The truth about ANWR..

[ironglow]

  I have family members who live in Alaska and who have worked the haul road (ice road, for TV), starting with the construction of the pipeline.  I have a couple nephews who work the Arctic Circle and the north slope daily.  We hear stories of the horrors of the possibility of drilling on the north slope.  Here is perhaps the most honest representation of the situation I have seen presented.  Have there been spills ?  Sure, but they are even more diligent at cleaning spills there than in the rest of the world..and many people don't know, God's creation cleans the residue by itself. Truth is, wherever oil is handled, there will be spills..only way we can prevent them is to swear off oil..not likely the day after tomorrow !
  Here is the picture, it's the truth that even Snopes couldn't refute the text or photos, except by quoting some enviro-whackos about spills that  could CONCEIVEABLY happen. 
     If you have doubts, we have posters on here who live in Alaska, ask them !  If It is logically true..pass it on as far and wide as you can...    Ironglow

   http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/anwr.asp

[magooch]

Now there you go, just trying to cloud the issue with truth and facts.  Obamunist the communist will not be deterred from his campaign to tranform us to a 4th world country.

[tsalam]

Just as important is that we have enormous reserves of oil locked in shale in several areas of the country and yet won't "drill" for that either. Instead, we buy oil from Canada who does process their shale. Also, the oil from Ak has been bought by foreign countries because we don't have the refinery facilities to process the dirty oil. What we need is to force the oil companies to build more refineries to process the oil we have.

[45-70.gov]

Just as important is that we have enormous reserves of oil locked in shale in several areas of the country and yet won't "drill" for that either. Instead, we buy oil from Canada who does process their shale. Also, the oil from Ak has been bought by foreign countries because we don't have the refinery facilities to process the dirty oil. What we need is to force the oil companies to build more refineries to process the oil we have.

yes  thats right.....FORCE THE OIL COMPANIES......

another freedom lover......

just get the government out of the way
and let the oil companies cut each others throat for our busines

FREE interprize will work

[ironglow]

  I am not in favor of forcing anybody, but I am not against making new rules (or removing useless rules) so as to make it more likely to boost competition, such as giving the smaller operators a better shot at some work.

[tsalam]

Ironglow, yes, but the oil companies are the only ones with the money to build the refineries:) Our government sure doesn't:) Legislation should "require" them to do it.

[torpedoman]

no "forcing" require just make it a condition for obtaining a drilling permit that the oil be refined and sold inside the borders of the U.S., those wanting to do business here would line up, the other would cry foul.

[DDZ]

Just as important is that we have enormous reserves of oil locked in shale in several areas of the country and yet won't "drill" for that either. Instead, we buy oil from Canada who does process their shale. Also, the oil from Ak has been bought by foreign countries because we don't have the refinery facilities to process the dirty oil. What we need is to force the oil companies to build more refineries to process the oil we have.

Force the oil companies? Isn't it so easy to just blame all our oil woes on the big bad oil companies. I think oil companies would build refineries if they didn't have to spend years in courts, wade through a mountain of government regulations, and jump through a mile of hoops to do so. Around the mid 70's is when the last refinery was built. Since then, the environmentalists started an all out war on stopping any more from being built.

[mcwoodduck]

Just as important is that we have enormous reserves of oil locked in shale in several areas of the country and yet won't "drill" for that either. Instead, we buy oil from Canada who does process their shale. Also, the oil from Ak has been bought by foreign countries because we don't have the refinery facilities to process the dirty oil. What we need is to force the oil companies to build more refineries to process the oil we have.

I do not want to disagree with you but I think your thinking is a little off.
We do not need to force the oil companies to do anything.  Basic economics state that they will make more production facilities, be they wells or refineries, employing many people and driving the price of fuel down.
We need to MAKE THE GOVERNMENT and enviromental wack jobs allow them to builds and drill.
No one has built a oil refinery since the mid to late 70's in this country.  The population has grown, the economy has grown and we are limiting the fuel to allow the economy to grow more.  Raising the prices of fuel and adding costs to the production of everything from food to moving the cheap goods we buy from China instead of being built here. 
The Oil CEO is not your enemy - the Envirmental morons, the Energy Department and Democrats in general are.

[45-70.gov]

Ironglow, yes, but the oil companies are the only ones with the money to build the refineries:) Our government sure doesn't:) Legislation should "require" them to do it.

then they would have a monopaly

whats wrong  with  the government get out of the way

and some  OTHER  entrepenure  that decides its a good  investment

just does  it.....and under sells the competition

[tsalam]

All points taken and understood.
45-70, I think the oil companies already have a monopoly:)
We are in a mess for sure and there are no easy answers. But, something needs to be done. We always blame our problems on ME oil producers but as I understand it, only something like 12% of our oil comes from the ME. Obviously the U.S. oil companies continue to make obscene profits and they hold tremendous sway in Washington so how can the people who make the decisions do anything if they all are beholden to the oil companies. This brings to mind the Golden Rule. The man with the gold makes the rules. That is never more true than with our politicians and their contributors.

[Swampman]

There isn't really enough oil in North America to give it much thought.  As long as Americans drive gas hogs (& 95% do)the country will continue down hill.

[Hooker]

There isn't really enough oil in North America to give it much thought.  As long as Americans drive gas hogs (& 95% do)the country will continue down hill.

That's not completely true North America has vast amounts of oil that government regulations will not allow to be exploited.
Also many places in the U.S. have that "not in my backyard attitude" when it comes to drilling . That 's not in their backyard if they can't make big bucks from it. Which is highly hypocritical because as you say a lot of these same folks drive gas hogs. They want the oil products but not the oil wells. So we continue to be dependent on foreign oil , and all the while these same folks who don't want us to drill throw tantrums because we are fighting wars all out the planet to protect and keep stable the places we get our oil from. The next time someone says to you that we should not drill here , ask them how many American lives are you willing to sacrifice so you can feel eco friendly.

Pat

[Pat/Rick]

Drill,pump and refine. All the garbage about waiting waiting until we're the only ones with oil to do so is garbage. Flood the market and see if OPEC drops their prices. When they do, buy from them. If they raise prices, pump more domestic until they lower again.

[mcwoodduck]

There isn't really enough oil in North America to give it much thought.  As long as Americans drive gas hogs (& 95% do)the country will continue down hill.

Freedom of choice is what has made America great.
The Cathay standards the increase fuel efficiency have resulted in many needless deaths all to save a few gallon of gasoline.  There is so much metal taken out of the cars that models from one or two years apart can have similar crashes with all walking away from the older gas guzzler and all dieing in the fuel efficient car.
When some dolt in the 1900's said we only have 90+ years of oil left in the country.
That was based on:
 the known oil fields at the time
the technology we had to get the oil.
and a projected growth rate based on no alternative energy being used.
Since then we have found oil off shore, in Alsaka, and in the shale deposits.
The tecnology has made it possible to get to the oil and pull it out of sand and shale.
We also have alternative sources of energy- Coal and natural gas to augment the oil. ( you thought I was going to say the silly gimmik win and solar didn't you?)
Gas could be ack to the $1.00 a gallon if the oil companies were allowed to drill and obtain the natural resources we have instead of buying forgien oil or allowing others to drill in our waters.  Why is is bad for the Americans and English to drill in the Gulf but  Venezula, Cuba, and China is ok?   Communist countries have only worried about the end result not the means to get there and have been the worlds leading polluters.
Why can we not build more refineries in the country to meet the needs of the fuel demanded to fuel our economy?
I understand conservation.  and sure where there is waiste we can cut back- Capitalism is the perfect vehicle for that with supply and demand as well as price.  Companies that waiste goods will be out of business.  New ones will open to take there place to make a better widget. 
It would be like trying to diet your way out of a fammin.  You still need 1200 of Calories a day to survive and a steady diet of 800 is going to kill you no matter how little work you do.
Think about all the goods you use daily.  Now think aboout all the fuel it takes to mine, grow, ship, manufacture, distribute and retail to you not to mention the services you use.  Figure you are using 2 gallons of fuel a day just staying at home.

[mcwoodduck]

Drill,pump and refine. All the garbage about waiting waiting until we're the only ones with oil to do so is garbage. Flood the market and see if OPEC drops their prices. When they do, buy from them. If they raise prices, pump more domestic until they lower again.

Good call.
That is what happened in the 80's and the enviromental wack jobs made it so we could not reopen our oil fields and build new refineries.  The goal of the Department of energy when opened was to find ways to use our resources to limit the amount of forgien energy needed to fuel out economy.  They have done the exact opposite.

[streak]

Pat/Rick and mcwoodduck,
Good points!
Also remember that the Bakken shale formation supposedly has more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia. The Niobrara play along with the most recent Eagle Ford discoveries here in the U.S. are producing so much oil that some of these producing areas do not have the pipeline capacity to transport this oil and a lot of it has to be transported by tanker trucks! So there s lot`s of oil here in the U.S. That still does not count the vast reserves that ANWR could produce. So if the " Bunny Huggers" and the U.S. Gov`t would get out of the way this problem could be solved pretty darn fast!

[mcwoodduck]

Streak,
Refining is the Acheales heel of our economy.
And no sense spending the $ to dig it out of the earth is you can not use is as fast as you dig.
But my point is not to tell others what to do with their money and time it is to tell the government not to limit what they can do with their money and time as long as it is safe. (for the workers, water tables, and near by people).
Clearly we have existing refineries so they are safe.

[Dixie Dude]

There is a 47 year supply of natural gas in Anwar, not just oil. 

No new refineries have been built since the 1970s.  No one wants them in their back yard.  Environmentalists, etc.  A lot of our own crude is piped to Mexico to be refined into gasoline, then piped back across the border. 

There is a 200 year supply of shale oil in Western US, but most is on government property such as grasslands, deserts, and national forests.  It was put in reserve by Eisenhower when he created OPEC to buy their oil first and save ours for national emergencies. 

We can make synthetic oil from our 800 year supply of coal.

We can make algae oil in greenhouses.

We can make natural gas from cow manure from feedstalls and dairy farms (approximately 1/3 of our annual consumption).  It can also be made from seaweed in shallow water along the coasts from a seaweed that grows 6' a day. 

We can make hydrogen gas from nuclear power plants located near coast lines.  Hydrogen can be transported in the existing natural gas system.  It will eventually replace natural gas in 100-150 year.  Burners would require a steel wool pad to cover and glow red during burning since hydrogen burns almost invisible. 

Lots of answers, but no one wants to make the choices because the government stands in the way.  Like Reagan said, "government isn't the solution, government is the problem".  With energy, they are the problem.  Excessive regulation, no nukes, no drilling, high corporate taxes, etc, etc. 

[DDZ]

Oil Companies make a bunch of money because they produce and sell a bunch of product. Their profit is around 8-10%, which is low compared to other fortune 500 companies. If oil companies made 15-20% like some drug, tobacco, and beverage companies do, gas would be a lot higher than 3.50 a gallon. Again its not the oil companies fault, there is no oil, or gas costs $4 a gallon.

Dixie Dude is correct. There is enough oil in ANWAR and the Bakken shale to supply our needs for years. Its the environmentalists and our government that don't want us to hear that. Its why you have people saying that there is no oil in North America. If oil companies were allowed to extract oil here, they would find even more oil. What incentive is there for oil companies to spend millions looking for oil if they can't extract it?
As long as we keep voting in politicians with the likes of what we have, you can be assured we will never be able to extract oil here.

[Swampman]

If we had oil we'd be using it.  We don't have enough to fool with.

[Dixie Dude]

Swampman, you do not know what you are saying.  I work in the natural gas industry.  We HAVE TAPPED AND CAPPED a 200 year supply of natural gas.  Eisenhower put in naval reserve the 200 year supply of shale oil out west.  Check your history.  We can make algae oil for $2.00 a barrel (before taxes) which would make it about $4.00 or more after taxes.  We can make synthetic coal oil for about the same price.  If oil stays above $100 a barrel, you may see more algae or coal oil made into diesel or gasoline.  We can burn natural gas in fleet vehicles like UPS trucks, utility trucks, garbage trucks, postal trucks, etc and cut 40% of our imported oil.  Lots we can do at a reasonable price right now.  GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS ARE THE PROBLEM PERIOD.

We can't build any refineries because of government regulations and people not wanting them in their back yard.  We can't drill because of government regulations, EVEN ON LAND OUT WEST.  We have been fracturing shale formations for natural gas, now they may be forming earthquakes like in Arkansaw. 

Government regulations have kept nuclear power plants from being built.  People in some areas have voted against windmills, like off Cape Cod, because they have to look out to sea and see windmills.  They built a fuel oil power plant instead.  Same in Delaware. 

There is more natural gas in Alaska than oil, but GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS HAVE NOT ALLOWED THE 800 MILE PIPELINE VIA THE ALASKA HIGHWAY TO BE BUILT.  Canada said they would take it through back to the US via their integrated system.  Canada isn't the problem, THE US GOVERMMENT IS THE PROBLEM.

[Swampman]

All this is well and good but we don't have light sweet crude so we really don't have any oil.  If we'd quit driving gas hogs around with one person in them we could tell the Arabs to kiss off.  Instead we remain at their feet.

[DDZ]

Swampman, you do not know what you are saying. 

I will second that.  Swampman do a little research of your own instead of listening to those who don't what you to know anything.

The marcellus shale in PA, NY, and WV contains on estimates over 4 trillion cubic feet of gas. Just say 30% of that can be extracted, that is more gas than we could use. Just 50 TCF of gas would be enough to supply the whole US for two years.
Because of the marcellus shale the company I work for is researching the building of a liquid natural gas plant for storing gas and selling gas over seas. Liquefying natural gas is the easiest way to move NG for moving it over seas. They now have a LNG plant that receives NG from over seas where it is off loaded, stored and then turned back into a gas to be moved through pipelines. One ship load can contain 34 million gallons, which is enough natural gas to meat the daily energy needs of 10 million homes.
We have enough natural gas and oil to supply our needs for hundreds of years. All we have to do is let the oil and gas companies develop, and extract it.       

[Swampman]

Wonderful we have lots of natural gas.  We don't have any light sweet crude.  That equals no gasoline.

We need gasoline not natural gas.

[streak]

Come on Swampman!
Have you ever heard of light Texas crude?? Or light sweet oil from Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and the  Bakken formation??

Yes! We have light sweet oil!

[mcwoodduck]

Wonderful we have lots of natural gas.  We don't have any light sweet crude.  That equals no gasoline.

We need gasoline not natural gas.

From what I can find on the internet the oil in the North slope of Alaska is light sweet crude that is what is used for diesel, gasoline, jet fuels and heating fuel.
The waste petro chemicals are used for Plastics and other industrial uses.
The North slope is where Prudo bay and Anwar are.
The same with the Gulf of Mexico and the path of the south from Lousiana to California coast.
Also what I think the guys are trying to tell you is that Narural gas can be used in many places such as power generation (electric car) or in fleet vehicles like trucks or trains and with little modification can be made into passenger cars.
With the fuel able to be liquified and stored easy - your local gas station may have a Natural gas pup sitting right next to the diesel and your smart car would get 30 miles to the cubic liter instead of 75 miles ot the gallon.
If you get your smart car on LNG or just NG then I can run my full size Ford Bronco.  Yes it is a gas guzzler but as long as I can afford the gas I will drive what I want and like to drive, instead of a modified two seat moped that will give you a limp if you hit the curb trying to park.
I would like to see someone try to take a 200 Pound pig, a deer or bigger animals to the butches shop in a Smart car.
That thing would not hold a normal saturday's worth of range ammo.

[Swampman]

It will all be gone in a few years...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/world-oil-supplies-are-set-to-run-out-faster-than-expected-warn-scientists-453068.html

Yes it is a gas guzzler but as long as I can afford the gas I will drive what I want and like to drive,

And therein lies the problem.  We only care about ourself.

[Brewster]

Lotta oil in the Bakken, but the cost of extraction is high.  If oil was at $50, the Bakken would be abandoned and North Dakota (aka Mississippi of the north) would dry up

[bigMikeA]

Oil Companies make a bunch of money because they produce and sell a bunch of product. Their profit is around 8-10%, which is low compared to other fortune 500 companies. If oil companies made 15-20% like some drug, tobacco, and beverage companies do, gas would be a lot higher than 3.50 a gallon. Again its not the oil companies fault, there is no oil, or gas costs $4 a gallon.

BINGO!!  DDZ...  bless your heart! 

Everybody is always talking about the OBSCENE profits made by the oil companies because oil company profits are always reported by the MSM and oil company bashers in numbers of dollars as opposed to % of overhead or whatever!

The oil companies spend mega quadzillion $$ on production, exploration, R&D, transportation, liability lawyers  , etc, etc, etc.   Numbers of dollars so high the average anti corporation radical can't even comprehend. 

So MSM reports that Acme Big Oil made $100 mil profit last year and everybody goes apes**t. $100 mil profit!!  That's obscene!  But they only made 8 - 10 % on their investment;  NOBODY will report that.

Something I have always wondered;  if the big oil profits are so outlandish and OBSCENE, why is not everybody lined up to buy oil company stock???

I will repeat that for the logically challenged: if the big oil profits are so outlandish and OBSCENE, why is not everybody lined up to buy oil company stock???

Will bet you Red Wings to Birkenstocks that Starbucks, Microsoft, Apple Computer, Pategonia, etc, etc,  and most all darling corps. of the leftist elite made higher % profits than "Big oil".