Fast twist barrels

[ibgp3]

Big long high ballistic coefficient bullets don't do well in standard barrels.
The best BC .223 bullets don't stabilize in barrels with a 1 in 7" twist, and don't always stabilize in 1 in 6.5".
The best BC .243 bullets call for a twist of 1 in 8" or faster.


I can send a .223 barrel to Cut Rifles and get back a .243 with whatever twist I want, BUT he doesn't bore from .17 to .223


I would like for my first Handi custom barrel to be a 22-250 with a 1 in 6" twist.


Anybody know a way?

[myarmor]

Not much choice other than doing a stub job to get where you want with a 22-250 in that twist.
 
 
-Aaron

[PHATINJUN]

Just what bullet do you think you will be looking to shoot in a 1-6 twist .22 . I got a 1-9 in a 22-250AI and it will shoot just about any I have seen. I have settled on 55 gr it is good for just about as far as the 6-18x40 Luepold will let me see. Kurt

[ibgp3]

Like these:



Sierra MatchKing Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 90 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail

Technical InformationCaliber: 22
[/size]

• Bullet Diameter: 0.224

• Bullet Weight: 90 Grains

• Bullet Style: Hollow Point Boat Tail

• 
  
  Ballistics Information:
  Sectional Density:

• 0.256Ballistic Coefficient:

• 0.504
  Sierra recommends this bullet be used in barrels with a 1:6.5" twist rate
  
  
  or
  
  
  
  
  Berger Target Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 90 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail
  
  
  
  Technical Information
  
  Sectional Density: 0.256

• Ballistic Coefficient: 0.552

• Recommended Twist Rate: 1 in 7"

• 
  With this kind of bullet the 556 rifles took the 600m competitions away from the .308's.

[PHATINJUN]

Wow did not realize they recommended that fast twist in the .22 cal .I knew some of the bullet burner black guns used the 1-7's and such but just thought they were shootin 100+gr bullets in them. Stub is about your only choice as I don't think you would want to use a .17 bbl to rebore. I have shot those out of my 1-9 and it would shoot them near 1" but with my main goal for Prairie dogs did not spend any real time or powder on getting them tighter. Kurt

[quickdtoo]

As Aaron and Kurt suggested, you don't want to do a rebore on an H&R 17HMR or 17MII even if you find someone that would, they're 1137 mild steel compared to 4140 alloy of centerfire rifles, wouldn't be money well spent at all for barrel longevity, your only option is a stub.

Tim

[BUGEYE]

since the .226 barnes shoots a 125gr bullet, what twist would that require ?

[quickdtoo]

You can calculate what it would need if you know the bullet length and MV.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

Lilja has a good page on twist.

Tim

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm

[BUGEYE]

thanks quick,  it's in a Sam Fadala book that I have.  when I get the specs, I'll post'em.

[BUGEYE]

went to Sams book.
bullet lenght is 1.42 inches
diameter .226
twist 1 in 5.5 inches
muzzle velocity 2700 FPS
at 125 grains, it should be a good deer cartridge.
Fred Barnes developed it from a blown out 7x57

[manatee1947]

I cannot think of a worse deer cartridge. One, it would probably be an accurate long range cartridge, encouraging that group of shooters that want to make ultra long shots, and although it might provide penetration due to sectional density, it certainly would not provide expansion and effective energy transfer. Even up close, the very design that makes it so attractive at long range would make it even worse at close range, probably providing near FMJ performance. Deer are taken most reliably, most humanely, and with less tissue damage, by medium velocity large diameter bullets with controlled but significant expansion. I have killed around a hundred deer, with cartridges from 22 magnum through 500 S&W. I can tell you that the single most effective caliber I have ever used is the 444 Marlin. The 22 you envision may be a terrific target rifle, and an effective varmint rifle, it would not be a candidate for deer.

[BUGEYE]

I cannot think of a worse deer cartridge. One, it would probably be an accurate long range cartridge, encouraging that group of shooters that want to make ultra long shots, and although it might provide penetration due to sectional density, it certainly would not provide expansion and effective energy transfer. Even up close, the very design that makes it so attractive at long range would make it even worse at close range, probably providing near FMJ performance. Deer are taken most reliably, most humanely, and with less tissue damage, by medium velocity large diameter bullets with controlled but significant expansion. I have killed around a hundred deer, with cartridges from 22 magnum through 500 S&W. I can tell you that the single most effective caliber I have ever used is the 444 Marlin. The 22 you envision may be a terrific target rifle, and an effective varmint rifle, it would not be a candidate for deer.

not according to Fred Barnes. he very carefully hand made all the bullets used in his test and they were more effective than other 125gr bullets available for 7mm to 30cal.

[manatee1947]

I will not say that a specific bullet might not perform in a particular circumstance, on a specific animal, I have had deer that were shot at 35 yards in the head with a 22 Hornet that dropped in their tracks and zero meat damage, they went from back yard to freezer in under 2 hours. It is not a practice that I recommend, nor do I use a gun that light except in extraordinary circumstances. The average hunter is not Daniel Boone, encouraging him to use equipment that is marginal under even favorable circumstances is not good for either the sport, the animal population, and ultimately, the hunter. That would be like touting the 410 as a skeet gun, it certainly can be done, but maybe not a good idea. IMHO.

[BUGEYE]

I will not say that a specific bullet might not perform in a particular circumstance, on a specific animal, I have had deer that were shot at 35 yards in the head with a 22 Hornet that dropped in their tracks and zero meat damage, they went from back yard to freezer in under 2 hours. It is not a practice that I recommend, nor do I use a gun that light except in extraordinary circumstances. The average hunter is not Daniel Boone, encouraging him to use equipment that is marginal under even favorable circumstances is not good for either the sport, the animal population, and ultimately, the hunter. That would be like touting the 410 as a skeet gun, it certainly can be done, but maybe not a good idea. IMHO.

so 6.5mm, 270, 7mm and 30cal using well built 125gr bullets shouldn't be used ?

[gcrank1]

The effect of frontal area on game is something not easily turned into a calculation, and terminal performance of small calibers is mostly dependent upon reliable expansion to (oh wonders) a larger caliber.
I find it of interest that the most experienced hunters generally 'stop trying to see how small a caliber they can take game with (and, yes, the caliber needs to be suited to the game)' and we have a plethora of data in real world situations of what calibers are most appropriate for certain game.
Your idea, and precision placement, would 'probably' work pretty well. The problem is, that when taking game, some critter can suffer (and this with any caliber poorly placed), and we, here, are (mostly) awfully conscious of that.

[BUGEYE]

when I used to deer hunt, I used a 20ga slug most of the time.  but after reading up on this particular cartridge, I thinks it would be a good choice for the die-hard .22 advocates.  it's head and shoulders above the 22-250 etc.
if I were able to hunt deer again, I'd blow the dust off of my 20ga and have at it.

[Default_Required]

Clean kills come from accurate shot placement and well constructed bullets....I have seen the "Big and Slow vs. Fast and Small" debate time and again. I love my 444 marlin and have cleanly taken animals with authority using that caliber hand loaded, Also have taken plenty of game with the like of 22 mag and 223/5.56 ( 22 mag being a top choice of poachers in my area ). I have taken numerous animals with the 243 with a 100 gr pill , and for the like of me cannot see how a 125gr .226 bullet @ 2700fps in a partition style or barnes copper X or even a trophy bonded bear claw design would be less effective at putting bambi in the freezer then a 150gr 30-30 ... Mind you I agree that caliber should be chosen for intended game, but with deer in mind a 75gr hornady TAP in 223 is quite enough for thin skined deer with good placement.
 Sorry i have nothing for the original poster that hasnt already been touched on.

[Dinny]

Getting us back to the original topic  , I suggest that a 1:7" twist will suffice for your long heavy target bullets. I have seen some of our nation's best marksmen shooting those bullets with incredible accuracy from ARs with that twist.


Just my 2 cents worth.  


For long-range match purposes, long, high-BC bullets are favored for their ability to buck the wind. You'll want at least a 1:8" twist to shoot the 77gr and 80gr MatchKings and 80gr Bergers. To shoot the new 90gr pills, a 1:6.5" is recommended, though a true 1:7" will work in most conditions.
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html




"We recommend a 1-7 twist for this bullet they have been shot in a 8 twist but we have also had failures in 8 twist barrels. You pick your barrel maker all of the major custom barrel makers are OK. When chambered and throated to have one caliber 0.224 in the neck cartridge over all length will be 2.780 inches.
When a bullet blows up from excusive RPM's it will occur at 30 yards to 70 yards down range

If we can be of any additional help feel free to contact us.
Thanks for your interest and have a great day.

Walt Berger
Berger Bullets
Technical Advisor"



Thanks, Dinny

[ibgp3]

I cannot think of a worse deer cartridge.

The lines blur here and there, but I see three basic kinds of bullets:
   1) Military (FMJ)
   2) Game  (Graded by expansion and penetration)
   3) Target (Graded by ballistics)
    A cartridge with a target or a military bullet is a poor deer cartridge. Lots of game has been taken with these poor deer cartridges. Lots of game has been lost after being shot with good game bullets.
    A 90gr from a 22-250 has a special kind of abuse potential, and I agree with Manatee that it would be on the list of worst deer cartridges.
    I do not intend to hunt with my 22-250.

[tacklebury]

If it were me, I'd start with a decent AR barrel like:
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/productdetail.aspx?id=GM-M5
Then find a donor barrel with enough meat to float it internally, or stub it at the rear, maybe an ultra slug 20?  then you can bore through and thread the stub to accept the std. AR style barrel.  Plus you will still have std. scope mounts possibly.  I'm not a gunsmith, but might get you a start point.  If you don't like that length, you might be able to use this, but it's 1:8 twist.
http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/productdetail.aspx?id=GM-M16