Author Topic: Most efficient deer cartridge in a contender carbine? (Read 4855 times)

pastorp · « **on:** June 30, 2011, 05:17:02 AM »

What's your opinion? What's the most efficient cartridge capable of killing deer that will work in a original contender carbine?

I know a 22lr will work, but i'm talking a deer cartridge.

I'm thinking maybe 7tcu.

Regaurds,

no guns here · « **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2011, 05:24:22 AM »

Define efficient... most one-shot kills, all-around round for distance and size, least powder for cartridge or what?

NGH

luckydawg13 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2011, 06:14:29 AM »

45/70

pastorp · « **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2011, 06:20:09 AM »

Efficient= most preformance for the cost of powder, etc. But still must do a good job of killing deer.

enough to get the job done but not a lot of wasted power. That's what it means to me, what does it mean to you?

I hardley think 45/70 would qualify, but i assume you were jokeing. IMO the 45/70 is way more than anyone needs to kill a deer............But opinions varry.

regards,

luckydawg13 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:34:35 AM »

Efficient to me is dead right there can i kill a deer with a 22 yes would i use it if i had too OK for me minimum out to 75 yards
a 357mag but i have a 44 so i would use that first in a tender but i live in Illinois and have to use a straight walled case
so i use a 454 in in encore

Bugflipper · « **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:10:54 AM »

I never could get good results with the 7 tcu except with one bullet. I figured that since the 7mm rem mag is the most popular in that diameter that 7mm bullets might be a little thick jacketed. Back then I don't think they had all of these super bullets. My complaint was not enough expansion, just 2 leaky holes. Sierra has a single shot pistol bullet and it was the only one I found that would expand descent. But even then, not much velocity, so nothing special, just a through and through and he runs 75-100 yards on a heart shot.

My vote would be for the 6.8. Quite a bit more velocity for a good wound channel and destruction of the heart. They run about 25-40 yards on me with a 115 bulk rem core lokt. Not a whole lot of powder. And more accurate than the 7tcu. Heck it's more accurate than my 6 tcu as well.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:35:05 AM »

I had and shot allot of them and finally decided on the 7/30 waters. I had it for both the 14" and 21" barrels and at all ranges it worked wonderfully.

I used the 130gr speer from the 14" for a couple deer out to just over 100 yards. I also tried the X bulllets in 120 and 140. I liked the 140 from the carbine as i got it moving a bit faster.

The little TCU was a good shooter but lacks the powder capacity for good velocities at med and long hunting distances. Even the reshapen 30-30 case of the waters isnt that spacious. But it makes effieient use of what it has and acheives good balistics for some reasonably long shots.

Some of the cartridages built on the 444 case are also excellent candidates for this.

CW

Ladobe · « **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2011, 08:36:11 AM »

Not enough information was given for an easy answer pard.

Quote from: pastorp on June 30, 2011, 06:20:09 AM

Efficient= most performance for the cost of powder, etc. But still must do a good job of killing deer. enough to get the job done but not a lot of wasted power. That's what it means to me, what does it mean to you?

efficient: achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense.

And IMO to achieve that depends on where you hunt. IOW, what's the most efficient at the sorter ranges in a whitetail woods and at up to hundreds of yards in the wide open spaces for western mulies is just not the same. So each scenario would have its own list of what's most efficient.

So a do all for "anywhere" and any circumstance would have to fall into the later list. There are several factory or wildcat cartridges for the Contender that have the "power" to be very flat shooting and kill cleanly at the long ranges, but would still work fine up close.

IMO that's far more important than how much cost or effort the ammo requires.

FWIW -YMMV

L.

no guns here · « **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2011, 09:14:55 AM »

I guess I'd go with a 6.8 or something like that. Maybe a .300 Whisper. Should be good to 250-300 yards for deer. Small case, good ballistics, decent range.

NGH

martineta · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2011, 10:42:45 AM »

300 whisper. My favorite caliber.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2011, 11:57:12 AM »

To me, the most efficient is the 7mm Bullberry. It's the 30-30 necked down to 7mm, which is the 7mm Int'l Rimmed. You then trim the unnecessarily long neck back to give a case length of 1.75". It's basically a more efficient version of the Waters and generally comes 75 fps of it all else being equal.

You can also begin with a 7mm US case and simply fireform it in a 7BB chamber.

The load I used for years in my 20" barrel was 32 grains H335 under the 130 grain Sierra SSP for 2505 fps. I am now using the C-T 140 grain BST as basically the same speed. A 120 will easily do 2650 fps.

Case life is incredible, and trimming with this cartridge is an absolute rarity.

I have one batch of brass that has seen 24 firings and is still going strong with snug primer pockets and good neck tension despite never having been annealed.

If there's ever been a gun that felt like a member of the family to me, I'd have to say this 7mm BB would be it.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:49:35 PM »

SweetWyominghome,

AWESOME PICTURES!!!!!!!!

CW

valvesinmyhead · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:02:21 PM »

My vote would be for the 6.8 as well. Mine is a 26" barrel but I would like to cut it down to 20". 110gr V-Max through both lungs has worked six times with no tracking or recoil.

Exit wound front shoulder.

David D. · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:46:08 PM »

I have two that are efficient for me. I do know my 20"OTT in 6.5JDJ Contender barrel will efficiently drop a deer at over 300yds. Based on what I have killed with my 14" 30-30IMP. I do like and feel the 30-30IMP. would efficiently do the same. But if one isn't efficient at shooting 300yds. there are no cartridges going to be efficient for him. After looking at Bobby's pic I would have to agree the 7MM BB is efficient. Both my 14" 6.5JDJ and 30-30IMP. are efficient out to 150yds., but after that I am not!

243dave · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2011, 02:51:27 PM »

If I was getting a efficient contender carbine it would be a 6.8spc or a 30-30.

alan in ga · « **Reply #15 on:** July 01, 2011, 04:49:44 AM »

30/30 Winchester
30/30 Ackley Improved
.357 Maximum
.35 Rem.
.........all great deer rounds. I'm sure the 7mm's are good too but I've been happy with these.

Ladobe · « **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:37:04 AM »

Lots of suggestions that'll get it done killing deer, but since you asked for an original factory Contender carbine barrel and not a rechamber or a custom barrel (that would be a bull barrel and not a true carbine barrel anyway)... I'll pick TC's old 21" 7X30 Waters tapered carbine barrels. Good for all ranges, flatter shooting than many, easy to load for with cheap dies, easy brass and lots of bullet choices, and plenty of commercial ammo available if you don't want to reload that can be bought almost anywhere.

L.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2011, 10:30:55 AM »

Lately I'm kind of in love with the 357 magnum.

It's certainly an efficient cartridge. I don't know if it's the most efficient round in the world, but you get a bunch of rounds per pound of powder and if you cast you get a great many projos per pound of lead. You also get impressive case life compared to any of the botle necked cartridges. If you keep your shots to close range it's effective. That being it's only real shortcoming as a hunting carbine round. It's a darned powerful handgun round, but it's still a handgun round and shouldn't be asked to kill game at distances beyond what a pistol round will do.

357 also has the advantage of being available as loaded ammo wherever ammo is sold. We all know the advantages of hand loading, but there is something to be said for a round you can pick up a box of on your way to the range or wherever. It's not a bad way to buy brass either. Name brand, USA made reloadable brass, supplied full. The height of convenience.

shot1 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2011, 01:43:34 PM »

Factory barrel would have to be the good old 30-30 Winchester. Get a 125 Nosler ballistic tip going 2500 to 2600 fps and it hammers deer and it is so accurate you could shoot them through the eye if you wanted to.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2011, 02:28:31 PM »

Sir, some of these calibers listed are really cool. That 7mm BB was a new one on me, and I was impressed. If you reload, one of these may be for you, but if you do not, then the .35 Rem is a great contender cartridge. I've shot a few with it in my Super 14, and the Marlin 336. They fall right down, the wide nose displaces plenty of vitals, and the moderate velocity has been pleasantly suprisingly easy on meat!

pastorp · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:55:22 AM »

Thanks guys for all the opinions & ideas..

After a break of several years from the contender siene. I have bought a few frames and 2 carbine barrels again. I have a 7-30waters & a 223barrel. Think I am going to just stay with the waters.

I have brass, bullets and everything I need to start shooting it except a stockset.

Regards,

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** July 03, 2011, 10:50:16 AM »

30-30 can't be beat. I've killed several Caribou with my Contender in 30-30. Easy to find ammo for if your ammo gets lost or forgotten. If you reload it can easily be brought up to some respectable ballistics.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #22 on:** July 03, 2011, 11:52:24 AM »

Good point Sourdough. Didnt think about travel. Every "mom and pop" hardware store out there will have a box of those, and one in '06!

alan in ga · « **Reply #23 on:** July 03, 2011, 12:35:15 PM »

The 30/30 Winchester is one very good cartridge. I've purchased and built a LOT big game rifles in many chamberings. I have enjoyed lever, bolt, and single shot action rifles in 30/30 Win [and the Ackley Improved versions] for deer hunting as much as any other rifle. The round is not any "older" than the day it came out! : )
If anything rounds only get 'better' as newer and better suited bullets and powders are developed.
It is one great round.

Dezynco · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2011, 04:43:35 PM »

If you handload, the 375 Winchester does it for me! Factory ammo is almost non-existent and very expensive! However, it's perfectly capable of 300 yard shots with 200 grain bullet @ 2400+fps, or can be loaded with a 265 grain lead slug for "thinning the brush" on the way to a 100 yard shot. It will stop any critter in North America, and a few that might be on some other continents, maybe even some other planets! In a pinch, you can "blow out" a 30-30 case to use as a 375.

Like I said, it's fantanstic if you are a handloader. I've had really good luck with mine, and it's an excellent shooter capable of 1" groups if I don't flinch!

If you don't handload, then the old 30-30 can't be beat! Hard to find one that doesn't shoot well, and it's capable of taking anything on this continent as long as you keep your shots reasonable. Ammo is cheap and you can find it ANYWHERE!

If you handload, the 30-30 is capable of amazing balistics, similar to low-end 308 or 30-06 performance, expecially in the 30-30 AI. You can use factory 30-30's in the AI if your in a bind.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #25 on:** July 04, 2011, 05:20:52 PM »

Efficient- Horse power to recoil factor for deer under 75 yards - 357 Mag
For all north american game out to 150 yards - 30-30.
300 whisper would be good too. Like 30-30 special.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:16:25 AM »

Quote from: Dezynco on July 04, 2011, 04:43:35 PM

If you handload, the 375 Winchester does it for me! Factory ammo is almost non-existent and very expensive! However, it's perfectly capable of 300 yard shots with 200 grain bullet @ 2400+fps, or can be loaded with a 265 grain lead slug for "thinning the brush" on the way to a 100 yard shot. It will stop any critter in North America, and a few that might be on some other continents, maybe even some other planets! In a pinch, you can "blow out" a 30-30 case to use as a 375.

Like I said, it's fantanstic if you are a handloader. I've had really good luck with mine, and it's an excellent shooter capable of 1" groups if I don't flinch!

If you don't handload, then the old 30-30 can't be beat! Hard to find one that doesn't shoot well, and it's capable of taking anything on this continent as long as you keep your shots reasonable. Ammo is cheap and you can find it ANYWHERE!

If you handload, the 30-30 is capable of amazing balistics, similar to low-end 308 or 30-06 performance, expecially in the 30-30 AI. You can use factory 30-30's in the AI if your in a bind.

I gotta say i love the 375 Win as well and a good efficent game killer it is. With in its operating range. But it is not and never will be a 300 yard deer cartridge. Also 2400 fps??? What are you loading in that thing!!! 2400fps is over 200fps above top loadings!! Starting at 2200fps Energy is right at 1000fp at two hundred yards with a good ( sanely loaded)handload. The bullets are simply too short for good SD. It takes a good SD to retain good velocity. A 200 .375 is barely two calibers long, simply not a long range projectile. The 250 is better, but the case lacks capacity to have HP to reach enough terminal velocity.

Again, I love the caliber, I load mine with 220gr Speers at almost 2100fps and they work great. Back when the 444 wild cats came to be guys stuck a .375 pill in one and thought that they had a great dangerious game caliber from a 14" Contender. Ballistics barely beat our 375 Wins, but the gun rags touted it as best for dangerous game. I said and still say, Horse hocky!! Sure it worked, at one time the world record Grizzly was killed
with a single shot 22 fired by a little indian girl too. Dosen't make the 22 a bear gun.

CW

Iowa Fox · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2011, 11:55:39 AM »

I'm not sure what topography you will be shooting in in SE Alaska. In Iowa deer are to us what hogs are to Texans. Lots of cull tags get issued every year to protect the crops in some of the heavily infested areas. In this state you can drive 50 miles and things change to the point you are going to want to pin a different barrel on your frame.

I have used the 44mag-357max-and the 375Win just to name a few. I think the 357max gets used more than the others. While most are original factory barrels my max is a 20" Bullberry with 4x compact optics, TC did offer it in a 21" carbine barrel . I use a 215 grain cast bullet in the max.

Thats the beauty of the TC platform, lots of good factory and aftermarket barrels to match just about every situation I can think of.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2011, 04:06:50 PM »

Gotta give props to the cartridge, but imo the 35rem is better at the job than the 30-30win, all else being equal. Just like the wide nose of those 200gr sp's. Definitely prefer it on hogs over the 30-30 too.

Dezynco · « **Reply #29 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:34:57 AM »

Quote

But it is not and never will be a 300 yard deer cartridge. Also 2400 fps??? What are you loading in that thing!!! 2400fps is over 200fps above top loadings!!

OK lets say keep it inside of 300 yards, but trust me, it will get there with plenty of room to spare. I've done it......

I get my load data from the book, or from Hodgdon's website:
200 gr. Sierra JFP with 38gr H4198 = 2480fps from a 24" barrel (mine has a 24" barrel). I backed off a bit and clocked mine at an average 2400fps.

According to the Lee book:
40gr of AA1680 will deliver 2512fps, but that's a pretty stiff load!

Granted these are maximum charges, and I don't pound my rifle with these loads all the time. I started with the minimum charge and slowly worked up to maximum. I only load a few for hunting. Most of the time I use a 265gr cast lead bullet at about 1800fps.

Let's just say that the 375 Win. is pretty underrated! When it was introduced back in 1978, it just hit the market at the wrong time.