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Offline AtlLaw

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500 S&W woes
« on: October 17, 2011, 12:25:58 PM »
Rifle season opens next weekend and I finally got down to the farm to put up my new feeder and ladder stand.   ;D  Those two jobs went okay, then my luck ran out.   :(
 
I have had no time to go to the range this year so I brought my 500 with a bunch of 440 gr FNGC and 400 gr jacketed bullets I had loaded.  To make a long story short I couldn't get the scope dialed in.   >:(  Ran out of elevation and windage.  Seemed like I was twisting the adjustment to no avail.
 
I have never had anything like this happen before, but since the scope was untested by me and bought used, I think I know where the problem lay.  Fortunately it is a Leupold and I'll send it to them with assurance it will be fixed!
 
OH!  My two hunting buddies were with me.  The first time I fired the 500 I said to myself "self, that ain't bad..."  So I got each of the others to try it.  The both vowed they would never fire it again!   ;D
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Offline John R.

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 12:43:48 PM »
I had to put Burris Zee rings with the inserts in them to get my scope to dial in. They come with different size inserts front and back. It zeroed right in after I did that. I put mercury recoil reducers and a good pad on my 500, it helped a lot. Even with that done my done my buddy won't shoot it anymore. ;D
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 12:54:21 PM »
Atlaw:  My buddy got us matching Taurus Raging Bulls, in .454 Casull.  I hated shooting that thing.  Take a broom stick, hit a utility pole as hard as you can using one hand.  Now the stinging you feel is what my hand felt like after shooting the Raging Bull. 

Got a S&W 460.  much lighter gun, easier to hold on target.  Yes it has a brake, just like your .500.  After the Raging Bull, the S&W is so sweet to shoot.  Full power loads and it is so easy to control.  But the muzzleblast is more than many people can stand.  That's what probably got your friends.  Yes there is recoil there, but it is manageable.  Togeather it put them out of their comfort zone.
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 12:55:17 PM »
Hello Richard!!
 
I agree, double check the mounts and see if you may have inadvertently used two different rings or one is back wards or maybe different heights...
The early Leupold's had limited adjustments...
 
CW
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 12:59:21 PM »
Oh yea, forgot to add.  I tto feel you need to check the mounts, both base and rings.
If they are good, then send the scope back to Lupold.
 
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Offline Ten Ring

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 02:05:46 PM »
Richard you did better than me. When I tried to sight in my 500 with Hornady's the first time from a leadsled I left the bench wirh one hand carrying the scope and the other the rifle.
Jim
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 02:23:46 PM »
Sorry to hear of the problems Richard, it's always something like this that happens when you're crunched for time! I must be either real good or lucky tho, my 500S&W Handi has had a $100 Nikon Prostaff Shotgun scope mounted in Leupold PRW rings since I got it, never a problem with sighting in at 100yds with 350gr and 385gr jacketed as well as 440gr and 700gr cast bullets, all full pressure loads, no plinkers, although the recoil lugs on the rings are bent (not yet broken like CW's  :-\) after about 200 rounds.

Tim
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Offline petemi

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 02:33:09 PM »
My Handi .500 is OK, but it's not my favorite rifle.  I really don't think what you get out of it is worth the effort, pain and expense.  I was talking about .500 and .45-70 revolvers with a friend who's an expert hand gun shot.  He said he's shot both of them.......ONCE..  It really wouldn't surprise me if down the road H&R discontinued it.  I think it's kind of a fad macho thing.  Gotta have it 'cause it's there.  I haven't tried shooting distance with it, but I was told this weekend that after 200 yards it drops like a rock.  I don't know, haven't done it.  But, I guess it does what it was built for......I haven't seen a T Rex around the neighborhood since I can't remember when.

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Offline Spanky

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 03:15:01 PM »
I had a 500 and it shot good with cast bullets over trailboss. I loaded up some stiff loads with jacketed bullets too but the recoil off the bench was a little stiff for my liking. It wouldn't really bother me to see the 500 discontinued... especially if they'd bring back the 45LC in it's place.
 
 
 
Spanky
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Offline Default_Required

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 03:38:25 PM »
Bite your tongue Spanky ! Talk of discontinuing is blasphemy lol
 
Sorry to hear about the trouble with the big bore Atlaw
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Offline bikerbeans

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 03:52:10 PM »
Richard,
 
You still got time to get your 444M ready for opening day.  The 444M ain't as macho as the 500 S&W but I doubt a deer will be able to tell much difference. ;)
 
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2011, 05:11:31 AM »
The mistake is not in scopes and equipment as much as the urge to prove testosterone levels by showing up with the firearm. I just shot a  1.4" 3 shot group @ 75 yards with mine. I am using the 440 Lee cast also, with 21 gr of Blue Dot. I have no chronograph, but at that distance it penetrated a 3/4 sheet of plywood and 11 inches of damp, but not soaked, phone books. That is equal to several deer broad side I am sure. Dropping the 500 would be a shame, dont blame the product for each persons expectations. They almost made buffalo extinct with 50/90's and that level is not hard to reach at all. I love mine, it is the easiest gun to cast for and load that I own.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 05:36:11 AM »
I dont have one, but if I did I would be making 50-70 to 50-90 BP equiv. loads for it, that is what I think would really shine. As said, the buff herds suffered badly, and as I understand it, that 50-70 WAS the buff cartridge for most of that carnage (mil-surp, cheap in guns & ammo, etc.).
Richard, you could have taken the scope & rings right off and sighted down the rail, not unlike using a shotgun, to see if the loads actually were 'grouping' somewhere. With one aiming point and someone else to watch the hits (since the recoil probably precluded you seeing them, you could have quickly narrowed it down).
Ive done just this, and it surprised me how well I did once I had a point of reference on the rifle (as well as a bird smoothie 12ga.with Fosters at 50yd.).
Mostly I think of it as an open sight gun anyway, slim & trim; and 'different' from my other scoped rigs; but Ive heard that even the open sights dont want to stay on!

Tim, I fear that if the lugs are already bent they are going to break, and thats likely at a most inconvenient time (Murphy rules).
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Offline STUMPJMPR

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2011, 06:30:38 AM »
I had problems with rifle scopes on mine.  Granted they were $100 dollar simmons/bushnell variety.  First issue the scope kept moving.   Added a third ring.  It stopped the scope from moving, then the insides of the scope started go.  After that I took the scope off and sighted it in 50 yards with Irons.  Problem solved. 
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 07:10:13 AM »
That's the great thing about Handi owners, since they should never have to worry about not getting a gun sighted in before the season.
 
If one fails you always have several backups, so it's just about being hard to make the decision on which one to use. ;)
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2011, 07:59:37 AM »
Richard, I misunderstood, thought you were talking about the 500 S&W pistol.  Got my head where it don't belong.  Open mouth, insert foot.

Heavy recoiling gun, scope won't dial in, look to see if scope is moving in rings.

Had that problem with my Weatherby.  Scope would start moving after four or five shots.  Just enough to have it close to being where you wanted it then off it went.  I finally used Lock-tite on the rings, has not moved since.  My partner got a Weatherby just like mine.  Tried to tell him what to do, he would not listen.  Three trips to the range, three trips home in frustration.  He finally put four rings on it, seems to be working.  Lucky he had a long enough scope to get the extra rings in place.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2011, 09:50:26 AM »
Richard, I had a buddy that got burned by this; hope you're not in the same boat:

Quote
Counterfeit Leupold Riflescope Warning Leupold® is issuing a customer alert to purchasers of products, particularly via Internet sales, in regards to bogus Leupold products that are apparently being illegally imported from the People’s Republic of China. These products bear many of the marks and trade dress of current Leupold & Stevens riflescopes making them very hard to distinguish externally from authentic Leupold products.
Counterfeited Leupold Mark 4® riflescopes and more recently, counterfeited Leupold Prismatic riflescopes have begun to arrive with increasing regularity at the firm’s Beaverton, Oregon, headquarters for service. These products are not manufactured by Leupold and are not covered by the Leupold Full Lifetime Guarantee.
Leupold employs serial number tracking for all its riflescopes, so if a customer finds a scope that is suspect, he or she can simply write down the serial number and call 1-800-LEUPOLD to confirm if it is indeed authentic.
 
 Counterfeited Leupold Mark 4® riflescopes: In general, most of the scopes appear to originate from Hong Kong (People’s Republic of China), and have “Leupold Mark 4” laser engraved on the bottom of the turret in a silver etch, while the black ring on the objective is etched in white and does not include the name “Leupold”. The scopes also do not bear the Leupold medallion, a mark all Leupold scopes will always possess. An authentic Mark 4 riflescope will always be engraved black on black and have the name “Leupold” engraved on the black ring.

http://www.leupold.com/corporate/resources/counterfeit-warning/
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2011, 04:04:50 PM »
Holy bull pucky Batman!! Counterfeit scope rings. Who woulda thought it? I used standard weaver rings and a Simmons pro-diamond 4X fixed power scope, and have had no problems, The scope has 60" of adjustment I think, and 1/2 " clicks. It is also pretty light, which makes it less susceptible to recoil problems. My friend has a featherweight 270 Winchester model 70 that kicks considerably more with his handloads than my 500s. Mine seem more like muzzleloader loads, a push instead of a slap. The gun does not come back nearly as fast. I can see if you are trying to get 2000 fps or more out of a 350 gr jacketed bullet that it would get much more problematic. I believe that I am getting pretty much 45/70 factory level loads and probably a bit more. As a woods load for deer, black bear and hogs that is way above just adequate. I can shoot it as far as 150 yards max I would say, before I move to another weapon. It has been several years since I have shot at a deer at over 100 yards and so I really dont feel any handicap with it. It makes a great woods/ stalking rifle. Only one of those "Talo" 45/70 shorties would do better , at least in theory, but I dont think the case life would be as good. It is certainly better suited to the handi platform than say a 7mm08, or a 22-250 . Dropping it would be, should be, an " impeachable" offense.     
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Offline Darreld Walton

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2011, 05:56:40 PM »
I had mine to the range couple weekends ago.  For some inexplicable reason, I'd removed the old Weaver K 2.5 from the 500 barrel, and put it on a US Model 1903A4 for a "vintage sniper rifle match" that I didn't make it to.  In it's place, I'd put what I thought to be a proven scope, a Sears branded Weaver 3X, if I recall correctly) and ran out of adjustments on it. 
Went back into Cheyenne, and found an absolutely ancient 7/8" tube Leupold 2.5 fixed duplex reticle and it came with the ring adapters to mate it to 1" rings.  Liberally applied loctite to every screw I could get to, and even put a dab between tthe scope and the Weaver ring base.
It has now stood up to 50 rounds of 500 gr. Hornady's and some 400 gr. hard cast bullets, both with near capacity loads of 2400.  Everything so far is copacetic. 
BTW, this barrel came from the accessory program, mounted it to the frame of my .45-70 BC, and still has the straight grip stock with steel buttplate.  I managed to get about thirty rounds downrange before my eyes crossed, and handed it off to a Bud to try.  He managed two shots and hung 'er up......I'm healing nicely, thanks, and it didn't really do to much to me, too much to me, too much to me...........
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2011, 06:05:35 PM »
Yah, with my .45-70 I took it out and shot 80 rounds in 1 day doing ladders from 42 to 52 gr. RL 7 and also zero'd in a couple muzzle loaders and other rifles/pistols between cooling for groups.  I was black and blue from the top of my shoulder blades in back to the bottom of my arm pit.  Went and bought me a slip-on Recoil pad after that, but took a while to recover.  All it takes is getting that pointy steel into your shoulder meat to bruise something fierce.  hehe
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2011, 07:36:45 AM »
Hey fellows!  What a great response!
 
Quote from: John R. on October 17, 2011, 12:43:48 PM
I had to put Burris Zee rings with the inserts in them to get my scope to dial in.

 
Tim turned me on to those Zee's sometime back and I really like them!  Matter of fact they are about the only mount I buy now.
 
However the scope came with a set of steel rings.  I can't for the life of me remember the name of the manufacturer, starts with an M I think... Muller?  Anyway, they are the vertical clamp type with 2 screws at the top of the clamp.  Kind of like one of the well known custom ring maker's rings.  Can't remember his name either...  :-[
 
Quote from: cwlongshot on October 17, 2011, 12:55:17 PM
I agree, double check the mounts and see if you may have inadvertently used two different rings or one is back wards or maybe different heights...

 
I'm usually pretty careful and I checked for any play a couple of times while I was shooting, but I certainly will check them again!  Just to make sure!   ;)
 
Quote
The early Leupold's had limited adjustments...

 This is a Leupold FX-II Ultralight and has about 9 full turns of the dial; Plenty of adjustment.  It became obvious, even to me, that the crosshairs weren't moving in sync. with the turn of the dial.  :(
 
Quote from: quickdtoo on October 17, 2011, 02:23:46 PM
it's always something like this that happens when you're crunched for time!

 
Quote from: bikerbeans on October 17, 2011, 03:52:10 PM
You still got time to get your 444M ready for opening day.

 
Ain't it the truth.  My fault for putting an untested scope on it when I knew I didn't have any time.  HI-ebber, and day always be a hi-ebber,  ;D I don't have to get kicked in the head twice!   8)
 
I haven't got brass, bullets, dies and such for the 444 yet, but Last night I loaded up some 30-30's with 125 gr. Rem CL's and put a tried and true Leupold 1x5 on it!   ;)  Trust me, I WILL hunt with a Handi this year!   :D
 
Quote from: petemi on October 17, 2011, 02:33:09 PM

My Handi .500 is OK, but it's not my favorite rifle.  I really don't think what you get out of it is worth the effort, pain and expense.

 
Quote from: Spanky on October 17, 2011, 03:15:01 PM

I loaded up some stiff loads with jacketed bullets too but the recoil off the bench was a little stiff for my liking.

 
Hey Pete, Spank!
I really didn't think the recoil was all that bad...  :-\  My two hunting buddies sure did though!   ;D  But, I must admit, after shooting somewhere around 10-15 rounds off the bench I was willing to stop.   ;)  And, for the first time in a long time, low and behold, my shoulder was black and blue!   :o
 
Quote from: gcrank1 on October 18, 2011, 05:36:11 AM

I don't have one, but if I did I would be making 50-70 to 50-90 BP equiv. loads for it,

 
Quote from: manatee1947 on October 18, 2011, 05:11:31 AM
I love mine, it is the easiest gun to cast for and load that I own.

 
Well, I like big bores.  I guess recoil is just one of those things that goes along with them...  :-\  And I like casting and loading for them.  Even loading some "plinking" loads in the 50-70, 50-90 range...  ::)  But, if I were to want anything out of the 500's area, it would have to be a 50-140!   :P  Heyyyyyyyyy, maybe I found a use for that extra 280 barrel I have!  ;D
 
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 18, 2011, 09:50:26 AM

Richard, I had a buddy that got burned by this; hope you're not in the same boat:

Great Minds!   ;D  That was one of my first thoughts also Joe!  However, this is a fixed low power scope and the ones I have seen counterfitted were the high price stuff.  We even had a guy at a gun show selling them.  I took one look and noticed all the serial numbers were the same!   ::)
 
I will check with Leupold before I mail the scope in.  Just in case don't cha know.
 
For some reason I just feel that this rifle will shoot cast and jacketed well.  And I really wanted to pop a deer with the little 400 gr.   ;)  Oh well, it's a long season!   ;D
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Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2011, 07:47:41 AM »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 18, 2011, 09:50:26 AM
Richard, I had a buddy that got burned by this; hope you're not in the same boat:

Last night I finally got a chance to check the scope.  The rings and mounts were good and tight.   ;)
 
I then looked at the scope carefully.  At first glance it is obviously a Leupold.  But a closer inspection revealed markings that are there that don't look right, and markings you would expect to see absent.   :-\
 
I called Leupold today and the rep said the serial number was one they used, but he agreed with me that the markings on the scope aren't correct.  He asked me to send him close up pictures  which I will do after I get back from hunting this weekend.
 
He did say that most of their counterfit problems were with the M8 line.
 
We'll see.  I PM'd the member I bought it from but haven't got a reply yet.
 
I still say it wasn't the rifle's fault!   ;D
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2011, 07:52:13 AM »
Didnt that rifle come with a sight set?
Bummer about the scope!
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22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 08:38:23 AM »
I bought the barrel from a member here.  No sights.   :(
 
Since the only non-telescoptic sights I can use are of the receiver type, I was going to put a set on after the season...
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2011, 08:44:44 AM »
Put a screw in the front scope rail hole and have it just a tad above flush, paint it white. If you have a front ramp laying around tape it on with electricians tape and try it using the rear dot and front bead (or if its a blade paint the tip white too). Sights are just a point of reference and these would work like dbl beads on a shotgun, stack 'em and the front on target and tap off the shot.
This is my 'poor mans' version of express sights but you are welcome to it  ;D .
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2011, 10:22:25 AM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on October 21, 2011, 08:44:44 AM
This is my 'poor mans' version of express sights but you are welcome to it  ;D .

Well darn Blake!   :o   That's just slick as heck!  I got to try that just for grins if nothing else!   ;D
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Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
Support your local US Military Vets Motorcycle Club

Offline tacklebury

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2011, 01:21:20 PM »
Just used a thumbscrew from Home depot and a little drill bit to make a peep for a rear on a pack gun.  Screwed it into a dovetail piece layin around and presto self locking peep.  ;)
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.

Offline AtlLaw

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Stupid is as Stupid does... Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 09:18:06 AM »
And if that's so I'm pretty darn stupid!   :(
 
After talking to y'all, Leupold customer service and PMing the seller, I finally took the scope off the 500.  Now you must understand, I have probably mounted in the hundreds of scopes.  But in this case I mounted the Leupold 90 degrees off from top dead center!   ::)  No wonder I couldn't dial it in! 
 
I can't believe I did that!   :-[   But when I was doing it I remember ignored that little voice in the back of my head telling me that something wasn't right.
 
So, back to sighting-in square one.  That's okay, the bruise on my shoulder is just about gone...  ;)
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Richard
Former Captain of Horse, keeper of the peace and interpreter of statute.  Currently a Gentleman of leisure.
Nemo me impune lacessit

                      
Support your local US Military Vets Motorcycle Club

Offline gcrank1

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Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2011, 09:22:41 AM »
Richard, you are welcome at my fire anytime  ;)
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"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Stupid is as Stupid does... Re: 500 S&W woes
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2011, 11:04:37 AM »
Quote from: AtlLaw on October 27, 2011, 09:18:06 AM
But in this case I mounted the Leupold 90 degrees off from top dead center!   ::) 

Ummm, was that one of those southpaw scopes maybe?  :P  You weren't makin shims earlier, wuz ya?  

Tim
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"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain
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