Author Topic: Anti-Hoarding Laws  (Read 6409 times)

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Offline teamnelson

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Anti-Hoarding Laws
« on: February 27, 2011, 05:59:25 PM »
I was dismayed to learn just now that my state has an anti-hoarding provision in the templated Executive Order enacted during states of emergency (i.e. hurricane/tsunami). It limits households to only 1 weeks worth of supplies; excess is criminal, can be confiscated, and violators jailed. Even if it was legally purchased. I violate that every time I go to Sam's Club. Looked it up on my states Revised Statutes, and found a few more websites to confirm. Might want to look into that for your state.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 06:45:31 PM »
Who me? I never have more than a two day supply of anything on hand. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :o


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Offline Lurker

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 07:10:46 PM »
I was dismayed to learn just now that my state has an anti-hoarding provision in the templated Executive Order enacted during states of emergency (i.e. hurricane/tsunami). It limits households to only 1 weeks worth of supplies; excess is criminal, can be confiscated, and violators jailed. Even if it was legally purchased. I violate that every time I go to Sam's Club. Looked it up on my states Revised Statutes, and found a few more websites to confirm. Might want to look into that for your state.

If you don't mind saying, what state do you live in?

Bill

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 05:37:53 AM »
Presently stationed in Hawaii. I understand though that several states have similar provisions in their statutes.
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Offline Matt3357

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 05:46:17 AM »
Surely it doesn't mean supplies that you purchased before the emergency started.  I can see it being a necessary law if during a state of emergency, one rich guy runs to the grocery store and buys all of the food leaving nothing left for anyone else.  What a crock if it means you can't be prepared before hand.  Utopia is a figment of an overactive imagination that leads to people thinking that if something goes bad, they will be taken care of by the big government they set up.  I say be prepared and just don't tell anyone.

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Offline Spector

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 06:11:30 AM »
What about foods you have grown in your own garden and canned, dried or frozen?............Mike

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 09:06:52 AM »
FEMA says have supplies on hand , wonder how fed vs state would play out ?
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 09:11:13 AM »
It would seem both the 4th and 5th anmd. to the consitution would be of importance here .
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Offline no guns here

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 09:11:21 AM »
I always thought that anti-hoarding was directed at last minute purchase before the emergency.  Seems like that would be the intent.  You couldn't go in and buy everything in the store because then others wouldn't get something or you would be into some serious profiteering during the aftermath.


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Offline no guns here

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 09:12:05 AM »
Since when did the government really seriously give a crap about the constitution?


NGH
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 09:17:34 AM »
We're not talking a single piece of legislation, but layers of Executive Orders over the past 100 years that culminate in the most recent empowerment of FEMA to take over in a national emergency, with powers that suspend Constitutional protection. Several states have additional provisions (like Hawaii) for local enforcement. At the federal level, however, some of the wording opened the door for national seizure of crops, mines, wells, etc. on private land. In HI, for example, the express limit on how much a citizen can lawfully hoard in his home is not defined in the text of the statute, but in the committee notes which is included with the statute to guide enforcement by designated authority. That does not exclude canned, or jarred produce from one's own garden, nor livestock or fish. We're playing the odds right now against a major hurrinami; we're overdue per the cycles. If a reasonably predictable level event occurred in our State, we'd be out of food in 2 weeks apart from home supplies, and the only way to bring more in would be by ship or plane. If it were more than just a local event, we're on our own for the duration.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 09:19:10 AM »
It would seem both the 4th and 5th anmd. to the consitution would be of importance here .

That's the position of the LDS Church to protect their 1 year supply policy. I'm not LDS, but makes sense to me. That said, I found out about our own state's anti-hoarding statutes from an LDS person here in Hawaii - there are a lot of them.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 09:24:21 AM »
So does the state assume responsiblity to feed you when you run out ? It would seem less advertisement about you stash is important . If others go for handout food maybe you should also. The healthy and well fed in a time of starvation will draw attention .
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Offline Scibaer

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 12:37:00 PM »
where i live, michigan, the hoarding laws tend to come into play only when someone has 20 cats, or alot of old cars laying about..
 not when  foodstuffs or survival items are involved.
 it also comes into play when stock piling happens ( buying in large quantities  in the light of a perceived
disaster  .. to help control a run on local stores.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 01:53:03 PM »
where i live, michigan, the hoarding laws tend to come into play only when someone has 20 cats, or alot of old cars laying about..
 not when  foodstuffs or survival items are involved.
 it also comes into play when stock piling happens ( buying in large quantities  in the light of a perceived
disaster  .. to help control a run on local stores.

Even good laws can become bad laws when the time is right. I'd rather someone have 20 cats today, than they limit how much food I can have tomorrow. We don't tend to think that way though, do we? We tend to think short term, like the guy with 3 rusted cars in his front yard is bringing my property values down. But the same law that prohibits his antique collection on the lawn can/will be used against you just as easily.
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Offline hillbill

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 02:29:53 PM »
well what if i have 20 cats i plan to use for food? or 20 cows, rabbits, etc?

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 06:10:27 PM »
LOL! yep, twenty cats worth of taco meat!

I'm going to have to see if i can find anything about that for WA state. I think I would have a hard time with being forced to deplete my stocks to care for those who didn't find it neccesary to plan ahead. Could lead to an interesting confrontation. Last one alive lights the flares. I absolutely admire the LDS for their self sufficient beliefs.

Offline pab1

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 06:46:54 PM »
By planning ahead and purchasing food/supplies when they are abundant, you help relieve the pressure applied when actual "hoarding" takes place during an emergency by those who failed to plan. The more dependent an area is upon products being shipped in, the more critical it is to have emergency supplies. Most grocery stores no longer have large inventories on hand and rely on frequent (often daily) deliveries to keep the shelves stocked. If I didn't know better, I would say it sounds like the state wants to ensure everyone is dependent on them in the event of an emergency.   ;)  :-\
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Offline tsalam

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2011, 06:50:19 PM »
Pat/Rick here in Idaho it is a well known joke that in times of trouble all you have to do is find a mormon to rob:) One told me one time that the reason for their stores is that when people run out of food the mormons will require them to convert to mormonism before they feed them. Don't know if it is true or not. I worked the Teton Dam disaster back in the 70's and the floods took everything the mormons had stored there. There were small hills of ruined stores in the middle of the streets. So I guess just trying to prepare like that for a disaster is not always insurance. You could lose it all.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 04:08:47 AM »
AKA Bill Clinton. ''Define Hoarding''. Buying and stocking up, when there is no emergency, isn't hoarding. It's being smart. Beside's, if you don't tell anybody, who's gonna know? Who's going to enforce the law, when an emergency hits, everybody is covering their own butt. gypsyman
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2011, 10:19:23 AM »
LOL! yep, twenty cats worth of taco meat!
I was thinking you mix it with adobo and some beans & peppers in a pot outside over an open fire, invite your neighbors who probably could use a good meal at that point (like day 7), and make it a social event. Save the dinty moore for another day.
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 01:10:30 PM »
Day 7 might be good  ;). Small trap and a can of sardines for bait................

Executive order #10998  (clinton)  .......federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public,private and all farms and equipment. Hmmm, okay.

I have not read the full text of this EO section yet, I have been searching for laws concerning hoarding here in WA state but haven't found any yet. I for one, would be pretty hard pressed to turn over food stores that would guarantee my family and grand kids a few meals. Hard pressed enough to defend them.

Offline hillbill

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2011, 03:21:47 PM »
Day 7 might be good  ;). Small trap and a can of sardines for bait................

Executive order #10998  (clinton)  .......federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public,private and all farms and equipment. Hmmm, okay.

I have not read the full text of this EO section yet, I have been searching for laws concerning hoarding here in WA state but haven't found any yet. I for one, would be pretty hard pressed to turn over food stores that would guarantee my family and grand kids a few meals. Hard pressed enough to defend them.
turning over your food stores for the benefit of those who have none?can anybody guess which dead and failed russian dictator tried this?

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2011, 03:34:26 PM »
I have some ammo they can confiscate.  I keep the brass though.
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Offline The Hermit

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2011, 04:05:17 PM »
Through out history, people who are smart enough to plan ahead and lay in supplies, were usually labeled as hoarders and just plain bad folks in time of crisis. Remember that at one time, gold was also confiscated in the US. Plan accordingly.   

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Offline Matt3357

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2011, 06:10:23 AM »
So much for the land of the free.  I guess I lived under the impression that if you work hard and prepare you can succeed, but it sounds as though all that could be ripped from you if there is a "crisis" because other people did not prepare.  Kinda sounds like welfare to me, happens everyday, why would a time of crisis be any different.  I will say, they will have to fight to take my supplies. 

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2011, 06:12:05 AM »
rob from the rich and give to the poor mentality to the end ! :o ::) :'(
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Offline Matt3357

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 08:01:03 AM »
Kind of OT question but related.  Was Robin Hood then good or evil for robbing the rich and giving to the poor?

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 08:16:22 AM »
guess it would depend on if you were rich or poor  ;D keep in mind though he only took and gave back what had been taken from the poor to start with  ;) . here we have taking from the workers to give to the non workers or non producers !
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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Anti-Hoarding Laws
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2011, 01:08:33 PM »
Day 7 might be good  ;). Small trap and a can of sardines for bait................

Executive order #10998  (clinton)  .......federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public,private and all farms and equipment. Hmmm, okay.

I have not read the full text of this EO section yet, I have been searching for laws concerning hoarding here in WA state but haven't found any yet. I for one, would be pretty hard pressed to turn over food stores that would guarantee my family and grand kids a few meals. Hard pressed enough to defend them.
turning over your food stores for the benefit of those who have none?can anybody guess which dead and failed russian dictator tried this?

 I would say Stalin. For a fact he took from farms and public stores to insure the armies had some. Don't know about Krushev who followed him. But then, it could have happened when the soviet union fell apart. Since you listed russian and not soviet I would have to say Gorbachoff (sp?)