Author Topic: Hy Hunter Zouave (Read 4021 times)

Sierra Sherpa · « **on:** September 08, 2011, 10:55:46 AM »

Has anyone ever hear of such a gun? I was in a local gun store and came across this. Not having my glasses with me, I couldn't read any of the barrel markings. But the sales tag said "Hy Hunter Zouave." It's a .58 caliber, 2-band percussion gun. It has a flip-up/down rear sight. The metal ramrod was threaded at the end opposite the loading jag end. It did not bottom out when I reversed it, as when loading.

From what I could tell, again w/o my glasses, the blondish wooden stock looked in good condition, the lock and hammer too. I cocked the gun and the trigger broke smoothly w/o being overly heavy. The crown and end of internal barrel looked good. The length of pull fit me very well. The gun felt like it weighed around 8-9 lbs. They are asking $350.

My 2009 Standard Catalog of Firearms lists a "Hy-Hunter, Inc." of Burbank, CA. But there is no mention of a Zouave model.

What do you guys think? Appreciate any help I can get as this question seems to have stumped everyone I've checked with.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2011, 12:36:46 PM »

From your description it sounds like a nice reproduction of the Zouave Rifle. I'm familiar with the Navy Arms Zouave that was imported in the 70's and the early 80's. That gun was a great product and actually very accurate.

If the rifle that you are looking at is in good condition, then I'd say that you've probably got a pretty good deal for a replica Zouave at $350.00.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2011, 04:28:24 PM »

What I remember and what I could gather from Google is that this was an Italian import. I saw one which was sold recently for $395, another for $325 so your price looks reasonable. The Navy Arms import Zouave was also available with a shortened barrel as the Buffalo Hunter, which Val Forgett (sp?) used to take an elephant in Africa. A good solid rifle and worth the money.

-WH-

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2011, 03:22:15 AM »

Quote from: Winter Hawk on September 08, 2011, 04:28:24 PM

..... The Navy Arms import Zouave was also available with a shortened barrel as the Buffalo Hunter, which Val Forgett (sp?) used to take an elephant in Africa. A good solid rifle and worth the money.

As an Aside: I remember the Bufffalo Hunter. I bought one the first time I saw it in the Navy Arms Catalog. Several of my friends wanted this firearm after seeing mine. But it seems that the 1st ones that were available were of excellent quality, but as time passed quality and workmanship suffered.The Buffalo Hunters that we recieved in the later shipments definately were not of the same high quality of those first firearms.

Eventually the Buffalo Hunter was discontinued.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2011, 04:40:20 AM »

But are the Navy Arms and Hy Hunter Zouaves one and the same? I am learning that some Hy Hunter Zouaves suffered from what is called a "brazed on" breech as opposed to a machined or welded one. This has led to reports of burst breeches/barrels. I want to hunt with the gun and don't savor the prospect of having it blow up on me while in the mountains. Really on the fence on this one. $:-\$

keith44 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2011, 06:49:51 AM »

if the breech is brazed or soldered in place then the gun is for very light loads only!! I can't imagine a manufacturer doing something so blatently unsafe these days, though. Go back to the store and ask to examine the owners manual and look at the recommended loads.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2011, 08:57:23 AM »

I agree Keith44. However, if it's a Hy Hunter Zouave it's likely to be nearly 50 years old. It's in the store's used gun section and I don't know if they have an owner's manual. I'll try and get down there today. Thanks.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2011, 01:51:31 PM »

Well, the gun didn't have any of the A. Zoli brand markings nor did it have the "W" that later versions had, indicating the bolsters were welded instead of brazed. It had the Hy Hunter stamp and Hollywood, CA address. There were a row of symbols on the left-side breech and it was stamped "Made in Italy." I passed on the gun. Back to the drawing board.

ratdog · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2011, 05:25:50 AM »

i have a navy 58 cal good shooter also had navy arms buffalo hunter wasn't as accurate the new gun sell over 700. have not seen a hy hunter.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2011, 06:33:08 AM »

Ratdog,

Hy Hunter was just the importer/distributor. I don't know who the gun's manufacturer was, but maybe I should pay the store another visit and look at the markings a little closer. I've learned more info on how to read the proof markings that give a date of build as well as name of proof houses. From what I've gathered, after a certain date (1969) Zouave rifles were made with the stronger bolsters. $:-\$

Co. Batguano · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2011, 11:46:06 AM »

So the Zoli Italian Zoaves (or any other Zoli rifles) aren't safe to shoot with real loads?

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #11 on:** September 19, 2011, 05:55:51 PM »

The other way around. The Zoli Zouaves are the SAFE ones. Although all I've really been able to confirm is that there were reports of the non-Zoli Zouaves with the brazed on bolsters being dangerous. Maybe someone here knows for sure? I asked the question on the N-SSA (North-South Skirmish Assoc.) site and understood that one of the members there fired thousands of shots through his Zouave before the organization banned them.

I checked the stampings on the gun in the store and it was made in 1963 and had the Italian proof house markings. I couldn't see the tell-tale "gold" joint edge a brazed bolster sports where it joins the barrel.

lakota · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2011, 06:59:56 AM »

It stinks to find a gun you really like and then find out its a lemon. I had that happen with a used Hatfield rifle. I was really excited and bought it on the spot. I got home and researched them and found out mine was a late production when quality control was lax. i never got to fire the rifle. It wouldnt stay cocked half the time the triggers wouldnt set and all of the thimbles fell off at one point or another. Thankfully I bought it from a very upstanding shop. They sent it to a gunsmith on their dollar several times and when he couldnt figure out what was wrong with it they just bought it back from me for what I paid them.

I know a lot of people talk down about how that shop is too expensive(Dicks Gun Room in Cuyahoga Falls Ohio) but I have found their prices competetive with anyone else in the area and they have always treated me fair so I will gladly pay a few bucks extra for the excellent customer service they provide.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2011, 08:09:09 AM »

lakota, you are very lucky to have such a fine reputable shop in your area...very nice.

I also wanted a Hatfield...they were such a fine rifle. You could get a nice halfstock or a beautiful full stock, all in a slick curley maple stck. But I waited to long and by the time that I was able to afford one, the company was clearly in decline and was shoving junk out the door to meet their sales demands.

People that had a fine quaility Hatfield wouldn't part with them and the company folded shortly after they let QC go away. Dang.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #14 on:** September 21, 2011, 09:03:41 AM »

Lakota, you are sooo right. I have gone back to the store last week and gun is still there. I have researched exhaustively online trying to determine just who is the maker and even if "brazed" bolsters actually do fail, or whether the reports are merely anecdotal. If the gun was made in 1963, it looks in remarkably good condition for something that was fired (I'm presuming so) with a flawed part. I asked the store's counter guy but he had no info beyond what was on the sales tag. It doesn't appear to be a Zoli, but what is it? I've been told it could be a "Sile" manufactured gun. But unable to confirm.

I checked the N-SSA website for a place to buy replacement barrels for a Zouave and to do so would have doubled the price of the gun, so I may as well buy a new replica from Pedersoli for that total price...which was what I was hoping to avoid. Well, I'm stumped here. My brain tells me to walk away, but it's a very tempting piece from what little I really know about it. Wouldn't be the first time I got suckered by a pretty face. $:-\$

keith44 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2011, 07:35:29 AM »

I just spent 2 hours looking these things up on every web site that popped up in two different search engines, and I can honestly say I don't know anything more about them than when I started the search. I've had many guns that I bought just to play with for a short time then trade off on another try and see project. With that in mind, why not make a low bid, haggle a bit to try to get the gun price down into the throw away price range (if you can) and take the thing home, tear it down and inspect it closely?? Worst case, you find out what this one is and is not, and can re-sell it at a later time, possibly use it as a trade gun.
Some times that is the most fun you will have with some guns.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2011, 09:19:57 AM »

Keith44,

I appreciate your search efforts buddy. I have come up with the same results as you: a deadend. Being retired on a fixed income I have to watch my pennies a bit more than before. I'm not a big sell/trade kinda guy, but your advice does make sense. The store isn't known for its price haggling, but could be worth the try. I've avoided the place not wanting to look too interested in the gun and I don't even know if it's still there. Might take a look next week. Thanks again.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #17 on:** September 24, 2011, 06:56:33 PM »

Sierra Sherpa...I admire your will-power.

Charcoal · « **Reply #18 on:** September 25, 2011, 06:00:22 PM »

Sierra Sherpa,I have one of these Hy-Hunter Zouves.You have done the proper research.Nobody knows for sure what Italian maker made them.Mine is marked like the one you looked at.It has Italian proof house marks and the Hy-Hunter import markings but thats about it.Yes,they are not considered safe to shoot by the N-SSA.I got mine for $65 bucks and I use it as a decorative piece.I wouldn't pay $350 for one.

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #19 on:** September 25, 2011, 06:15:06 PM »

Charcoal, thanks for that bit of info. Glad to hear first-hand experience from someone who actually owns the gun no less! Thanks for chiming in. If I could get the gun for what you paid, that would be one thing. But I really do like shooting my guns so maybe I keep looking. This forum has been very helpful, I gotta say.

Charcoal · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2011, 10:19:58 AM »

No problem.Sad fact is these guns look nice.I would have never known the bolsters were brazed on by looking at it..I knew about these and my research mirrors yours,since the price was right I bought it anyway.Mine did not have the W on the bolster and I could not find any Zoli markings on it.These appear to have been the some of the first if not the first Zuove reproductions from the early 60s.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2011, 07:18:11 AM »

"I've been told it could be a "Sile" manufactured gun." Sile was also just an importer, they didn't manufacture anything.
I don't recall exactly what I paid for my Zoli Zouave from Gunbroker but I'm pretty sure it was less than $350. It arrived in excellent condition, looking unfired. With muzzleloaders you can buy online without going through an FFL. If you really want a Zouave I'd post a standing search on Gunbroker or some of the other online sites.

CT.Yankee · « **Reply #22 on:** September 27, 2011, 09:56:57 AM »

I have an early Hy Hunter Zouave that came with the "Certificato Di Prova"

F.A.R.A. Gordone V.T. cal .58 sn. 1238

It's all in Italian and doesn't translate very well---but numbers are numbers.

The Cert. is in this format--http://www.tiropratico.com/htm/punzoni.htm

The first test (proof of temporary loose pipes) :>)--- 1100 Kg/cm2

all of the following tests are between 900 and 1000 Kg/cm2

hope that helps --
Don

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #23 on:** September 27, 2011, 01:59:35 PM »

Well Don, my Italian's as bad as my Tagalog and I was born in the Philippine Islands! My dad was in the US military and we kids (4) all went to school on base where they taught -- ta daaaa! -- English. But that is an interesting collection of symbols and so I've bookmarked it for future use. Thanks.

The gun I've been watching has a SN of 1597, so not too much older than yours, I'm thinking. What condition is your Hy Hunter in; do you shoot it?

Sierra Sherpa · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2011, 02:18:10 PM »

CoyoteJoe,

I found this info on an old (2008) BritishMilitaria forum post:

"Okay, a google search has revealed that Sile was a black powder gun manufacturer and distributor based in New York."

It dealt with a question on Enfields and was one of the many search finds encountered during my epic Zouave investigation. Sometimes it felt like I was chasing my own tail.

CT.Yankee · « **Reply #25 on:** September 28, 2011, 05:21:48 AM »

Sierra-

I bought mine on- line this summer. I don't usually like to buy on- line but it was advertized as unfired,and the pictures looked good.

I was quite surprised when it arrived new in box.

I haven't shot it yet ---next week I'm going over to Cabelas and get some 570RB and patches.Cabelas has a bad rep for their Minies.

-Don

Co. Batguano · « **Reply #26 on:** September 28, 2011, 07:29:15 AM »

What kind of finish is on the wood? I recently acquired a pair of Armi Sports rifles; a `61 Springfield, and a `58 Enfield. Both have that puky polyurethane finish on them, and the profiles of the stocks are way too big. When I get done wrestling with the metal, I plan on stripping the poly, and sanding the stocks down to more prototypical dimensions. Then, apply the finish. Since USGI rifles used Real Linseed Oil in their finishes, that's what I'll probably go with. From my experience in re-finishing CMP Garands, that finish takes on a nice reddish patina in about 3-4 years. In 20 I suspect they'll be indistinguishible from original vintage finishes.

CT.Yankee · « **Reply #27 on:** September 28, 2011, 09:12:26 AM »

Co.

I'm not sure what the finish is---if I had to guess I'd say sprayed on urethane or lacquer.

It looks just like this one--

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7812245----they could be sisters.

this guy did a good job with the pics--the colors are true to life.

Many years ago ,I refinished a 7mm Argentine carbine in an oil finish--came out beautiful.

An old geezer I worked with told me if I wanted the boiled linseed oil to dry in this lifetime,
I should mix it with turpentine 50/50--I think it was good advise.

-Don

CT.Yankee · « **Reply #28 on:** September 28, 2011, 09:35:49 AM »

http://www.google.com/search?q=hy+hunter+zouave+live+auctions&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a--

Maybe this link will work

Co. Batguano · « **Reply #29 on:** September 28, 2011, 10:04:52 AM »

Cutting BLO with turpentine or mineral spirits is a good method. Adding a drop or two of Japan Finish to the mix helps it cure faster too. BLO has a mix of linseed oil and varnish in it. Tung Oil has some varnish in it too. Once it cures, the wood is sealed, and the finish never really oxidizes, (or not in a normal human lifetime). So, if you want a USGI color, you need to dye the wood first with an alcohol stain before the oil finish. Real Linseed Oil never really cures, bit the oxidation over the years is what gives old USGI walnut that reddish tint. The downside to RLO is that the wood is never really sealed.