Author Topic: DO YOU REALLY GET ANY FUTHER DISTANCE FROM THE 45 (Read 2405 times)

DEPUTY · « **on:** January 04, 2004, 10:25:43 AM »

Thinking of getting a 45 from ultimate firearms and was wondering do we really get and better distance from the 45 over the 50 the gun also uses a 1:20 twist http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/index.html

simonkenton · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2004, 10:42:55 AM »

In comparing the .45 elongated slug to the .50 elongated slug, you will get a better long range trajectory with the .45
Today, we are shooting .45 elongated slugs with the .50 by using sabots, so I doubt you are going to come up with and advantagewith the smaller bore.
You can even shoot a .35 elongated slug in the .50

fairchase · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:28:12 AM »

I just had the choice and choose a 50cal.
Now, as far as the claims of that firearms company... well lets just say, don't believe everything you read. I guess to get $1500.00 for a muzzleloader, the more hype the better. Let us know if it delievers, will you? Good luck.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:34:13 PM »

Quote from: DEPUTY

Thinking of getting a 45 from ultimate firearms and was wondering do we really get and better distance from the 45 over the 50 the gun also uses a 1:20 twist http://www.ultimatefirearms.com/index.html

In a muzzleloader, no-- less distance, actually.

The 1:20 twist is a real b*stard for sabots.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:41:00 PM »

Fairchase, i already own one in 50 cal and it has been used on several hunts, and has been tested and i have reached the same velocities as listed they do put out this guns have been used on several hunts on the outdoor channel and by some noted writers! I am even thinking of lwtting randy have it for a bit to play with jsut to see his thoughts! i was just going to get a 45 to just get one for maybe lopes or other smaller plains game

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2004, 01:57:48 PM »

Their web pages have typos and are confusing. One page says "250 grains pellets" the specs say "200 grains BP or pellets maximum."

Which is it supposed to be?

fairchase · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2004, 02:36:23 PM »

Good to hear it Deputy, but there is still some inconsistencies and oversights on their website that strike me as a little fishy. Anyway with that being said, It's good to hear you are happy with the 50cal you already own.

Would you mind sharing some of your technical data? What is your best set-up as far as bullet, and powder, trajectory etc? What's the rifles carry weight, complete?
Just curious...thanks.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2004, 05:32:15 PM »

they are switching around the websites people and a few other things the 250 claim is still valid with pryo i recall and not with t7 i belive 200 with t7 ill call randy in the am and verify, havent really but it on the scale i would guess 10+ pounds with glass my best so far is 300 with 200 grain charge and it shoots sub minute at 100 at 200 it shoot extra high rings and shimmed due to the scope being a 50mm swarvoski! iam working on some 200-250 loads weight loads with 200-250 grains of pellets i wish randy would get is act together with web site though! but feel free to call him he is a great guy to chat with and wil answer it all! usually after 3pm

Underclocked · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2004, 05:53:44 PM »

Did you notice their picture of the "left-hand thumbhole" model has no bolt handle on the left side? They may be great guys and there may be something about that combination of components that makes $1500 rifles out them, but I don't see it.

THE most interesting claim is the "zero blowback breech plug". How is the igniter (primer?) inserted?

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2004, 06:32:31 PM »

Cartridge, UC.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2004, 07:30:57 PM »

UC, i felt the same way until i got to shoot the gun then i was hooked the accuracy and fit and finish and just overal power of the gun and no clean up other than a quick swab of the barrel and i sold Randy maybe this spring i could ship you the rifle i have to let you give it a run! for giggles

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 05, 2004, 01:37:04 PM »

I did speak with Randy Johnson, and his claims seem quite legit-- but are confusing / conflicting as written on the website.

Saying the rifle "will burn" 250 grains of pellets is moot------------ as the recommended maximum load is 200 grains of Pyrodex pellets. He's also quoting 250 grain velocities-- again, both moot and conflicting when the max. load is 200 grains.

He's apparently spending far more for the barrel blanks alone than many muzzleloaders cost. So, the gun will do what is claimed, but it sounds bad when they offer a muzzle velocity for 180 grain bullets when only 300 gr. and above bullets are recommended for long range use, and 250 grain pellet velocities are cited-- when 200 grains is the maximum recommended load.

Everything would make far more initial sense if only 150 and 200 grain propelled 300 gr. bullet ballistics were cited-- if only to me. :wink:

DEPUTY · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2004, 05:04:45 PM »

True, know i know that we can and do shoot a lot of 250 charges in our guns, the gun can handle it thats for sure but i belive do to the liablity and lawyer stuff they recommend 200 as a max! yes the barrels are not cheap i have had good luck with the 250 grain bullets in my gun and some 220 loads, like any and all they need to be tested! glad you got a chance to talk with him. all i know is it outshoots most of my guns including centerfires, thats what i like i will pay for that kind of accuracy. maybe ill run some numbers with 150 and 200 grain charges and send them too yah randy just for giggles. i also think that when he says 300 grain for hunting it is due to the bc etc..... for large game theses guys like big and heavy we know that yes the bigger bullets due better! but for some open plains and farms the lighter weight has done just fine as well but you still cant argue the fact that is does do those numbers and has the accuracy but yes it does cost! and is the gun for everybody no! :-)

big6x6 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:36:04 AM »

So....is this an FFL form 4473 gun?

simonkenton · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:06:32 AM »

I am not saying that Ultimate Firearms is not building a very nice rifle, of course I cannot speak to the accuracy, fit and finish of this weapon.
But they are throwing bulls*** about the power of this gun.
Toby Bridges has done extensive testing to test the loads claimed by this gun maker, and he could come no where close.
Knight, TC, they all exaggerate but Ultimate Firearms is in a league of their own.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/FAQ.html

simonkenton · « **Reply #15 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:46:42 AM »

Deputy-- To be fair, Toby didn't do his tests with an Ultimate Firearms gun. He used a Savage and compared data. Maybe with their new breech plug they can get higher velocities, although Toby does address this.
If Randy isn't interested in testing your gun I am sure Toby would give it a trial. Toby is a fairminded guy and I am sure he would give your rifle an honest appraisal.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2004, 05:43:52 AM »

Quote from: DEPUTY

True, know i know that we can and do shoot a lot of 250 charges in our guns, the gun can handle it thats for sure but i belive do to the liablity and lawyer stuff they recommend 200 as a max! :-)

They need a better lawyer. If they want no 250 gr. liability, they shouldn't mention it period.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2004, 05:54:28 AM »

Quote from: simonkenton

But they are throwing bulls*** about the power of this gun.

Simon, I don't believe they are-- at all. It is well documented on video, and their stance is quite clear . . . anytime you want to see it first hand, pull the trigger for yourself, anybody is welcome, and bring your own chrono if you want. That, I'll do-- they just aren't that far away from here.

There's no bull going on at all that I can see, the reasoning is sound-- and no one has disproved any of their performance claims.

simonkenton · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2004, 07:44:26 AM »

Go fire one up, Randy, I will be interested to see what you come up with.

I bet they are bs ing to beat the band.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:12:12 AM »

Quote from: simonkenton

I bet they are bs ing to beat the band.

And just what are you betting? Deputy is getting 2265 fps . . . with a 420 grain bullet. Don't believe him, either? Think you can launch a bullet that heavy, that fast, with any other Pyrodex burner?

DEPUTY · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2004, 10:09:27 AM »

LOL! oh please bet me! iam not picking a fight really! but the gun can back it up and i belive randy(Mr.Wakeman) will end up seeing the gun in use in person and since i have a great deal of respect for him you will see. and if i recall mr bridges was offered to shoot one some time ago and passed. but check with randy j on that. simonkenton it was shown on video that load dropped a 1900 pound buffalo on tv and killed it dead on the spot dropped in its tracks at 80 yds

DEPUTY · « **Reply #21 on:** January 06, 2004, 10:20:57 AM »

Also i like the fact that a man that has never shot the gun can claim no way possible. just shoot the gun.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2004, 10:40:23 AM »

Randy, if you choose to come out and play with the gun you are more than welcome to come stay at my home, plenty of room and only 3 blocks from ultimates base shop!

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:07:21 PM »

When the weather settles down-- and a last week, we had highs in the 40s.

The puzzlement over performance is answered simply by this: this gun was designed to completely burn 4 Pyrodex pellets within the first 14 inches of barrel length-- and that is, apparently, the key to what most might question.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #24 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:28:01 PM »

very true the key is the design of the breech plug. it is very unique. Randy the door is always open for you to come visit,eat and shoot with us. the gun burns powder so well. you dont have to remove the breech plug ever in fact it isnt even recommended! that should fire you guys up a bit. lol but serious randy anytime my home is open.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 06, 2004, 05:04:09 PM »

Just bring 14 boxes of Pyrodex pellets? :gulp:

Chuck Hill, yes-- it is a Form 4473 Arm. I believe the Howa action does that.

DEPUTY · « **Reply #26 on:** January 06, 2004, 06:20:23 PM »

we have plenty of pellets!

big6x6 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 07, 2004, 02:12:08 AM »

Randy,
When I read "Howa" I figured that was coming. Thanks!

simonkenton · « **Reply #28 on:** January 07, 2004, 04:11:05 AM »

Treaat me like a fool....
Treeaaat me mean and crooool....
Buuuuut love me.....*

Ok, prove me wrong and I will say I am sorry. If they have come up with an ignition system that will do that, my hat is off to them.

*apologies to Elvis

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2004, 04:59:45 AM »

They already have some 50 dealers. At the price point the rifle is at, it obviously is not aimed at the Wally-World crowd. There is supposed to be a video clip on their website that demos the basics in the near future.

The premise is simple-- an ignition system that just produces more gas from stacks of Pyrodex pellets, yielding higher velocities. There is no one that owns one, has shot one first hand, or watched this rifle being shot in person that has ever reported that any of the performance claims were wrong. Seems to me, if you need to cry out "BS"-- you really need to have at least one person on the planet that has shot the gun in person, and found it won't do what is claimed.

On top of that, you have a moderator on this very board that owns one for himself, and has already verified that it performs just as described.