not to promote the Handi.  They made the guns so people could buy one and try their new round for less money then they would pay for an new AR barrel.
 
  I think it's a great new round and one of the best innovations to hit the AR15 world in a long time.  Is it setting the single sot world ablaze?  Well, no.  Not really.
 
   Back to the OP.   (i have no idea why this stupid laptop is now typing in itallics)  Reforming 357 to accpet .308 projos sounds like a great idea.  I'm sure it's been done so why not do it if it's what you want.  Wasn't the 30 Herrit a 357 based round?

[cwlongshot]

Both the Herretts, the 30 & 357 are 30-30 based. Shortened of coarse.

CW

[earl54]

P.O.Ackleys book has the 30/357,and Paco had an art. about the 30/357 with heavy cast bullets in a converted 92win or a 92win clone.Paco was very impressed with the effency of the round.I think that it will be my first rebore or stub job on a 22hornet barrel that i have.Want to use a fast twist(1in8,or 1in9)so i can use heavy cast bullets.Want deep grooves so i am looking at a rebore job.

[cwlongshot]

OK CW, now I am jealous. I should have tried for some 357 instead of the 500 stuff we swapped. We may get a blackout, however I am in despair of getting a 32-20 which is what I really would like. If I would get a blackout I would shoot 85 gr Hornady .312's, the 71 gr FMJ made for 32 ACP, and 310 sized 100 gr cast. They shoot fine through the 32/20 contender barrel that is .308.

I have "care package" ready to ship for you my friend!  If the line at the PO ain't too long I'll get it out today.

CW

[twoshooter]

Thanks CW, I appreciate that. And as to the above comments, if they still made the 7.62 X 39 handi, it might be a moot point, but they do not. A run of these would be good simply from the standpoint of being able to use 223's and 222's to be reformed into the brass, as well as 357mag, if a rim is cut into the barrel. Around here 7.62X39 brass is hard to come by, but 223 is practically give away material, like 9mm brass. I wanted the 32/20 family (still do) of 218 Bee,25/20, and 32/20, but that looks pretty remote. Now that I look closely at this thing, it might become a case of love the one you're with. Maybe this could start something new, a 256 Mag maybe, or a 256 Max. At this point anything new is a plus, even if only as a platform to work from. In for a penny, in for a pound.Bring it......

[jlwilliams]

Both the Herretts, the 30 & 357 are 30-30 based. Shortened of coarse.

CW

  Right you are.
 
 

[ibgp3]

The dies came in and I grabbed a handful of old dirty brass.
If I had a barrel, I'd go on.



                                           300AAC rimmed

...I want a .300AAC, and I want it rimmed.