12ga or 20ga

[nailbanger]

Going to get a 18&1/2" house gun. I have a DBL 20ga bird gun.Should I give up the extra power of a 12ga to be able to stockpile only one gauge of shell? Would that make much difference in the utility of this type of short range shotgun w/buck or slugs?
I know I could use the DBL but you gun folks know how wanting a new gun overrides logic.

[BUGEYE]

20ga all the way.  modern ammo has narrowed the 12/20 gap.

[no guns here]

12 gauge all the way... more universally available than any other gauge.  Loaded down to 20 gauge or up to 10 gauge levels... 20 just can't match 12 on the heavy end.
 
I like my 20's but those are for upland birds for me.  For HD or SHTF I'd rather the 12...
 
 
NGH

[Couger]

Going to get a 18&1/2" house gun. I have a DBL 20ga bird gun.Should I give up the extra power of a 12ga to be able to stockpile only one gauge of shell? Would that make much difference in the utility of this type of short range shotgun w/buck or slugs?
I know I could use the DBL but you gun folks know how wanting a new gun overrides logic.

For a survival/house/truck/doomsday(SHTF) type shotgun, a twenty will never EVER equal a twelve gauge!  PHYSICS do not change.
 
NOW, If the only consideration was CONVENIENCE and personal logistics, going "twnety all the way" in that case makes a lot of sense.
 
Also, for a SHTF scenario/ and "combat" shotgun, sheer popularity and commonality - being able to find, trade for, acquire add'l ammo would dictate to me to go with the ".30/06 or .22LR of shotguns", the venerable (and most popular) 12 gauge!! 
 
Plus 12 ga buckshot and slug loads beat ALL OTHER buck and slug gauges, except perhaps the 10ga ..... if one can find 10ga loads in buckshot and slugs, usually handloaded.
 
PHYSICS simply do not change.   
 
That said however ..... I was recently looking on Gunbroker for a short barreled quail gun, and also any rabbit-earred exposed hammer SXS's.  There are indeed some nice0looking (well made) short SXS's available, even in 20ga.  Also some of the 20inch 20ga and 12ga SXS's were darned impressive, but a pumpgun oe semi-auto still carries more shots!  And with magazine extensions even MORE shots.
 
And ONE sub-topic not yet mentioned is if any women in your family would be better equipped with a 20gagger because of less recoil and and lighter weight more compact shotty .....
 
This deserves some thought!  For smaller statured adults/family members.
 
Esp for just a house gun and self dense, where ranges are measured in "feet!"  Plus you can already determine the range AND WHERE any probable shots might occur if they ever occurred (intruders, home invaders) in a home you're already familiar with!!
 
As appealing as a SXS "defense" gun is, the 3rd or more shots from pumpgun should be considered in defense / combat shotguns too.
 
ADDED:  I have singleshot shotguns for 'emergencies' and so-called zoombie invasions.  For SHTF scenarios I'll have light 12ga loads (skeet loads or similar), but ALSO the ability to use MOST scrounged or traded-for ammo. 
 
When upland hunting I prefer a 20gauge, or a lightweight 12ver with usually one or 1 1/8th ounces of shot, but those are NOT do-or-die scenarios nor SHTF / TEOTWAWKI scenarios.

[mannyrock]

 
Nailbanger,
 
   The key factor here is that you say you are going to buy a "house gun," which I assume means a shotgun for home defense.
 
   For goodness sakes, the longest shot you could possibly take in your house would be 25 feet or so.  If you had to blast someone with a 20 gauge mag shell at 25 feet, he would be almost cut in half.  And, anyone standing behind him would probably go down as well.  (I am assuming you are using at least a magnum #4 duck shell.)
 
   Take your gun out with a magnum #4, set up a piece of 3/4 plywood, and blast it at 25 feet.  I'm thinking you will create a hole the size of a baseball.
 
   No, you don't need a 12.  Stick with the 20.  Law Enforcement Officers are fond of saying "20 is plenty."
 
Best, Mannyrock

[BUGEYE]

Couger, your remark about women is right-on.  my wife has shot both and will never shoot a 12 ever again.  she prefers a .410 so I will probably look for a used one.

[Lost Farmboy]

  House gun. 20 ga.

[hillbill]

either is fine, get what yu like.id stock pile shells for 12 and 20. they make good tradeing material.at close range i dont think a perp will know the diff tween 12 or 20 oobuck?

[pastorp]

Can you buy 20 gauge shells in 00?

But I agree the 20 is enough.

Regards,

[SHOOTALL]

realistic , if anyone of smaller stature or recoil sensitive will use the gun ( like when you are away or injured ) then the 20 by all means. If a selection of buck shot is a requirement then the 12 wins hands down. Remember 12 ga reduced power loads are aval. With slugs I doubt what ever gets hit will ever know. But with slugs and to a point with any shot shell gun weight matters in recoil management . The British have rules of thumb on this and try to maintain a weight where the shooter won't suffer. Slug shooting is very complex if you want to be accurate shot to shot. One must hold the gun consistant and tight. A light 20 at such times may be right for some but others would benifit from more weight. As for toting shells the 20 has more to the pound.
 The deal is both shoot about 1200 FPS + or - some. A target getting hit with one shot or three won't know the difference but a full load from a 12 carries more shot and will put more energy on the target. Is it needed ? Also at distance the more shot the more chance to connect.
 20 ga buck is limited to #3 shot #2 is all but impossible to find most places . both are larger than #4 shot often used in a 12 ga. . You can hand load what ever you want.
 The 20 ga pump youth mod rem 870 is about as handi as they come. If a pump is on the maybe list check it out and the youth model works well for most. Its like a 30 carbine with punch. It can be shot one handed by some. There are mag extensions for the 870 20 ga now so if you go that way look at what ext. mag you want before settling on a bbl length , bad form for ext to sit out to far.
 nope didn't say which was best cause don't know your need , you got to decide who wil use and for what with what ammo then you will know the right one.

[45-70.gov]

Going to get a 18&1/2" house gun. I have a DBL 20ga bird gun.Should I give up the extra power of a 12ga to be able to stockpile only one gauge of shell? Would that make much difference in the utility of this type of short range shotgun w/buck or slugs?
I know I could use the DBL but you gun folks know how wanting a new gun overrides logic.

your 20 gauge will work  fine
the 20 has a few advantages.......especially if you already shoot a 20
yes the 12 is better
but a 20 gauge  at in the house range  is overkill anyway


logic says get another 20
you said...
I know I could use the DBL but you gun folks know how wanting a new gun overrides logic.


get the 12
take them both out and answer the question yourself


i would fear you with your familier 20 DBL with buckshot
more than your  new 12


be carefull not to mix your birdshot with the serious stuff

[Lloyd Smale]

taking the post in contex i take it your wanting a home protection gun not a survival gun. Either will put down anyone at in home ranges.

[jamesrus]

20 guage all the way....but as far as what shells to use.....here is s little project....3 inch magnum #6 shot....vs. 3 inch magnum 00 buck.....shoot an old aluminum sign with one round of both and see which will punch through the aluminum. Please be careful while doing this. #6 shot all the way.
 
Jamesrus
 

[vacek]

I'm actually partial to 410 with #6 shot either in 2.5 inch or 3.  I grew up with them all but really found out I could pretty much get what I wanted with my ole Iver Johnson 2.5 410 that belongs to my grandma's long lost brother.... Talked her  out of it.   
 
I understand it isn't worth anything as a slug gun or with buck .... but other than that it is my go to.

[SHOOTALL]

As for 2.5 vs 3 inch shells , if your gun is a pump go with the shorter shell . There is less chance of short stroking the gun and ending up with an empty chamber. I feel the same with an auto loader .
The #6 vs buck has been debated for years. Check out "IN THE BOX" to see real results as homes have sheetrock not alum walls in most cases . That said as I ride around there are many ( to many) road signs shot. Buck seems to go thru. if close , fine shot like #6 or larger seems to dent at very close range and scratch at much past 15 feet. At  a foot or so it may go thru. But here is the point when a fight starts you often won't know how many are in the fight. You may not know where they are. You first shot may be point blank or very close where any size shot will work. Into the fight things may change . You may be forced to leave the bed room or other secure spot. Fire or heavy gun fire may force you out. Your next target may be across the yard or other place that would require buck shot to defeat. Why limit yourself ?

[no guns here]

I've kept #6 loaded for years just because I was normally in dense neighborhoods.  Now I have a small place with neighbors about 100yds apart.  Just had a scare on Monday night and we had to go clear the back of the property.  I had the #6's and was sort of wishing for something a bit heavier for more range.  I think I'll drop down to something a little bigger.  Probably not double-ought but heavier than #6 and more pellets than 00. 
 
What I'd really like is to get an M4 sized gun with an integral suppressor in .45 acp.  Been looking... might have to spend the money and pay the taxes on one...
 
 
NGH

[SHOOTALL]

Might look at a AR in 223 . With HP ammo it is becomming the gun of many entry teams and the like. When it hits something up close it expands and sheads energy better than handgun bullets ot buckshot.

[no guns here]

yep but hard to suppress supersonic .223...  the .45 acp just barely get supersonic in an un-ported, un-supressed carbine.  Porting and supressing will keep it subsonic but about 100-150 fps faster than pistol velocities.  Still love that 230 grain .45 hydra-shok...  plus I get a shorter range with the .45 so less worry about the dude two or three houses down the road.
 
NGH

[SHOOTALL]

True to a point , that being the use of standard vel. ammo. If however the use of subsonic or nearly so ammo is used in the 223 then it can be very quiet. I have witnessed both sub s. and standard ammo in a suppressed AR . The suppresed is almost not noticed and standard sounds more like an air leak than loud bang.

[no guns here]

Sorry we highjacked the thread... didn't mean to, it just happened...
 
I gots no 'sperience with this but this is my thought...  I'd still go for the 12 ga... teach the woman how to shoot and she won't have any problems with it.
 
A suppressed .223 is still a little bullet that probably won't open or mushroom at 1000 fps.
 
A suppressed .45 is still a big bullet DESIGNED to open and mushroom at 900 fps.
 
Both can be quiet but it seems to me the .45 would be better for home or small property defense against just about all threats.
 
NGH

[Couger]

I've kept #6 loaded for years just because I was normally in dense neighborhoods.  Now I have a small place with neighbors about 100yds apart.  Just had a scare on Monday night and we had to go clear the back of the property.  I had the #6's and was sort of wishing for something a bit heavier for more range.  I think I'll drop down to something a little bigger.  Probably not double-ought but heavier than #6 and more pellets than 00. 
 
What I'd really like is to get an M4 sized gun with an integral suppressor in .45 acp.  Been looking... might have to spend the money and pay the taxes on one...  NGH 

In a 12gagger look at a standard #4Buck load in the 2 3/4"  Gives you TWENTY-SEVEN .24 caliber pellets in the 2 3/4nch load.  Would be my first buckshot choice in 12ga, #1Buck would be my second choice in 2 3/4" 12 gauge.
 
20 gauge?  Once upon a time Federal offerred a 3inch #2Buck load, but usually the ONLY LOAD in 20gauge buckshot is a 2 3/4" load of #3Buck, with 20 pellets.

[SHOOTALL]

I doubt most home owners will go for a suppressor and the paper work involved . And the extra length of the supp. will make the gun cumbersome in a home. An M-4 style in 223 makes much more sense.
 Buck shot also makes more sense as does a 20 in the home .

[45-70.gov]

he can get a 12ga  AND a 20ga
for what  JUST a suppressor cost....not to mention the AR cost


now thats a thought,,,,,get  both...been on the H&R site too much

[no guns here]

AR's in pistol chamberings can be integrally suppressed emiliminating the length issue.
 
I'm not familiar with the buckshot designation... I've never put it all together.
 
 
I know birdshot but not buckshot... I assume the #4 buck is NOT the same as # in turkey loads???
 
 
NGH

[SHOOTALL]

Buck small #4(24 cal.)  ,3,2,1(30 cal) 0 , 00, 000, large then there are round balls and Dixie darlings , then slugs.
Yes a supressed AR pistol woul/could be shorter , But would it make a good all around home defense weapon ? But you still have a large bullet that can go thru several walls .
 If a suppressed handgun fireing platform is the goal there are many made that are better than an adaption on an AR reciver. A Glock with extended mag comes to mind as does a MAC or clone.
And why is it important to cut sound ? home owners have been saying stop with shotguns for years and with good results.
The 20 is more handi than the 12 ga and the 12 is more powerful bottom line, ask yourself which you would not like to get shot with ? See either will do.

[Lost Farmboy]

  One of the guys I work with has a son that is a cop. He told me a story about some cops from a nearby town. The got AR-15 pistols for their cops. The cops surrounded the house. Then for some reason somebody started shooting, and they all started shooting. After the shooting stopped they discovered that the house was empty. The bullets went though the house and they were shooting at each other.

[no guns here]

AR pistols... stupid idea in general except for suppressive fire.  Gotta be able to aim dontcha know.
 
I agree about the saying STOP rather emphatically with a shotgun.  Works great and would suffice rather well for most all needs.
 
I have already ruined a good portion of my hearing.  If I can preserve the rest, that would be good.  Don't get me wrong, I'd rather be deaf than dead so I wouldn't have a problem using the 12 indoors.
 
The 20 isn't really anymore "handy" than the 12.  They come in almost exactly the same size package with the same function.  It IS a bit easier to use.  However, ANYONE can use a 12 effectively with a bit of familiarization.  My daughter, then 12-13 was shooting trap with a full sized 12 gauge and breaking 16-18 birds.  Just takes practice.
 
The suppressed pistol is still a good weapon, BUT you don't get two hand control or easy weapon retention.  It's harder to use red-dots/NV/laser with and isn't as easy to shoot accurately.  I'd rather use a long gun if possible.
 
The pistol caliber is a choice because it's effective, easy to control in a 8-9 pound rifle, easy to suppress and has just about the perfect range for my current situation.  Fired horizontally, it most likely won't be penetrating my neighbors houses since two are about 100 yds away and the other two are about 200 yards away.
 
 
Okay, so is #4 buck the same as #4 birdshot (like for turkey or duck)?
 
 
NGH

[no guns here]

Aaah hah!  Answered my own question, amazing what the 'net has out there huh?
 
http://www.gun-shots.net/shot-sizes.shtml
 
 
NGH
 
 
STEEL SHOT
 

Shot Number	Diameter (in)	Diameter (mm)	Pellets in a 1oz load
7	.10	2.54	422
6	.11	2.79	317
5	.12	3.81	244
4	.13	3.56	191
3	.14	3.30	154
2	.15	3.05	125
1	.16	2.79	103
BB	.18	4.57	72
BBB	.19	4.83	61
T	.20	5.08	53
F	.22	5.59

LEAD SHOT

 

Shot Number	Diameter (in)	Diameter (mm)	Pellets in a 1oz load
12	.05	1.3	2300
9	.079	2.01	585
8.5	.085	2.16	470
8	.089	2.26	410
7.5	.094	2.39	350
6	.109	2.77	225
5	.120	3.05	170
4	.129	3.28	135
2	.148	3.76	90
BB	.18	4.57	50
4 Buck	.24	6.10	21
3 Buck	.25	6.35	19
2 Buck	.27	6.86	15
1 Buck	.30	7.62	11
0 Buck	.32	8.13	9
00 Buck	.33	8.38	8
000 Buck	.36	9.14	6.2

[SHOOTALL]

NGH , to me handy means less weight , I admit to being a bird hunter and a light gun swings faster even though follow thru. may not be as good as a heavy gun. 20' and 12's may be same length but over all the 20 is smaller schale and less weight. Also you seldom see a 12 youth model which is a great size for HD , think 30 carbine in a shotgun.
 Yes anyone can shoot bird shot with a full size gun but a load that will take out a bad guy is going to hurt on both ends. Now if the guy wants to cut the stock down on a 12 then bird shot of equal weight will kick less in the 12. An oz of #8 shot at 1200 fps will kick less in heavier gun.

[no guns here]

Remington 1187 youth 20 gauge...  shot one last week at 4H.