Small package varmint gun. .221 fireball in a 10" bull what twist rate?

[butchen]

Looking to make me a small package varmint Encore. I am down to 3 to pick from 1) .17 HMR ...............2) .17 fireball.........3).221 fireball...........or 4) the .223 ...........here is why on each
 
1) .17 HMR you can get them off the shelf at about any store. But they are not reloadable
 
2).17 fireball you can order them, they are reloabadle, and they are about $30 for a box of 50. But I have found no ballistics in a short barrel, and I have to order them.

 3) .221 fireball I can order them, they are reloadable, they have about the same ballistics of a .223 in a 10" and they are about $25 a box of 50. But I have to order them to get them.
 
 4) .223 I can get them any where (even at the quick stop....lol), and they are reloadable. But in a 10" they would be a flame thrower.
 
 So I am down to 4. Where do I go from here? And if you have a better round that I don't have to reload (for now) I would love to hear about it too.

[bulletstuffer]

What do you intend on shooting with them?  If noise isn't a factor and you reload the 223 with 40 grain nosler ballistic tips are a HOOT
 
Good luck,
 
Bulletstuffer

[butchen]

what kind of groups can you get out of a 10" 223 at, oh lets say 100yr. and noise isn't a factor if I put it on the first time.

[7-30 Waters]

221 Fireball in a 10" barrel would be my choice.

[Ladobe]

As said, what the varmints will be and at what ranges is the first consideration.   Are varmints in your area mice or moose? 
 
All of them will kill varmints and predators clean.
 
17HMR - will do just fine out of a short tube.
 
17 Fireball (17 Mach IV) are screamers in a short barrel.   A strong choice.
 
221 Firball - was developed for a 10" barrel, so an obvious good choice.
 
223 - does OK in short tubes, better in a 14" though.   It'll have a lot more muzzle blast than the others (does even in a 14"), and a little more recoil.
 
Only you can decide what fits your circumstance best though pard.   
 
But if it were me in your shoes with the fact that I was going to reload again as a consideration, I'd opt for the 17 Fireball or 221 Fireball... in that order.   The 17 will shoot flatter, further than the 221, a good thing for small targets.   But the Hummer is a great choice too if you don't consider the reloading.   It'll kill any varmint the others will at short barrel ranges just fine if you can place your shots well. 
 
Whatever you pick, have fun with it and practice until you are confident you can make that one good shot with it.
 
L.
 
 

[Jim Leheny]

Being the owner of a 10" and a 14" contender in 221 FB -I definitely recommend it.  Although advised otherwise the 10" is my favorite.  Whether 40 to 52 grain it performs.   It depends on Varmint and Range.
Jim

[7-30 Waters]

Looking to make me a small package varmint Encore. I am down to 3 to pick from 1) .17 HMR ...............2) .17 fireball.........3).221 fireball...........or 4) the .223 ...........here is why on each
 
1) .17 HMR you can get them off the shelf at about any store. But they are not reloadable
 
2).17 fireball you can order them, they are reloabadle, and they are about $30 for a box of 50. But I have found no ballistics in a short barrel, and I have to order them.

 3) .221 fireball I can order them, they are reloadable, they have about the same ballistics of a .223 in a 10" and they are about $25 a box of 50. But I have to order them to get them.
 
 4) .223 I can get them any where (even at the quick stop....lol), and they are reloadable. But in a 10" they would be a flame thrower.
 
 So I am down to 4. Where do I go from here? And if you have a better round that I don't have to reload (for now) I would love to hear about it too.




I hate to throw a monkey wrench in the discussion but we have overlooked an excellent cartridge that you can find ammo for?


What about the 218 Bee?  Ammo comes in boxes of 50 and is more compact and economical then the 221 Fireball.  Also a perfect cartridge for a 10" barrel.

[butchen]

the 218 bee rounds I can find run from $77 to $88 a box of 50

varmints in my area are from large ground hogs to coyotes and squirrels from time to time

I like the sound of the fireballs .17 or the .221 I don't know which but the .221 looks great in a 10" barrel haven't found much on the .17 FB but will be looking more into it.

and I want to "0" in at 150m but some longer shots......

Lodobe: what is a "hummer" your are referring to? the .17 HMR?

[Ladobe]

Lodobe: what is a "hummer" your are referring to? the .17 HMR?

LOL.   When the 17HMR cartridge first was released for sale, those of us that had firearms for them almost day one dubbed them Hummer's (I had one a couple months before, 2 more soon after).   The 17HMR is good to go well beyond 150m in a rifle for P&V, might be hard to connect from a short pistol barrel at 150m and beyond though.   Available pistol scopes is part of it - loosing 130-140fps in a 10" verses a 22"-23" rifle barrel another part - ability with a handgun verses a rifle another.   You could put a rifle scope on it to gain miles over a pistol scope, but I wouldn't, especially on a short 10".
 
The 17FB is pretty much just a commercialized 17 Mach IV, so reading up on the M4 will fill you in close on the 17FB as well if you can't a lot of info on it.   You can buy 17FB ammo, not 17M4.  If someone went with a M4 instead, they can shoot 17FB in a M4 to fireform brass while hunting, saving the more work it takes to make M4 brass from 221FB brass. 
 
As 7-30 suggested, the 218Bee is another great little cartridge in short barrels.   So is the 17 Mink, 17AH, 17 PeeWee, 17AB, !7 HeeBee, 17 Jet, 17Max, etc.    I had a 10" factory 218Bee, but it went by the wayside when I had my first 17 Ackley Bee built.
 
Can you see the trend...    When I got into the 17's many years ago and starting having what turned into a bunch of 17cal wildcats built, all my 22's became dust bunnies, even the wildcats.       IOW, for P&V I'd rather use a 17cal than a 22cal.
 
 

[7-30 Waters]

Generally, 221 Fireball ammo comes in boxes of 20.  I did however see Midway had a sale on Nosler 50 count for around $64.  That's $20 dollars cheeper than the 218 Bee.


17 Fireball ammo seems to be just a little cheeper than 221 Fireball ammo.  I would rather have the 221 Fireball with a heavier bullet for the bigger critters like coyotes.


Your choice.  I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[Ladobe]

Having shot a lot of fox, coyote and bobcats over the years with all the 221 Fireballs I've had (including one 10" and two 12" Contender barrels), and with my 17M4's (one of them a 14" Contender barrel - never shot the 15" I just sold)... in my experience the 17M4 is considerably more decisive than the 221's on coyotes in both the pistol and rifle length barrels.   Hydrostatic shock makes up for the difference in bullet weight IMO.
 
 

[bobg]

   A few years ago i called Virgin Valley and ask them the same question. Their answer was for what i was going to shoot with it. Which was the same as butchen the 221 Fireball was the way to go. That is what i ordered and never regretted my decision.

[Ken ONeill]

I'd recommend a 10" .221 Fireball.

[butchen]

it looks like the Fireballs are in the lead with the .221 the most liked but I have a 500 S&W mag 12" how cool would it be to have a .17 10" or 12", from the largest to the smallest. But I do think the .221 may do a little better on the larger varmints.
 
 What do y'all think? I am open to hear what the pros and cons of each
 

[NebrHunter]

I have a custom 17 f.b. barrel, 13", It's a blast to shoot, no recoil, but loud.   I also have a custom 221 F.B., 12", full bull.  A little heavy for what it is.  Still no recoil. Both are in an encore.  Just something about the 17 F.B.. The 17 is very accurate.    get them both.

[butchen]

I have a custom 17 f.b. barrel, 13", It's a blast to shoot, no recoil, but loud.   I also have a custom 221 F.B., 12", full bull.  A little heavy for what it is.  Still no recoil. Both are in an encore.  Just something about the 17 F.B.. The 17 is very accurate.    get them both.

have wife so that is a nogo on "get them both" lol but I like the idea of a 12" full bull from MGM but which twist the xp-100 which the round was made for is 1 in 12" with a 8 3/8"barrel and the old 'tender was 1 in 14" with a 10" barrel? I think with a 10" bull and very light bullets I think I would go with a 1 in 12". What do you think.

[NebrHunter]

The barrel is not marked,but the cleaning rod says 1-12.  It shoots 50gr v-max and h335 very well..   mc

[Richard P]

My xp100 .221 is an early one. At 25yds it is pretty obvious that it prefers 45gr bullets over 50gr ones.