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Author Topic: .32 H&R Project  (Read 1949 times)

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Offline AlaninNM

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.32 H&R Project
« on: June 04, 2011, 02:25:50 PM »
After reading others stories of building non factory Handi barrels I've decided to go ahead and start looking for the parts needed.  I've decided on .32 H&R Mag (only seems fitting).  In looking for donor barrels I've looked at 7.7 arisaka, 7.62x53 mauser, S KS and Mosin barrels at 7.62x39 and 7.62x54 and of course 303 Brit.  The chrome lined Arisaka is problematic a used SKS barrel has a gas port drilled.  TC used 3.08 barrels for their 32-20s but a "30 H&R mag" I don't think so!  The mauser is a distinct possibility as is the .303 and have found a few available.  Others have used GM gunsmith Edition barrels which are very reasonably priced.  GM has in that series a "7.62x39 AK Raw Barrel Blank 1" x 20" with a bore / groove diameter: .301 / .311.  Although I'd like a longer barrel the price is right and it would be brand new.  What my question is GM offers real .32 cal barrels but they're listed at .306 bore / .312 groove diameters.  I know the .001 groove difference is doable but what about the.005 bore dif?  I welcome any other thoughts or observations.

Al in NM
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Offline jedman

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 03:02:58 PM »
  Alan,     I believe the .312 groove dia. is what you want for a 32 Mag.     Jed
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Offline knight0334

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 03:13:05 PM »
The Green Mountain .306"/.312" is what you want.

You can get .312" bullets for the .32 caliber handgun cartridge.   That will leave .006" to swage to the bore, and the bullet will mesh perfectly to the groove diameter, which just right.

You have to remember that .30 caliber rifle bullets swage from .308" to a .300"-.302" bore.  The grooves are .308", the same size as the bullet.   Just like .357" handgun bullets swage to about .35" for the bore, where as the groove diameter is .357" to match the bullet.

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Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2011, 05:34:05 AM »
My .32 H&R Mag is from a 303 Brit bbl works great . I shoot .313 cast with trail boss. Kurt
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Offline McDerry

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 06:06:39 AM »
bore diameter doesn't matter for those two barrels.  Twist rate does. 
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Offline AlaninNM

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2011, 08:01:24 PM »
Thank you all for your input.  And thank you McDerry for bringing up twist.  I've been researching twist rates and have found quite a variation .  I found mention of rates as high as 1 in 18 3/4. 1 in 16, and 1 in 14.  These seem to be older figures for smaller bullets in revolvers.  In more modern singleshots (TC) 1 in 10 seems to be the rate of choice and that's what a 303 Brit would be.  A lot of these guys are shooting larger 32-20 bullets as large as 175 grains.  The 7.62x39 AK Raw Barrel Blank mentioned in my OP has a twist rate of 9.5 to 1.  I'm thinking that might not be too fast for heavier bullets at plinking speeds.  As always I welcome comment, compliment or complaint.
Interesting essay by Ed Harris about his .32 cal H&R


       
Al
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 03:32:46 PM »
You can take E.H.'s comments to the bank, IMHO.
The faster twist will not only stabilize longer, thus heavier, bullets, but will also allow you to shoot the lighter bullets slower, ie; sub-sonic, which is way cool.
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Offline Farrier Matt

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 04:42:33 PM »
Id like to have a rifle like that with QD scope, about 4x. It would go well with my Single Six.
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 05:06:41 PM »
The 303 barrels seem to shoot cast bullets really well, they are a 5 land and groove with the lands being as wide as the grooves are, for some odd reason they are a left hand twist.  Larry
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 05:42:50 PM »
IIRC, Harry Pope said a left hand twist will rotate (for a right hander) the comb or cheekpiece into the shooter, rather than twist it away.
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Offline goofyoldfart

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 06:01:58 PM »
gcrank1: this may sound like a stupid question, but how does that make a difference? Just curious--not challenging anything. God Bless to all.

            Goofyoldfart   < aka GOF>
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 06:30:14 PM »
Does anyone know what velocity the .32 H&R Magnum is capable of out of a rifle? I see some Lil'Gun loads on the Hodgdon site.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 04:55:42 AM »
In theory I understand it to mean that once you achieve a good steady hold with a proper 'cheek weld' that anything that disturbes that will contribute to shots out of group. If the rifle rotates into you it 'should be' better than it rotating away, and thus to an unsupported area. Not that I am any great benchrester, but with my limited experience I know for a fact that with very subtle changes in hold and body placement, and thus recoil effect upon firing, the muzzle will twitch and Ive seen the 22LR bullet (through a 20X scope) go away from a group shot with different 'form'.
One summer spent on the back deck doing this many mornings while calm out (50yd.) taught me a lot. The ability to see the bullet hole appear right after the trigger break and know just how the rifle moved at the shot was invaluable.
Conclusion:
I AM the biggest variable, and not the most consistent, but with practice I can get better (would following ol' Harry make it easier/better?, probably not make it any worse).
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Offline goofyoldfart

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2011, 09:47:23 PM »
Thanks gcrank1:  I had the thought that it might make it better as it just tightens up the "Snuggle" but wasn't absolutely sure. thank you again. God Bless to all.

                                              Goofy. ;D
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Offline zoot686

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 01:57:50 PM »
Quote
I'm thinking that might not be too fast for heavier bullets at plinking speeds.

The faster twists should work better with the jacketed bullets while the slower twists should work better for cast bullets.
In either case, they'll both work, with only "how well" being the argument and there might not be "that" much difference there either.
That 1:22 twist is traditional and suitable for the .32-20 and the .32 S&W short with lead bullets, and I "think" that's green mountains intent in producing that barrel with that twist.

The very first insert I ever made over a quarter century ago was a 20 gauge insert machined from a .308 norma magnum barrel that I bought at a flea market for $10.
I chambered it for .32 S&W short using a "R" sized reamer and stuffed it down the barrel of an old phoenix rolling block 20 gauge shotgun.
It was probably a 1:10 twist, but it'd still shot "close to" one ragged hole groups at 25 yards using a 45 grain round ball from a Lee .311 mold and a couple grains of unique.
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 02:23:43 PM »
Use the 'Greenhill' chart for twist required to stabilize a bullet of a given length (long pointy bullets are different than short stubby bullets in many regards). Since longer also means heavier we often talk in terms of bullet weight for this, but it really is length. When picking a twist err on the faster side of the chart. When a twist is marginal only sometimes can you make up rotational speed to accomplish stabilization. It is physics as applied to ballistics.
For the example and calibers in question, the misnamed .32s, do you really want to only shoot stubby, ballistically poor 115ish grain bullets? Nobody uses them in 30cal.(my 30-06 bullets at .311 are not far from .313-.314s) matches for a reason. If you only want a short range blunt bullet shooter, by all means use a slow twist,; I just want someone interested in going this route to be able to act in an informed way to decide what type of barrel to use.
I have yet to see a faster twist .30-.32 shoot the shorter bullets poorly at their intended shorter ranges, yet shoot longer, heavier bullets well also; what could be better?
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22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 04:04:08 PM »
My own Trotter Special shoots 123/5 gr spitzer bullets designed for the 7.62x39 cartridge VERY well! I have loaded some 150's but haven't fired enough to really form opinions...  But Purchased a couple big boxes of Midway 123gr bullets...

My Savage and Marlin 32-20s like the 115 SWC I case as well as Speer 115 and Hornady 110 Gr jacketed slugs. These same slugs are only mediocre in the handi...

CW
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Offline zoot686

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 05:07:13 PM »
Quote
My own Trotter Special shoots 123/5 gr spitzer bullets designed for the 7.62x39 cartridge VERY well!

Sounds like you've got a short range deer rifle there *grins*
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Offline BAGTIC

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Re: .32 H&R Project
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 12:42:04 PM »
Quote from: Doublebass73 on June 08, 2011, 06:30:14 PM
Does anyone know what velocity the .32 H&R Magnum is capable of out of a rifle? I see some Lil'Gun loads on the Hodgdon site.
A check of Quickload shows it should be capable of 1600+plus fps with several powders (100 gr Hornady XTP)
 
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