Author Topic: Model 7 receiver crack (Read 3131 times)

fastchicken · « **on:** June 14, 2011, 03:03:04 PM »

I sent my Mod 7 in to Rem to check what looked like a hairline crack in the receiver, from the recoil lug back to where the end of barrel is threaded in. They said the chamber showed signs of over pressure loads and the chamber was "heat tested", whatever that means, but couldn't [ or wouldn't] tell me how they test the action or come to the conclusion it was over pressure loads. The only signs of over pressure I have ever had were ejector imprints on the case head, and I haven't had many of those.
They assured me the receiver can crack without any other damage, but that just seems odd to me. I would at least think that the bolt lugs would've been battered or something. Kind of like saying you cracked an engine block by throwing a rod, but not throwing a rod. It's had the crack since before I ever started hand loading, but until I took some 600 grit to it I always thought it was just some light pitting. Anyway being out of warranty, they said I'm SOL and for $291 they'll send me a new barreled action

I also get to pull my 100+ loads and drop em back a little.
Anyone else experience anything similar?

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2011, 03:58:52 PM »

They should've given you a new receiver.

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:09:00 PM »

Who shoots reloads? Notttttttttt me. Anybody else?

parkergunshop · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:21:35 PM »

Fastchicken,

The receiver and bolt lugs are harder than the steel used for the barrels., the barrel will expand more than the receiver without cracking. Did you notice any problems resizing brass fired in this rifle? Any obvious case head expansion to one side or another in fired cases. The crack is almost inline with the front trigger guard screw hole the weakest point in the front receiver ring.

I have seen the top of the receiver ring blown off of a Model 70 Winchester, due to impure steel used during the manufacture.

fastchicken · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:44:26 PM »

I have not had any problems resizing and I've had 7-8 loads on my brass with no head separation or measurable expansion. The brass does look to expand more to one side than the other, but that is above the case head, and my 270 does the same thing, it looks more like the chamber was just reamed a .0001 or so more to one side.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** June 15, 2011, 02:41:21 AM »

tell them to just send it back and your 13 year old son will use it as is until it blows up in his face and the next call you get will be from your lawyer.

fastchicken · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2011, 05:02:51 PM »

Also, two questions I can't get answered are, is it actually a crack or just deep pitting, and if it is in fact a crack was it actually caused by over pressure loads. The "tech" would only keep proving he could read by reciting the notes made by the person who checked out the action. The notes never said whether it was a crack or not, just that the chamber showed signs of over pressure loads. And they never said it was not safe to shoot.

fastchicken · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2011, 06:34:45 AM »

Well, today the rep I spoke to said it was cracked but couldn't say it was actually over pressure loads that caused it [their way of not admitting it was defective]. If it had been over pressure loads, they were all factory loads because that mark had been there for years.
Oh well, and the first rep I spoke with said it wouldn't be covered anyway because it was out of warranty, and even if it was still under warranty they wouldn't cover it because of "over pressure loads" [ie my fault.]
Guess I should have told them "Gee, I've only shot Remington factory ammo in it"

. I can understand their position, they have no idea what kind of ammo somebody is running in their guns, but I know what I've run through it and just can't see that receiver cracking. I think it was just a case of regular pressures and weak material. Kind of like the car dealer telling you they won't warranty a cracked head because "you must have over-heated it cracking the head", of course it couldn't be the head cracking causing it to over-heat. But that's chicken and egg talk

And get this, they'll send my barreled action back at no charge, but if I pay for a new one they charge me 17 bucks to ship it. I told them to send it back, I'll just keep shooting it.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2011, 07:29:47 AM »

Fastchicken,

I would not continue to use this barreled action, a crack in any receiver means discarding for safety's sake. If the crack is due to manufacturing issues like impure steel, or excessive hardness due to over doing the heat treatment you have a disaster waiting to happen even with factory loads. You can have the receiver and bolt rockwell tested to see what the hardness is. They should measure between R30 and R40 with the barrel being in the R25 range. Any local machine shop should have a rockwell tester.

Did you ask the Remington Rep if they conducted Rockwell Hardness tests on your receiver?

fastchicken · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2011, 08:27:21 AM »

No, didn't even think to ask, but from my conversations with the reps, it wouldn't have mattered and they couldn't tell me anything other than what was in the notes from the shop.
And when I asked if there was somebody who could actually answer my questions, I was told by the "tech" that they would not ever get any work done if the smiths had to talk with customers to answer questions. I've talked with plenty of mechanics when a service writer couldn't answer a question about an auto repair, but I guess Big Green is just too big to take the time, unfortunate.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2011, 09:37:13 AM »

good old remington customer service.

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:01:37 PM »

The warranty doesn't cover the issue. They offered him a big discount on a new barreled action.

hesco · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:50:03 PM »

looks to me it may have cracked in the heat treat process or when the barrel was troqued down since the barrel takes most of the pressure cant see where this crack would create any problems, unless both bolt lugs rip thru the reciever, which seems very unlikely.
If they were going to send me a new barrels reciever, i would have to test the cracked reciever with some really hot load to see if it would distruct. The crack could also be tig welded stronger than new.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2011, 07:12:50 PM »

Quote from: hesco on June 19, 2011, 05:50:03 PM

looks to me it may have cracked in the heat treat process or when the barrel was troqued down since the barrel takes most of the pressure cant see where this crack would create any problems, unless both bolt lugs rip thru the reciever, which seems very unlikely.
If they were going to send me a new barrels reciever, i would have to test the cracked reciever with some really hot load to see if it would distruct. The crack could also be tig welded stronger than new.

i agree, look at all the "pit marks" surrounding the crack.

I certainly wouldnt shoot it nor pay to fix it. That should be covered by the warranty and if remington is crazy enough to send that back and tell them to shoot it, they are nuts.

fastchicken · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2011, 07:41:04 PM »

$290 a big discount? You must be joking. I've got a new 700 on the way for $425. Their price list showed the barreled action at $219, the other $70 included shipping, function and proof test and tax for a total of $290. I wasn't going to spend almost $300 on just the barreled action when 125 more gets me new gun. I like Remingtons and will continue to buy them, my other 700s are all shooters and have never had a problem.
Their fault, my fault, I'll get over it

. In any event, I was told that even if it was proven defective, they would not cover it due to it being 12 years old. Sure, I think they should, but again my idea of what should happen doesn't exactly match up with their's. So I don't think I'll spend any of my money to get it tested elsewhere just to be told again that they still won't cover it. Anyway, they didn't seem to concerned about it, neither of the three different reps I spoke with even recommended I don't shoot it. Who knows, maybe when I get it back they'll have affixed a huge "DANGER" label on it

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2011, 12:55:59 AM »

A Model 700 is a lot cheaper (but better) rifle than the Model 7. If folks could buy Model 7 barreled actions for that price they'd be selling like hot cakes.

BTW the Model 700s with scope are selling for $399.00 at Walmart. They are even less at Academy Sports & Dick's Sporting Goods.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2011, 08:03:08 AM »

they certainly have come down in price. Must be the blued models? I remember my brother laying down butt loads of $$ for his SS 700

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2011, 09:51:37 AM »

They have to sell at pretty close to cost, because of the market is flooded with cheap imports.

Stainless 700s normally go for about $450.00.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2011, 07:17:55 PM »

Dunno where you are finding them at such prices but around here I'd figure it stolen if someone offered one at such a price.

I picked up a new M700 today in a chambering I've been wanting for at least 30 maybe 40 years but just never got around to. It's an M700 CDL LTD SF LTD in .280 Remington. It has a stainless action and 24" stainless fluted barrel. Order #84021 made in limited quantities during 2010 only. I paid $915.59 out the door.

I didn't see any M700s in the kinda price range you speak of Swampy and haven't seen any at such in several years. The SPS guns are about bottom of the price range now other than the left over ADL models that still show up from time to time. I've not paid under $650 plus tax for a new M700 in years. The last ones were a pair of SPS Varmint rifles I gave $550 plus tax for.

I needed it like I need one more hole in the head but been wanting one for a lot of years and really badly since I picked up my first Mountain rifle in .270 cuz that and .30-06 was all the shop had and since he was going out of business he wouldn't order me one. That was in the '80s but I don't recall the year perhaps around mid '80s I think. Even that long ago I paid $450 for it which you are claiming will buy a new SS R700.

You need to step out of your dream world from time to time and join the rest of us in the real world.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2011, 04:40:01 AM »

Graybeard,

Nice rifle, but I perfer Parkerized finished Chrome/Moly steel over Stainless steel. Stainless steel used in the barrels is softer not heat treated as hard as the Chrome/Moly, you should use a cleaning rod guide and a coated cleaning rod when cleaning Stainless steel barrels in particular and it is a good idea with all barrels.

Many benchrest rifle Stainless steel barrels have been ruined by improper use of a cleaning rod. Stainless may not rust, but it sure damages easier from over zealous cleaning with the wrong approach being used.

Swampman simply has a case of retinoashitanitis altering his vision and judgement. Full of it for sure but mostly away from the norm. Nothing is wrong with having opposing views, I consider myself to be away from the norm also, consider it a compliment in many cases. Who wants to be like someone else, but it can be carried to extremes. I do respect Swampman for standing his ground, I rather have him with me in combat than some wishy washy sissy.

pastorp · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2011, 04:54:56 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 21, 2011, 12:53:36 AM

Last fall Dick's Sporting Goods had stainless ADLs in various calibers for $450.00. They'll run them again at that price this fall.

Swampy,

Blanket statements like the above are what some of us have a problem with you about. You certinally can testify about what you saw the M700s sell for last fall, but how can you possibably know what they will sell for this year. Now if you said "I believe they will run them again this fall" most of us could accept that. If you would just think about your blanket statements and word them differently at least some of us could accept that. You have a right to your opinions but you need to give us room for our opinions as well.

Regards,

pastorp · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2011, 06:21:28 AM »

If the economy recovers any then prices will go up, if it stays like it is now then you may be right.............

The new remington I bought last fall was the 700 cdl in 257 roberts. I paid over $800 for it. You heard what graybeard just paid for his latest. I guess time will tell.

Regards,

yooper77 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:04:24 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 21, 2011, 12:53:36 AM

Last fall Dick's Sporting Goods had stainless ADLs in various calibers for $450.00. They'll run them again at that price this fall.

Where are these NEW ADL's coming from didn't Remington quite making them and replaced them with SPS's? As far as I can tell from Remington's first link below. The ADL was last made in 2004, so they are selling 7 years old rifles. I can understand the low price for these ADL's since they are blind magazines, cheaper to make, but highly profitable if they are truly rifles made 7 years ago.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/bolt-action/model-700.aspx

http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx

I converted my father in-law's Remington ADL in 22-250 Remington into a SPS by replacing the stock and adding the much needed bottom metal.

I prefer the SPS, BDL or CDL over the ADL myself.

yooper77

Swampman · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:56:03 PM »

Having watched more than one floorplate open under recoil, I don't. Remington's serious hunting rifles like the Ti, the original Mountain Rifle, and the KS don't have them.

They make special runs of ADLs for the Big Box stores.

yooper77 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2011, 02:24:29 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on June 21, 2011, 01:56:03 PM

Having watched more than one floorplate open under recoil, I don't. Remington's serious hunting rifles like the Ti, the original Mountain Rifle, and the KS don't have them.

They make special runs of ADLs for the Big Box stores.

Yes I thought about the special runs, but who can ever trust a Big Box store.

Well never having a floorplate open under recoil, makes me like them even more.

yooper77

pastorp · « **Reply #25 on:** June 22, 2011, 04:11:24 AM »

Back when I owned & shot the heavy kickers, I never had a floor plate open under recoil. Not even with 375H&H & 458s. Must be a remington defect thing, because I usually shot CZ & winchester M70s in those calibers. I always thought the remingtons recoiled more in the bigbores than some other brands.

Regards,

Swampman · « **Reply #26 on:** June 22, 2011, 04:58:41 AM »

It's just a floorplate thing.

Remingtons are typically much lighter that similar "off brands" and so they do kick a little more.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** June 22, 2011, 05:26:55 AM »

I saw an XP-100 ( back then a 600 action ) loaded with bullseye , full case and a 140 gr bullet seated , It was a 7 BR . It was fired from a safe position ( behind a tree many yards away) . I did not see the film but those who did said it looked like smoke and gas came out of every possible opening. The gun was checked and was in spec although there was a slight bit of gas or flame cutting on the bolt face . Reason for the expericment was to see if the action would be safe for some very hot IMHSA loads and new rounds. Now if a smaller action could take that abuse how could a reciver crack on a 700 action with no damage to the bbl. or bolt ? UNLESS it was a bad reciever to start with ? I can't imagine Remington not sending a new one and testing /exaziming the cracked one . Something seems fishy here. The bad advertising they are getting here alone is worth the cost of an action to stop . Guess 3 rings of steel is just hype

fastchicken · « **Reply #28 on:** June 22, 2011, 06:36:52 AM »

Well, a week later and my action hadn't shown up so I made another call. The woman said "It should have been sent back but shows it's still in the repair shop". Said she was going to E-mail the repair shop to have it sent back. I also asked if she could tell me if the receiver had been rockwell hardness tested and she said she was the longest employed rep there and had never heard of rockwell hardness tests, so she couldn't say, but said it was probably magnafluxed. What a joke, I hope I never have to send another gun back to them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2011, 06:38:12 AM »

Try a Ruger