Author Topic: Finally got shooting today with 223 (Read 1477 times)

the lone gunman · « **on:** June 19, 2011, 10:29:17 PM »

I wanted to test 3 different loads for point of impact with my H&R 223 . Mine has heavy barrel and 1:12 twist. I had let my Cousin use it for deer last season and had it sighted for Remmy 55 psp. I shot off the hood of my Jeep at 100yds. Im more than happy to see they all hit close to same point. Clearly my 1-12 twist prefers the 45gr pills. I have yet to get out for groundhogs with it but Im betting those 45gr winchesters at 3600 fps should make some pink mist. The circles in my targets are 2 1/4 inches in diameter. The 45s did 3/4 inch 3 shot.

Ill buy that.

XD40SC · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2011, 12:44:11 AM »

I found the same for my .223. It does ok with bullets in the 50ish weights, but does best with 45gr. bullets.

Spanky · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2011, 10:46:09 AM »

My old 12 twist 223 shot 45gr. bullets the best. I got a new 9 twist so I can shoot heavier bullets. I'm planning on trying 60gr. Nosler partitions for deer this season.

Spanky

godale · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2011, 03:55:00 PM »

same with me i really wanted to use 55 grain but after trying different brands i ended up sticking with 45 grain winny white box

petemi · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:34:26 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on June 20, 2011, 10:46:09 AM

My old 12 twist 223 shot 45gr. bullets the best. I got a new 9 twist so I can shoot heavier bullets. I'm planning on trying 60gr. Nosler partitions for deer this season.

Spanky

Spanky, not meaning to be rude or sarcastic, but with all the rifles you own, why would you choose the .223 for deer? Perhaps your deer are a lot smaller than ours. I know guys claim it turns the heart/lung area to jelly. What happens if you hit the shoulder? Even though the .30-30 has killed more than a mllion deer, mine stay in the rack during deer season. The smallest calibers I use are 7mm-08, and .308, but prefer the bigger stuff from .38-55 to .500 running about 2 grand. They take a whitetail off his feet and he seldom if ever gets up. I'm good to go with the .45-70 to 300 yards, which is the maximum I can see from any given hunting location on my property. (I don't hunt deer away from home because I know who's hunting where, and I have as many deer as anywhere else.)

Pete

Spanky · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2011, 05:14:29 PM »

Quote from: petemi on June 23, 2011, 04:34:26 AM

Quote from: Spanky on June 20, 2011, 10:46:09 AM
My old 12 twist 223 shot 45gr. bullets the best. I got a new 9 twist so I can shoot heavier bullets. I'm planning on trying 60gr. Nosler partitions for deer this season.

Spanky

Spanky, not meaning to be rude or sarcastic, but with all the rifles you own, why would you choose the .223 for deer? Perhaps your deer are a lot smaller than ours. I know guys claim it turns the heart/lung area to jelly. What happens if you hit the shoulder? Even though the .30-30 has killed more than a mllion deer, mine stay in the rack during deer season. The smallest calibers I use are 7mm-08, and .308, but prefer the bigger stuff from .38-55 to .500 running about 2 grand. They take a whitetail off his feet and he seldom if ever gets up. I'm good to go with the .45-70 to 300 yards, which is the maximum I can see from any given hunting location on my property. (I don't hunt deer away from home because I know who's hunting where, and I have as many deer as anywhere else.)

Pete

I wouldn't use it as my primary deer rifle. I'm probably gonna use the Maxi or my 500 this year. If I get a doe permit this year I'll use the 223 but only if the conditions are perfect and the shot is perfect. I definitely wouldn't take a risky or long range shot with it. I understand what you're saying about hitting the shoulder and I agree with you 100%... I wouldn't take a shoulder shot. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever shot one in the shoulder. I like to shoot them through the lungs or in the neck depending on the situation.

Spanky

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2011, 04:56:55 PM »

I load 55 gr Matchkings for my 1:9 twist as a sub 150 yard deer load. Of course the deer here in Eastern NC tend to be rather puny...

Squib · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2011, 05:26:04 PM »

going by caliber alone is stupid, bc, sc, bullet "profile" in relation to point/piercing- frontal area- jacket construction, fmj-jhp-jsp-etc... quit bagging on caliber people, it's just a diameter, nothing more! field conditions, load quality, barrel issues, the man behind the trigger, and the individual animal make a lot more difference than .224 vs .458 (that's .234 difference, less than a quarter inch and .50 is the limit for most LEGAL small arms anyways, not a huge diameter).

good shooters botch a lot less than random guys with "real" calibers, REAL cartridges, and REAL war-stories (aren't they all real, like the ones about a big magnum "flipping-over a deer" and such).

Squib · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2011, 05:28:42 PM »

ps spanky is a former marine so that means that he had to shoot iron sights, with a beat up gov-issued m-16, crappy ammo gov-issued, and at 500yds max to qualify as a rifleman. that means other marines and benchrest shooters can talk ****, everyone else needs to shut up.

burn

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2011, 05:39:46 PM »

Sorry, typo, Gameking, not matchking. Specificlly the 55 gr Gameking SPBT.

Dinny · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:02:23 PM »

Quote from: Squib on June 26, 2011, 05:28:42 PM

ps spanky is a former marine so that means that he had to shoot iron sights, with a beat up gov-issued m-16, crappy ammo gov-issued, and at 500yds max to qualify as a rifleman. that means other marines and benchrest shooters can talk ****, everyone else needs to shut up.
burn

Shooting is an acquired skill that perishes without practice. I don't care if you or Spanky are former Marine snipers trained by Gunny Hathcock himself. If life gets in the way of practice then anyone will lose this skill, former Marine or not.

Perhaps the Marines taught you something about respect to others. Best not to forget that, even here.

Proud and cocky are understandable, disrespect is not!

Thanks, Dinny

Spanky · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:28:34 PM »

I do alot of shooting to stay sharp. Instead of target shooting I like to "stump shoot." I pick random targets in the woods (pine cones, dirt clumps, chipmunks, etc) and take one well aimed shot. If I miss that's it... I don't take another shot at that target. If I miss I try to focus on what I did wrong and correct the mistake when I make my next shot.
As far as shooting in the military... I did become a better shooter while I was in the service but the old saying still holds true..."If you don't use it you lose it" Lucky for me I have alot of opportunities to get out and send lead downrange.

Spanky

Squib · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:40:03 PM »

I believe that I was making PRACTICE AND SKILL a priority, not blind faith in a magical decimal/fraction of an inch. military service wasn't really an issue, just that he has the credentials from his service time. mine wasn't brought up, and I DO NOT have the skill to do man sized targets at 500 anymore.... especially not iron sights. I know that it can be done with .223 quite easily with a crap gun, crap ammo, prone w/ no rest of any kind, timed 10 shots, crosswinds, etcetera, by semi-trained kids all year long every year (recruits!) .... without a "big caliber" or "big cartridge" or a fancy gun, or a rest of any kind. I just really hate when people who never really reached out with competence bash "small" calibers/cartridges. maybe .223 won't do the job really well at 500yds, but it'll sure get there nice and accurately and it's gonna get in that flesh and mess it up. messed up flesh in the upper spine, neck, brain, heart, lungs, liver... equal death quickly.... when did that change?!

so what if 7.62 does better, what's better than dead? how about 45-70? why not an 8 ga shotgun up close to be sure.... it never ends.

petemi · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:48:25 AM »

I served in the Navy for seven years, 3 of which were in Weapons Department, and a year of that in Air Ordnance. The Armory was on the other side of my office wall and a 500 yard range was across the street. I shot something every day; shotgun with clays, M1, BAR, .22s, Thompsons, "Grease" guns, .45s, and 38s (the pilots survival gun at the time), plus my own personal weapons. I shot more than any ten Marines going through Boot Camp.

I believe the military adopted the small caliber for logistics reasons. They could move and carry more ammo than the .308 or .30-06, plus the lower cost. In addition, a wounded man takes at least 3 enemy out of battle, while a dead man takes out only one. Were I in a combat situation, I'd want a .308. (Getting it would be a diffferent story.)

I don't allow "deer hunters" to use .22 cal. rifles on my property, and here's why. Most of them buy a rifle, sight it in at 100 yards, and it stands in a closet 363 days a year. A box of ammo lasts them 20 years. They drag it out one weekend a year so they can put on their orange hat, go to camp, and drink and play poker with the boys. The odds are they never get to make a shot, and if they luck out, it is usually misplaced. They are not riflemen or hunters. In the first few years I owned this farm I spent more nights than I care to remember walking around the woods with a flashlight looking for blood. The larger calibers leave an exit wound, hence more blood. I have a handful of friends that I allow to use anything they want because they are riflemen, experienced and ethical hunters. Most of the folks on these forums fit in that category simply because if they didn't, they wouldn't take the time to be here.

Pete

the lone gunman · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2011, 10:48:30 AM »

I started this thread talking about accuracy of the 45 gr bullet in my rifle. Why does all posts on 223s ALWAYS turn into a pissing match.

james · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2011, 11:09:15 AM »

I just got back from a p-dog and rock chuck shoot in MT. My Rem 700 and 788 with sporter wt barrels did well with Rem cl 55 gr sp and Sierra 50 gr hps. I don't get to shoot much around home at long range so the prairie dogs in the wind are good practice for me for antelope hunting. Before the wind kicked up, the 788 would clover leaf the 50 gr sie with a moderate load of IMR 4198. My bulk 55gr core loks in front of Varget would penetrate a quarter inch plate steel at 340 yards but were a little less accurate than the Sierras. They would shoot to a minute of prairie dog out to 300 yards.

Dinny · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2011, 11:50:06 AM »

Quote from: the lone gunman on June 27, 2011, 10:48:30 AM

I started this thread talking about accuracy of the 45 gr bullet in my rifle. Why does all posts on 223s ALWAYS turn into a pissing match.

The 45gr shoots good in the 1:12" barrels, I highly recommend it!

Thanks, Dinny

Squib · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2011, 06:22:21 PM »

sorry, I was grumpy the other day?

I felt that spanky got some flak for using a .223 when he has the time in to use it well, I thought it was disrespectful to him to assume he'd make a sloppy enough shot he'd need a bloodtrail, as he's done some shooting in his day. I understand things happen in the field, but I'd never fault a bullet based on diameter, or a shooter for going "slim". I also meant to point out that benchrest shooters and LOTS of military personel use .223/5.56 for rediculous shots using iron sights (so it is accurate, highly) - it turned into me being a jerk...

Dinny · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2011, 06:28:52 PM »

Don't sweat the small stuff, we all have those days sometimes.

Taking responsibility for our own actions is a commendable trait. Good on ya!

Be well,

Dinny

Spanky · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2011, 10:52:59 PM »

Quote from: Squib on June 28, 2011, 06:22:21 PM

sorry, I was grumpy the other day?

I felt that spanky got some flak for using a .223 when he has the time in to use it well, I thought it was disrespectful to him to assume he'd make a sloppy enough shot he'd need a bloodtrail, as he's done some shooting in his day. I understand things happen in the field, but I'd never fault a bullet based on diameter, or a shooter for going "slim". I also meant to point out that benchrest shooters and LOTS of military personel use .223/5.56 for rediculous shots using iron sights (so it is accurate, highly) - it turned into me being a jerk...

Thanks for watching my 6 Squib... us Jarheads gotta stick together.

I didn't have any problem with what Pete said, it was a fair question and I understand where he's coming from. I have alot of respect for Pete and his opinion and his point about the shoulder shot is a valid one. A shoulder shot on a deer with a 223 is definitely a no-no and I wouldn't try it but for heart/lung shots it'll put 'em down just as fast as a 300 mag.
That being said... I agree with Pete's "big and slow" approach too. A big, heavy bullet going at slower velocity will penetrate for days and knock a deer right off it's feet. I shot my buck last year with my 44 mag with 240 gr. soft point ammo. The shot hit him like a dumptruck and he only made it about 20 feet before he went face first into the ground. I could only imagine what a 500 gr. bullet out of a 45-70 would do.

In the end though... the most important thing is shot placement. With the small bores there is NO room for error.

Spanky

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2011, 02:58:31 AM »

Spanky, talk about big and slow, a few years ago I shot a nice big 6 point with the .45-70 at about 60 yards. I took a neck shot with a 350 gr. factory bullet at about 1600 which dropped him where he stood. I wasn't paying close enough attention, and the bullet passed thru hitting a doe behind him in the rear spine knocking her back wheels out and passed through her too. The doe took a second shot.

Pete

gcrank1 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2011, 06:23:41 AM »

Dang, ya had me startin' to worry Pete!, Ya said 'talk about big and slow' and......I thought ya were referrin to me!

Squib · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:38:35 PM »

spanky, my eyes are crap due to a bomb blast and my body ain't what it used to be so my conditioning and HEART RATE suck (my pulse throws the duplex around in the scope), I am NOT good enough to use a .223 with confidence on a deer.... but more power to you. if you got the skill, show off. I think a .223 is more ethical than a bow! just for argument sake I am not a fan of shoulder shots period.... I made the mistake of hitting a shoulder on the exit side this year and it was a mess

Squib · « **Reply #23 on:** June 30, 2011, 07:44:09 PM »

I do plan on acquiring and using a .243 this year though! (HYPROCRITE ALERT!!!) I am wanting to try some sub-sonic loads I've found with 100gr bullets to drop does without spooking bucks (I want to put one or two down as bait basically, and I want the food!), save the "zipper" rounds for a big-boy.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2011, 04:01:05 AM »

FWIW, wouldnt a .308 (or any .30cal.) sub-sonic be better? Use a 30-30 150gr. bullet (lighter jacket for slower speed expansion) for those and a full load after.
Sorry about your troubles; glad you made it back!