Taylor's & Co. Leveraction Rifles

[David I.]

I'm after any first hand knowledge of Taylor's & Co leveraction rifles. I'm very interested in their model 424 in 45LC. I realize it is made by Chiappa in Italy. Right now I'm attempting to decide between Italian made or the nice USA made Henry. I love the Henry company and Anthony Imperato is quite a great guy and their guns are high quality along with excellent customer service. Problem is for me...it still comes down to "personal preferance in what I like as far as design". I will only buy NEW guns and right now I will only consider Italian or USA made guns with the exception of some of the Taurus's. I will NOT buy other brands for my own reasons, I have researched and researched and right now I need info on Chiappa's quality...especially Taylor's & Co. leverguns. I believe Chiappa makes Taylor's guns to Taylor's quality specs if I'm not mistaken. I will NOT buy Marlin or Winchester right now, maybe some day if and when they get their act back together. Right now their quality has gone downhill and right now they aren't even making the model I would want and not sure where some of their guns are actually being made...heard some horror stories .
I really would appreciate input from someone with some personal knowledge of Taylor's leverguns because Taylor's model 424 is really the style I want in an 1892 clone...but I need to know about their quality.
I would prefer to NOT get into a discussion about various other brands....I've spent enough time researching other brands. My mind is made up....either an Italian 1892 clone or an excellent Henry that I don't care as much for some of its' design features. I know I would be happy with the Henry's function and quality, but I'm afraid in time I will wish I had bought a "decent" quality gun of the style I like along with the features I like. Thanks for reading, David.
 

[jamesb]

I have 2 Taylor's & Co. firearms, a 1873 leveraction in 45 Colt and a frontier model break action revolver.  The fit and finish on my rifle is excellent.  It also functions flawlessly.  I have been up to their shop out in Winchester VA and they were friendly and good to deal with.  If you are looking for a 92, Taylor's IMO is the best of the importers.

[David I.]

Thank you so much jamesb for the info....that sounds great. Would you be able to tell me when your guns were manufactured? I heard some negative things about their (Chiappa) 1892 guns having some mechanical malfunctions and machining errors in 2009 and 2010, but I don't how much truth there was to it much less how many guns...just a few or many!?! If there was a temporary problem at Chiappa I would hope they would have remedied the issue by now. I did place some polite questions to Taylor's & Co today and I'm anxiously waiting for their reply. I really like the model 424....it has all the features and style I want. It isn't cheap so I need it to be quality at that price, quality all the way around including function. Thanks again, David.

[David I.]

One thing I just realized jamesb....Taylor's &Co 1873's are made by Uberti not Chiappa. Taylor's 1892's are made by Chiappa, Uberti does not make any 1892's. Oh well, thanks anyway for trying to help, David.

[Ranch13]

If you go take a look at CDNN investments, at about page 60 of their online catalog you'll find Winchester 92's at less money than the Taylors, and the quality of the Winchester will be so much better than the imports that it won't even be funny.

[David I.]

Update: Well after more research and way too much thinking....I ordered a Taylor's & Co #424 45LC made by Chiappa. I did not receive it yet and once I do I will post my first impressions. Sometime after that (not sure exactly how long) I will post on the function of the gun. I did plenty of research and I feel (and hope) that the Chiappa I ordered will suffice and be of high enough quality for me as long as it functions well. I am basically hoping it will approximately be worth what I payed, which was actually fairly low as far as the going rate for the gun but of course more than I wanted to spend. Thanks to all who helped, David.

[kevinsmith5]

Please do post a review. I'm thinking of looking for a pistol caliber lever gun or single shot.

[Ranch13]

Hope it works out for you, Chiappa's quality in the past has been hit or miss. The only reliably good quality Italian made guns have been from Uberti and Pedersoli.

[David I.]

Thanks Ranch13 for the comments. I personnaly have to be careful to try to determine opinions from fact. Sometimes opinions are fact and sometimes they are not. Many people may have good intentions and I always appreciate any attempts by people that are trying to help. I have heard there were some quality issues in the past with Chiappa, but I really am not sure how much actual truth there is to it or more importantly the quantity of occurance. I just don't have all the data...sometimes not easy or impossible to get!
Recently I  read some comments regarding two individuals that had quality problems with some Ubertis. I realize Uberti has a good track record and I actually would have preferred to but a Uberti but they do not make an 1892. Any and all manufacturers can sometimes let one or two slip through...it can happen I know, I've worked in the manufacturing world my whole life including owning a small manufacturing business. Anyway, after my resaearch I'm NOT willing to make a blanket statement that Chiappa has had quality issues any more than any other gun maker because I don't have the "quantity data" to back it up.
That being said, yes I too am hoping my gun will not have any major issues...time will tell. There is always a chance for a defect in any thing any of us buy, especially these days. I just don't have the proof or data to think that Chiappa has any more quality issues than anyone else....actually I have very many excellent reviews of Chiappa's guns versus negative ones. The couple reviews I noticed that were negative were in 2009/10, not of recent times so I am hoping they got things ironed out for the most part.
Again, I wish to thank you for your input and it is duly noted.
 

[Ranch13]

I'm not one that puts stuff out on hearsay, unless I know the person I heard it from in the first place. Mostly just going from experience.
 Anyway alot of the folks that want a good 92 between runs by Winchester go thru Steve's guns, and get one of the EMF's he takes into his shop and tunes to perfection.
I have been around a few of those Rossi's that were pretty good, but none of them except the highly tuned such as available from Steves' even hold a candle to a Winchester.

[David I.]

I hear yah Ranch13 about the Winchesters...I would have loved an actual Winchester but I can't afford one or even find one right now...especially with the longer barrel. I also do not have the time to wait. I don't know if you have noticed any of my posts in other subforums here but my health is a big issue right now. I have done much research and I feel strongly that a Chiappa Italian made gun will more than suffice in quality as long as it functions well. Sometimes I think Chiappa gets a bad rap because of their price, and maybe there is something to that. But they had what I wanted and I wanted it NOW!!! I really don't think it's going to be that bad...in fact I'm expecting it to actually be quite nice. There are plenty of Chiappa Puma's out there and many many people are very happy with them. The one I ordered just happens to be imported by Taylor's & Co. I will NOT buy a Rossi for my own reasons, I know there are also plenty of people that are happy with them but I know I would not be. I have looked at them and I just don't like them...plus I don't want to have someone else fix it and slick it up. I just don't care to do that, as they say "to each their own".
I'm looking forward to the arrival of my gun made by Chiappa....and no one is going to rain on my parade!!!!!!! As I said before, hopefully it will be pretty nice and function quite well for me, even if I did pay a little too much for it. It won't be "too much" if I like it and it functions well. I really don't NEED the worlds absolute top notch best 1892 that was ever made. I can't afford it plus I don't have time....life is too short, maybe shorter than some of us know.
At any rate, I do appreciate input, comments and opinions....but I may not always agree. Facts backed up by data with "quantity of occurances"of good and bad things about a product means more to me.
 

[Ranch13]

 There would of been no wait to get a Winchester, CDNN has a good selection, as does Gallery of Guns, and they're cheaper than the Taylors.
Hoping the Chiappa is everything you wanted it to be.

[David I.]

Thanks Ranch13 for the info, but:
1) I tryed CDNN the other day and the problem is I only have "dial up" for my PC and it would have taken half a day to download their catalog, which would have been necessary to get the info and see what they have. I could NOT and would NOT do that, plus I don't have that kind of patience anymore. Too bad they don't have easier access to info regarding what they have in stock. Oh well, too late for me anyway.
2) I just looked at Gallery of Guns "Gun Genie" and found the Winchesters. They do list the model I would want but unfortunately it would have been a lot more than I payed for my Taylor. The least expensive Winchester quoted was $1105.00 + shipping for the 24" barrel gun. This is NOT a terrible price for a Winchester, but more than I can spend right now. I payed $848.00 with shipping included for the Taylor, which is not a bad price either.
As I have said, I am a man in somewhat of a rush but I really think the Chiappa should do just fine for what I can afford to pay, at least I certainly hope so. Actually my budget was more in line with a Rossi (which I don't like) without  "Steve's" upgrades and I have already gone way over that for the Chiappa. The Chiappa is absolutely the best gun I can afford right now in the model I want without waiting forever or saving up more money. Lets wait and see what the gun looks and shoots like and I will let you know. I would ask you to wish me luck, but you have already done that!

[Ranch13]

That was a good deal getting the 300$ off of what Taylors usually charges.
It'll most likely work out just fine.

[Ranch13]

Forgot to mention if you decide to sometime in the future look at CDNN, don't download the catalog, just do the view tab, then when the front page of the catalog opens up, go down to the bottom and enter 60 on the page number. That will put you real close to the good guns. That's a trick I learned when we had dial up that was so crappy I couldn't even open the pages on this web due to the adds and such.

[David I.]

Thanks again Ranch13, that's really some very useful info regarding CDNN, I will remember that. And thanks for the words or encouragement also.

[Bart Solo]

BTW, I know this thread has morphed into a discussion of CDNN but I use Taylors all the time.
 
They have terrific customer service and can supply tuned rifles for competitive cowboy shooters.
 
They don't build anything.  They are importers, mostly from the Italians.  I didn't know they were selling Chiappa 92s.  If I was going to buy another 92, I would buy Rossi.  The Rossi rifles are from Brazil.  They are really strong rifles of pretty good quality.

[David I.]

This is an update regarding the Chiappa/Taylor's 1892 I ordered. I actually received the gun some time ago and have been busy with other things and as usual some health issues.
The gun is cosmetically a beautiful example of an 1892 with excellent fit and finish of wood and external parts. The wood is beautiful European walnut with really nice color case hardened receiver, etc. and nicely polished blue oct. barrel. The action is very smooth right out of the box....but I have not shot the gun yet. All I have is some 200gr semi-wad cutters for my Ruger that will NOT feed, they also have kind of a rough nasty top edge to the brass where they were crimped which isn't helping, (my fault for not trimming cases). I need to make some dummy rounds with RNFP bullets (don't have yet) or just buy one box of RNFP ammo to try the feeding. I have been told by Taylor's to stick with RNFP bullets which actually is not new info to me nor is it unusual for 1892's to like or need RNFP bullets as a rule from what I have read.
I started a thread in this forum regarding ideal 45LC specs for use in 1892's.
When I get some ammo and time I will let you know how they feed (hopefully well) and then how the gun shoots.

[David I.]

Well, it took me long enough, but I finally had some time to load some ammo and shoot the gun. The gun shoots absolutely great...tons of fun and really nice handling. Here is a list of things worth mentioning in my opinion:
1) I had to round off and clean up some sharp corners on the guide rails...they were making some tiny dents in my cases I did not like.
2) I also had to add a small piece approx. .030" thick to the small  bottom area (ramp stop) of the right guide where the ramp contacts. This was done in order to stop pressure or slight squeezing of the cases when the lever is all the way forwards ( helped cause dents also) and also to improve chambering ( it was a hair high ). Now feeding/chambering is great with no problems.
3) I'm loading and using 250gr RNFP cast bullets, new Starline brass, AA#5 powder, Rem. large pistol primers. I even recently bought a new LEE Classic Cast press to replace my ancient CH small alloy "C" press. I needed a bigger better press for my other 45-70 loads anyway.
4) I'm NOT happy with the factory Chiappa supplied sights on the gun. I recently ordered some Marble Arms sights and they are on the way.
5) All and all, I am very happy with the gun now. I wasn't too pleased about the work I had to do to the guide rails and stop for ramp. I should NOT have encountered such things on an expensive gun. I also realize not everyone can or is willing to do such things. Otherwise, I am very happy with the quality and workmanship of the gun. I will also be ordering some "spare" springs for the gun just to have on hand.
I will let you know how I like the new Marble sights once I get them on the gun and try them out.
If anyone would like more specifics regarding how I modified the guides and stop ramp or exactly why I do not like the existing Chiappa supplied sights......just let me know.
Thanks, David.
 
 

[RustyHunt]

I have a new Winchester 92 in 38-40, its quality is very good, and it shoots well. The only issue I have is it has a creepy and heavy trigger. A gunsmith told me he couldn't do much because of the rebounding hammer on the new ones. I also have a Rossi, although it quality isn't as good the trigger is excellent ( with the help of a gunsmith).
RustyHunt

[David I.]

The trigger on my Chiappa is a crisp 4.5 lbs with no creep. I would prefer between 3 and 4 lbs, but 4.5 will be fine for a lever action gun.

[pricedo]

Get a Rossi........just as good & probably a lot cheaper.

NUTHIN MUCH is made in the USA anymore .......either the whole gun is made overseas or the parts are.

Some brands might say their products are made in the USA but when you go component by component in 95% of the cases it's not true .

[pricedo]

I have a new Winchester 92 in 38-40, its quality is very good, and it shoots well. The only issue I have is it has a creepy and heavy trigger. A gunsmith told me he couldn't do much because of the rebounding hammer on the new ones. I also have a Rossi, although it quality isn't as good the trigger is excellent ( with the help of a gunsmith).
RustyHunt

The new Winchesters are built by Miroku of Japan.
I found the fit & finish of the new Rossi 92s to be as good or better than any Miroku built guns I own (a BLR & a Miroku 1894)........the shiny "epoxied look" is not a good finish in my opinion.
The triggers in my Rossi 92s are good for a levergun breaking at about 4 pounds (no modifications)........a lot better I might say than the  INEXCUSABLE 7 pound creepy, gritty trigger in my Miroku built "Browning" BLR.
So let's face it, Miroku of Japan is not the "be all & end all" of gun building & some of their stuff could be improved.
In my opinion get the Rossi guns..........they are cheaper (1/2 the price), just as good (often better) and aren't encumbered by the lawyers junk (rebounding hammers & tang safeties) prevalent in the Miroku built guns.

[Ranch13]

Most of the Rossi's I've seen have such a close wood to metal fit you could dang near throw a cat thru the gaps
They also have that stupid safety key switch on the bolt.
They are excellent examples of getting what you pay for.....

[pricedo]

Most of the Rossi's I've seen have such a close wood to metal fit you could dang near throw a cat thru the gaps
They also have that stupid safety key switch on the bolt.
They are excellent examples of getting what you pay for.....

You've either been looking at some badly abused Rossis or you aint feeding your cats.
Agreed, the stupid safety switch though not as conspicuous an eyesore as a tang safety on a Miroku made "new" Winchester is indeed redundant and useless.
Take another look at the Rossis made today.
The Rossi 92 leverguns I own & the ones I've seen on the racks are a marked improvement from the older Rossis made before the CNC retooling of the Rossi factory in 2000.

[Ranch13]

Saw a brand new one in rifle configuration at a gunshow just this past weekend. The guy had 800$ on it, from the fit and finish and running the action felt something like pulling a cinderblock thru the gravel with a log chain. I wouldn't give you 800$ for a semiload of them.

[pricedo]

Saw a brand new one in rifle configuration at a gunshow just this past weekend. The guy had 800$ on it, from the fit and finish and running the action felt something like pulling a cinderblock thru the gravel with a log chain. I wouldn't give you 800$ for a semiload of them.

I wouldn't give you $800 for one either.
I paid $395 for mine 3 years ago at LSI.
W/M fit, wood finish & bluing are great and the action is smooth as butter.....didn't start that way but after a good cleaning, lubricating and working the action 50 times or so the gun really smoothed out and now it runs really nice.
The sights left a little bit to be desired and were replaced with a brass Skinner peep sight set.
The gun (.44 Mag) gives me 1.5" - 2" x 3 shot groupings @ 50 yds with the forearm resting on a sand bag and that's not bad for a 16" trapper shooting the cheapo Winchester USA "white box" 240 grain JSPs.
It seems that the deer are dying to make my day whenever I take it hunting.
Great rifle for the money.
Lots of shooters must think so too cause they're being grabbed off the racks as fast as the shops can bring them in.

[David I.]

I would like to get this thread I started back to what it was initially intended for.....experience, comments and info regarding Taylor leverguns, especially the Chiappa 1892 I ended up purchasing. Not a debate about other brand guns and which might be better.
As I previously stated, I would like to now comment on my Chiappa gun after putting the Marble Arms sights on and shooting it.
1) The Marble Arms sights are much, much better. I wanted to keep with semi-buckhorn style rear (by Marble) and I changed to a round post style front (by Marble). This combination seems to work much better for my aging eyes, there is much less "space" in the rear sight and I can be much more accurate.
2) The gun shoots quite well and is quite accurate, more accurate than I am capable of with my aging eyes and iron sights. I can shoot a ragged hole at 25-30yds, but that begins to open up slightly at 50 yds...but still quite acceptable to me. I will have no problem hitting a deer in the boiler room at 50-75yds and my max will be about 100yds. Even if I could shoot accurately past 100yds with these sights, my 45LC loads that are slightly +P are really only good on deer to approx. 125yds or so anyway. I will be using this gun mostly for fun and target shooting, but I will take it deer hunting sometimes.
3) All and all I am very happy with the gun...but only after my mods. As I stated earlier, if anyone wants to know specifics about my mods just send me a PM. I'm also very happy with my new Lee classic cast SS press and Lee carbide dies that replaced my old small "C" aluminum CH press and non carbide dies. I'm also very happy with the 45LC hand loads I'm using. I find Accurate #5 to be a very clean burning powder compared to the Unique powder I used in the past.
Thanks to all that helped me with my questions, and thanks for reading this.