Author Topic: 2 domestic varmints of choice for food. (Read 5705 times)

Bugflipper · « **Reply #30 on:** July 30, 2011, 04:44:31 AM »

What Loyd wrote on post 20 is pretty well the way I feel. In just about every form of livestock there is a breed for a certain purpose. Generally people breed traits into them, chiefly for food yield, but also characteristics. For instance when a chicken house catches on fire and the cornish crosses are turned loose, most don't have enough sense to flee the fire. The ones that do take off to the lights of the emrgency vehicles and get squished in the road. There is very little chance of their survival being raised on a free range non fenced setup on a farm. Their instincts have just been bred out of them and they are pretty much worthless to make their own decisions.

In contrast the red jungle fowl http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/NDG/BRKRedJF.html can be let go on your place and will survive with no human contact whatsoever as long as there is a little bit of food, cover, water and the climate is favorable to what they need. They steer clear of predators, including people and get by pretty well. This contrast is similar in most animals that people keep. The wild hogs that make it on their own were once domestic, a pure meat production hog would probably have a tough time surviving on his own because he is too tame. Most likely heritage breeds are going to be more resilient than specialized breeds. Such as a longhorn compared to a holstein. I don't know a whole lot about cows, but I imagine a breed raised in the late 1800's would be more resistant to diseases and such, opposed to one that has been bred specifically to have tender meat. In sheep unless a shepherd protects wool sheep on open ground, the predators will get them. But an American blackbelly will kill coyotes and a mouflon wolves. So with every type I think it's breed specific on which has a better chance of survival with little or no interaction from people.

blind ear · « **Reply #31 on:** July 30, 2011, 04:48:22 AM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on July 30, 2011, 04:04:39 AM

I saw a bobcat near my mountain retreat. There must be more. So far the only thing that eat my chickens there was a bear. Did he ever make a bloody mess of that chicken coop.

For survival, the bobcats would serve as "food". They are easy to call in with a preadator call, If you live in bear country you best be set up for that contact as well. I don't live in bear country.

I have read the only thing easier to call than a bobcat is a fox. We have very few fox here so I guess that is why I never brought one in. Coyotes are real hard to call in here because of the pressure on them.

Anything that might eat your chickens or gunieas, you can eat it . ear

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #32 on:** July 30, 2011, 05:24:13 AM »

Took some easter eggers that are known to lay 3 eggs a week. Crossed them with rhode island reds know for 5 eggs a week. After 3 years of selective breeding we had chickens laying 5 to 6 eggs a week. The natural easter basket was incredible. We had different shades of green, blue, pink, brown and even one that laid bronze eggs. The bear wiped out three years of work in one night. We do plan to take those chickens out of his hide come bear season.

mannyrock · « **Reply #33 on:** July 30, 2011, 07:57:04 AM »

By the way, I'm just wondering. Has anyone ever actually eaten a gunea hen, raised outside? How do they taste?

Mannyrock

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #34 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:27:33 AM »

not as good as a chicken rasied to eat but compared to trying to eat a 2 year old laying chicken there great. Kind of got a gammier taste to them like a phesant but not quite as tender as pheasant. the ones we at we just tossed everything but the breasts.

Quote from: mannyrock on July 30, 2011, 07:57:04 AM

By the way, I'm just wondering. Has anyone ever actually eaten a gunea hen, raised outside? How do they taste?

Mannyrock

Gaz-52 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2011, 01:08:18 AM »

Hi , my vote would be for chickens and sheep. A dual purpose breed of chickens ,for eggs & meat eg. Rhode Is. Red . Sussex or similar breed with good foraging ability. The choice of breed of sheep would depend on your climate, but sheep can produce , wool & skins .fat for cooking and fuel for lamps and lubricants ,a high proportion of twin lambs and all this from an animal that is small enough to be easily slaughtered and dressed out with little fuss . Large volume refrigerators/ freezers are not necessary. I run a flock of Dorper/Damara meat sheep which have proven to be extremely hardy, fertile and easy to manage .
I would like to add a third animal into the mix , man's best friend the Dog is arguably the Most important addition . He will provide companionship , 24 hour security service for you and your livestock , and gladly act as garbage disposal unit for the kitchen kommandant .
Just my observations after thirty years on a 55acre "prickle farm" in Australia. Good living.
Gaz

9

gr8ful · « **Reply #36 on:** August 02, 2011, 11:47:05 AM »

Having visited a couple Third World S%$t Holes where the local inhabitants seem to be in a perpetual survival situation, the most common domestic animals are pigs, goats and chickens and ducks. All are easily tended and can live off wild forage. No matter what animals you raise a large portion of your time will be dedicated to guarding your flock, be it from predators or thieves, espesially in a survival situation.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2011, 03:51:01 AM »

Pigs have few other critters trying to kill them , man and bears mostly . A pack of youtes can destory a herd of goats .

mannyrock · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2011, 06:49:14 AM »

True, that coyotes can kill your goats. But, if you keep them in a fenced field, and add one huge billy goat and one big dog, then I've found that you have no problems.

Coyotes are cowards, and generally don't want a fight.

I guess a bigger problem down the road, would be cross breeds of coyotes with big dogs (coy-dogs).

ihookem · « **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2011, 07:10:49 AM »

I never raised pigs or cattle so I can't comment on them. I have raised chickens and are quite easy but don't think they will grow fast without feed. I don't see anything easier than rabbits. They require no feeding unless there is snow cover. I think being close to a big river is the ticket. Ya can eat carp, suckers and sheeps head anyway.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** August 03, 2011, 10:11:40 AM »

I just look at history and what expolrers did when they let hogs loose on islands for food on return trips.Hogs will eat anything from dead stuff to veggies to tree bark to roots even leaves . Not many critters will take on a hog and live to tell about it. I have had friends who raised rabbits , the food is good but they got sick easy when they got wet . Guess it would depend on where one lives . Dogs might be a source also in the worst of times.

mannyrock · « **Reply #41 on:** August 04, 2011, 04:47:56 PM »

Yes, as I mentioned in my earliest post, rabbits must be kept dry. So, that's why you build them a nice rabbit hutch and keep them in it. All they need is a hutch with a good roof, and then a separate box inside of it with a round hole in it for them to get in and out, and they do fine, even in the dead of winter. Other than throwing in the food and giving them clean water every day, they require NO care. Now, . . .compare that to taking care of a hog! :-)

gr8ful · « **Reply #42 on:** August 04, 2011, 05:32:19 PM »

Manny here in LA as recently as the 60's people ran free range hogs in the woods, they were marked for ownership by cutting a series of notches in thier ears. There are even still laws on the books against killing "marked" hogs. My dad tells me they were communally trapped in corral type traps to be harvested and tended and common practice if you caught a sow with piglets with someone elses mark to mark the pigs with the same mark as the sow and release them for your neighbor. These hogs required no care whatsoever other than trapping, castrating the boars, and cutting your ear mark, and butchering the ones you wanted to eat. Pork is also easily preserved by salting and smoking, and keeps without refridgeration(salted or smoked). goats and fowl are usually eaten in one or several meals before they go bad.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** August 05, 2011, 04:51:17 AM »

Manny, most know a hog is one of the fasest critters to revert back wild if allowed to. Some say it starts in less than two mos.
I think the expanding range of wild hogs supports this. I have seen an elec. fence placed about 4 inches above the ground surround large tracts of land where hogs were kept. Once they touched the wire with their snout they never tried again. One guy would turn it off after a couple weeks.
Rabbits in a box might be a target. A flock of free roaming chickens with a few roosters might put up a better fight and at least a few might live.

mannyrock · « **Reply #44 on:** August 05, 2011, 06:21:01 AM »

Its a survival situation guys. If your hogs are running free, then others will kill them right and left.
You really think another starving person is going to care about what type of notch you cut in their ears?

And, if you have free ranging hogs on your place, then you can forget about growing any crops. About as soon as you finish sewing them with your people-pulled plow, then those hogs will root them up and eat them.

But, having said that, if you like wild hogs, then that's fine with me. :-)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** August 05, 2011, 08:46:51 AM »

Better to scatter hogs and collect later than have rabbits taken out of a hutch.

Casull · « **Reply #46 on:** August 05, 2011, 10:13:32 AM »

Quote

Yes, as I mentioned in my earliest post, rabbits must be kept dry. So, that's why you build them a nice rabbit hutch and keep them in it. All they need is a hutch with a good roof, and then a separate box inside of it with a round hole in it for them to get in and out, and they do fine, even in the dead of winter. Other than throwing in the food and giving them clean water every day, they require NO care. Now, . . .compare that to taking care of a hog! :-)

Ok, you have to house, feed and water rabbits. So, what more is there to taking care of a hog?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #47 on:** August 05, 2011, 10:24:23 AM »

Can ya smoke a rabbit and eat it a 6 mos later ? Better to hide smoked hams than a hutch full of rabbits

And rabbits don't lay eggs , a renewable food supply . Like they say a chicken has an intrest in your meal when you eat eggs and a rabbit would have to be commited to the meal.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #48 on:** August 06, 2011, 04:03:10 AM »

A friend of mine runs free range hogs and cows. To keep his hogs tame he runs through there every day on his way to the logging woods and throws them a bowl of scraps from dinner the night before. 100 or so hogs come running when they hear his truck. He always throws it in the coral pen which is open. usually only 1 or 2 hogs actually get the little bit of food. But they make a bee line for the catch pen like clockwork. Besides baiting them every day he doesn't feed them. His place is a mix of field and a lot of woods. They find what they need to get by. He does have to feed the cows in the winter.

briarpatch · « **Reply #49 on:** August 06, 2011, 06:22:30 AM »

Free range is fine on a continient with few people or with laws that can be enforced.
If you dump your hog, dog, goat, sheep, chicken etc. out during a survival situation and expect to go get it all fat and sassy and ready for the butcher. You will fail with the first wave.
All cultures that have livestock for their survival and food must stay with them and bring them in at night, even into the home sometime to protect them.
With the tribes of Africa and other countries that do it, it has evolved into a communal affair because of the difficulty in maintaining the heads.
To truly survive one must lay his food and medicine bye. Have it ready to eat and boxed to last. There is no reason today not to have all that is needed in stock.
Animals would be a hindrance if you had to rely on them. It would consume most of your time in upkeep.
Forget them and put your energy and money into the long term storage that is now available. If you want fresh meat go get your neighbors free range hogs and cows after he expires.

blind ear · « **Reply #50 on:** August 06, 2011, 09:48:28 AM »

Quote from: briarpatch on August 06, 2011, 06:22:30 AM

To truly survive one must lay his food and medicine bye. Have it ready to eat and boxed to last. There is no reason today not to have all that is needed in stock.
Animals would be a hindrance if you had to rely on them. It would consume most of your time in upkeep.
Forget them and put your energy and money into the long term storage that is now available. If you want fresh meat go get your neighbors free range hogs and cows after he expires.

I thought that provideing ones own food, clothing and shelter would be the primary industries in a situation where the "two best varmits to raise" would be of concern. I thought of it as raising your own food would be the main industry going for everyone still standing. The "commerse of industry" so that you occupy your time in "product manufactureing" would not be in play at this time so I assumed. Amimal and plant care would be a very worthwhile and likely the only reasonable use of your time, so I assumed. ear

gr8ful · « **Reply #51 on:** August 06, 2011, 11:53:16 AM »

My post about free ranging hogs was mearly to say that hogs require little to no care. as I said in an earlier post a great deal of time will have to be devoted to guarding the flock, hogs would have to be guarded and brought in at night, just like any other livestock. The best thing to do would be to build a strong tribe to protect what you have, then go raid the livestock and resources of all the "go it alone" types. just sayin'

briarpatch · « **Reply #52 on:** August 06, 2011, 01:45:55 PM »

It depends on what type of shtf crises. If it is like the depression you could still raise stock if you had the land, help and sufficent feed.
the men had to travel for work and this took them away from the home so a lot of the stock had to be slaughterd and put up or sold. some kept the family cow for the dairy products.
We can today set down with those that went through the depression and talk to them about it and what worked.
My father in law worked for Harris clay company during the depression. He fired their boilers. He worked 12 hours a day 7 days a week for 7 years and never missed a day.
If he had he would have been fired.
He walked from where he lived on Henson creek to the head of the mountain about 3 miles and caught a ride with a man that also worked there.
There was no time to care for anything. He did not see the light of day at his home. What he did was survival. My Mother in law could care for the cow and barter the dariry items along with blankets she sewed for things they needed.
What was most important to them was the canned goods they put up each year. They canned every bean grown and kept every tater dug. Nothing was wasted. It would have been hard to raise stock. Could not care for them and three small children.

I guess we have to prepare for the worst if we are going to prepare. When you look at scene from the civil war, ww1 and ww2 the first thing I notice is all the dead animals. They don’t survive well. People have other worries than ole bessy. It seems the ones that do the best are the ones that have food laid bye in their cellars and are able to keep their heads down. Lay low in other words.
I have talked with my dad about ww2 Germany before. He is still alive and we are going on a cruise in 4 weeks. I am going to talk to him a bout how the people made it. And who made it the best. What they did. I may get him on the phone tonight.
Lets hope we don’t a shtf but if we do I hope we get it right.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #53 on:** August 08, 2011, 02:28:56 AM »

One might have to survive losing a job long term or other times than a shtf . Free range means the critter can look after itself. It could be in a fenced field not allowed to walk over 2 counties . The fact a hog can live off the land only shows its ablity to adapt to food on hand. Chickens aren't called yard birds for nothing. The idea of stored food is good until it gets old . Its a big investment for many. Dead critters after a battle , of course abd people also. But there are many not near the battle. The fact is living thru a depression or natural disaster will be different than living thru. a war or civil disturbance. Although New Oleanes was allowed to degrade into a third world enviroment every other place in America that faced similar fate pulled thru. and rebuilt in a matter of a few years . Leadership was the key , N. O. looked and waited for a hand out while most other places just picked up and rebuilt. So if you reside with folks like were in N.O.better store for really long term and lay in a stock pile og ammo. Maybe hardy critters should have been used instead of free range critters.

briarpatch · « **Reply #54 on:** August 08, 2011, 04:17:17 AM »

Dead on Shootall, that covers it pretty well.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #55 on:** August 08, 2011, 07:30:50 AM »

Liked your input SHOOTALL. Most of the time the majority of us are narrow minded and have our own idea of how things could, or ARE going to be. The truth of the matter is things could be very mild or very adverse. Brings the old adage to mind, prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #56 on:** August 08, 2011, 08:48:15 AM »

I know farmers who raked leaves for cows in lean times , they don't put on weight but they live.

WD45 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 10, 2011, 09:04:42 AM »

as far as leaves go, we would cut down green box elder for the cows to eat the leaves and then use the wood for fire wood. They are a junk tree that grow like weeds. Not the best fire wood but it burns. Hoggs will eat dang near anything and breed like rabbits. Never got any becon off a rabbit though !!!!! Besides chickens we had ducks when I was young. Never had to pay much attention to the ducks. They stayed close to the pond and if felt threatened took to the water. chickens had to be watched like the proverbial hawk...
What ever ya get ya better get it while the gettin is good...

Casull · « **Reply #58 on:** August 10, 2011, 12:56:15 PM »

Never ate goat. Sheep and rabbit aren't bad. BUT, I'll take the bacon and eggs (and ham, fried chicken, pork chops, etc).

hillbill · « **Reply #59 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Casull on August 10, 2011, 12:56:15 PM

Never ate goat. Sheep and rabbit aren't bad. BUT, I'll take the bacon and eggs (and ham, fried chicken, pork chops, etc).

ive eaten goat a few times and love it.a young fat wether, quartered and smoked is very hard to beat.goat chops lightly grilled over hickory coals are incredible.