Author Topic: 45/70 and IMR 4198 (Read 2180 times)

Plenty Coups · « **on:** October 18, 2011, 03:52:09 PM »

OK i am at 50gr of IMR 4198 behind the Speer 350 for my BC 45/70 gumment. Seems ok but with open sights can't really fine tune it at 100 yds. Pressures look to be absolutely with in normal VIA primers and easy of extraction. I suspect this will be the load I use for this season.

Shooting from the bench will "lift your soul" among other things. However off hand or kneeling, recoil ain't bad at all.

I am thinking this load should push the Speer out the tube around 2100fps. Any one else use this load in their BC's or handi's?

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:00:38 PM »

I use 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a 405 grain cast bullet. It shoots sub-1/2 MOA.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:19:23 PM »

Shooting that heavy a load would definately give me some soul lifting, and not to mention probably an out of body experience and some loose teeth, what few I have.

I'd have to go along with Swampman since he likes my favorite load in the 45-70 sledge hammer.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:26:14 PM »

plenty,

A 350 grain jacketed (hornady, not speer) with 50 grains of I4198 is a max. lever gun load as published on Hodgdon's website. They list 2100+fps from their test gun, which I believe would be shorter than your 32" BC so you can probably add 100 or so FPS to their published velocity. You shootin' that with a bone stock BC and no recoil padding? If so please post a pic of your shoulder after shooting a dozen rounds wearing only a "t" shirt.

BB

thejanitor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2011, 04:39:52 PM »

I know Petemi's 405 Remi powered by IMR 4198 Isn't too uplifting for the deers souls! It hits hard and pretty much packages the meat on the way down. VERY accurate.
thejanitor

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:18:22 PM »

I have burned at last a couple pounds of 4198 and that load in my Marlins!! Its a VERY good one in my guns. I have shot it in the Handi too, but find it unnecessary for the deer/blk bear I shoot. I still keep in in the Marlin as I feel it handles the recoil better than the lighter H&R. I shot end to end, nearly threw a 200+ pound bear with that load!!

I load Speers 400Gr to about 1600 fps as a top load in the H&R and have had excellent luck hunting with it.

CW

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2011, 05:35:56 PM »

Yep, no need for overkill!

And by "overkill" I mean, no need to kill on both ends of the barrel!

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2011, 01:37:08 PM »

I've been shooting 46 gr. of it and can tell you it puts my dauber in the dirt.Gonna have to try the 30 gr and resite the gun.Recoil and bruising aren't my best friends any more.Too much blood thinner now.Heck my 22 almost make a bruise.Great powder for the 45-70.Try some trail boss for a reduced power load.A full case minus the bullet length for a pussy cat load,but still very accurate.18 grs. if I remember right.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2011, 01:47:52 PM »

Quote from: Slowhanddd on October 19, 2011, 01:37:08 PM

Too much blood thinner now.

SH,

I have the same issue with coumadin and a very high PT/INR. Instead of downsizing my range loads I bought a PAST recoil absorber to wear and a slip on 1" limbsaver (if I am shooting full house 45-120 loads). I love the recoil, but getting sent to the ER because of an internal bleed kinda puts a damper on my shooting so I wear the "sissy pads".

BB

vincewarde · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2011, 01:59:42 PM »

Quote from: Plenty Coups on October 18, 2011, 03:52:09 PM

OK i am at 50gr of IMR 4198 behind the Speer 350 for my BC 45/70 gumment. Seems ok but with open sights can't really fine tune it at 100 yds. Pressures look to be absolutely with in normal VIA primers and easy of extraction. I suspect this will be the load I use for this season.

Shooting from the bench will "lift your soul" among other things. However off hand or kneeling, recoil ain't bad at all.

I am thinking this load should push the Speer out the tube around 2100fps. Any one else use this load in their BC's or handi's?

More powerful loads are often less accurate than lighter loads. Unless you are hunting something very big, I would back the load down and go for greater accuracy.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2011, 02:03:37 PM »

Most people who own the 45-70 are like those who drive cars that have speedometers that say 150 miles per hour.

Doesn't mean you'll ever drive that fast, but if you wanted to, you could!

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2011, 12:57:24 AM »

I also use some Unique. Lot's of shooting for a little money.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2011, 01:59:16 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 20, 2011, 12:57:24 AM

I also use some Unique. Lot's of shooting for a little money.

I was just given 2 pounds of Unique, going to try it in my 45-70 with the Lee 405 HB bullets.

BB

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2011, 04:00:37 AM »

I've been using 12.5 grains. It should work great.

BBF · « **Reply #14 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:17:42 AM »

27.0 gr of 2400 behind a 405 Rem will give you enough push not to think you are shooting a 22 and the bullet leaves the barrel faster then the factory load with a clean looking bore to boot.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:21:02 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on October 20, 2011, 08:17:42 AM

27.0 gr of 2400 behind a 405 Rem will give you enough push not to think you are shooting a 22 and the bullets leaves the barrel faster then the factory load with a clean looking bore to boot.

I use 2400 a lot too, especially in straight walled cases. I use 25 to 26 grains under a 500 grain cast bullet. I just loaded some IMR-4198 loads for the 500's and will try them out this weekend. I can't recall the charge but they're supposed to run just short of 1500 fps from a BC 32 inch barrel.

To the original poster, there are some loads listed in the FAQ by GrandpaMike. He found and posted his top five, six or so loads and all are using IMR-4198. You might look at the FAQ under this thread for his loads. I have found his picks match very well with my BC.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2011, 06:08:10 PM »

I just shot a variety of loads with some buddies at the range. One of the loads was a 300-gr. Hornady with 55 grs. of IMR 4198. With that bullet and powder the Hodgdon website lists the starter load at 53.7 (2293 fps from 24" barrel) and max. load at 57.2 (2407 fps). These are 1895 Marlin "Lever Action" load levels. Unfortunately I enjoyed shooting the Handi-Rifle so much -- OK maybe I was just too cheap to pay the range office for extra targets and too lazy to walk downrange to change them between loads -- I mixed the various handloads all together on a single 100-yd. target. So accuracy for each load was hard to determine. What I do recall is the recoil for that load. It stood out from the rest. Unless your deer are elk size, I don't see the need to put up with that level of "opposite reaction."

On the other hand, if your gun shoots one-holers with the load and you're built like a Green Bay linebacker, go for it.

Spanky · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2011, 08:39:24 PM »

Trapdoor loads will kill the hell out of anything that walks. Hot roddin' it just hurts your shoulder.

Spanky

XD40SC · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:22:02 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on October 20, 2011, 08:39:24 PM

Trapdoor loads will kill the hell out of anything that walks. Hot roddin' it just hurts your shoulder.

Spanky

correc-tamundo. My BC 45/70 shoots a 405gr Remington at around 1300fps. It shot through a 4inch diameter sapling and still killed the hog. That's enough penetration for me. And it's easy on the shoulder.

Default_Required · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2011, 02:38:14 AM »

Have not used the IMR 4198 , did use H4198 to launch a 350gr Hornady at 2300+/- out of my brothers H&R and yeaaahh talk about rattling some teeth, Oh Mah God ! That thing was nothing short of a Beast. Of course what else could I have expected from something dumping 4000+ ft. lbs. of energy while wearing the factory plastic furniture.
Little Brother is a bit of a recoil junkie , I know guys , He'll learn hahaha.

DR

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2011, 05:37:19 AM »

Im thinkin' that load gives reality to the order,"advance to the rear"..............
A bit softer load will probably group better and still do the job; it is just easier to shoot good groups when the gun isnt abusing you.

petemi · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2011, 06:32:27 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on October 20, 2011, 08:39:24 PM

Trapdoor loads will kill the hell out of anything that walks. Hot roddin' it just hurts your shoulder.
Spanky

Spanky, my hunting load with the 405s is dead nuts accurate at about 1950 fps. I ain't hot roddin' it cause I'm a masochist. It's cruisin' because I might have to knock one over a bit past the outhouse.

Pete

Buckwheat Jack · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2011, 06:32:24 PM »

I love shooting 450 cast bullets over 24 grains of IMR 4198. I don't chrono and I don't shoot pinpoint targets, but I can ring the gong at 200 tds with my open sights without busting my shoulder. Have tried 28 grains, but couldn't tell much difference.

ham7777 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 23, 2011, 03:42:21 AM »

Over 40 years ago I bought my first 45-70 in a Navy Arms Rolling Block

which I still have. My dad said to use 2400 and 300gr.bullet and have used nothing else since. It shot 1" groups or better off the bench with a tang sight. Who could ask for more.
I now have close to 40 or so 45-70's and still looking for more

.
Later Tom Ham7777

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:28:44 AM »

Just got back from the range and I wanted to try out some of the IMR 4198 powder I bought and I had loaded it under 400 grain Speer jacketed soft point bullets.

I had loaded up three other loads but the most accurate group and mildest load recoil wise was 30.5 grains.

It shot to 1 1/2" group @ 100 yards, with just shooting off hand the way I normally would shoot if I were hunting.

The range I go to has some sleds, but my short handi won't fit the sled and I don't like them anyway so I just rest my rifle on my hand with my hand resting on the sled, and my elbow on the table.

I'm not a bench shooter so I like to shoot my guns like I would in the field, and if I can get 1 1/2" with 5 shots shooting like I do, just think what an honest to goodness marksman could do shooting off a bench.

I like that load, and I'm looking forward to opening day!

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2011, 08:52:42 AM »

The first 3 shots out of my .45-70 #3 at 100 yards. 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a Georgia Arms 405 hardcast bullet. Starline Brass and CCI LR primers. OAL is 2.550.

BBF · « **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2011, 09:13:44 AM »

Quote from: ham7777 on October 23, 2011, 03:42:21 AM

...................
......................................
I now have close to 40 or so 45-70's and still looking for more .
Later Tom Ham7777

You wouldn't have a "walk in safe" by any chance?

tacklebury · « **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2011, 12:04:17 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 24, 2011, 08:52:42 AM

The first 3 shots out of my .45-70 #3 at 100 yards. 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a Georgia Arms 405 hardcast bullet. Starline Brass and CCI LR primers. OAL is 2.550.

Nice Swampy. Love to have a #3 or #1 in .45-70 some day.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2011, 03:45:00 PM »

Nice shooting!

You almost hit that nickel!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2011, 04:06:16 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on October 24, 2011, 08:52:42 AM

The first 3 shots out of my .45-70 #3 at 100 yards. 30 grains of IMR-4198 under a Georgia Arms 405 hardcast bullet. Starline Brass and CCI LR primers. OAL is 2.550.

I agree, Nice shooting Swamp... That ain't a Leupold scope on that Ruger is it?