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Offline manatee1947

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450 marlin
« on: February 27, 2011, 03:41:41 PM »
I have been talking to a guy who may be wanting to trade me a 450 Marlin Guide gun, going to meet him tomorrow. Now I see that the 450 has been DCd in the new catalog. I know the handi did come in one, does anybody have any ideas about future brass availability? I ask here because it will effect guys here also, and H&R is tied into Marlin. Midway and Graf both have no brass available, no backorders being taken, possible brass available date there is SEPTEMBER. Is the 450 gone from handi land permanently ?? Anybody have any lines of info into Hornady, no one else makes the brass do they???
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2011, 04:07:19 PM »
Brass should not be a problem. I beleive the 450 marlin is just a shortened 458 Win mag.
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Offline Flemc1

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2011, 04:16:43 PM »
Hornady is the only source for the 450 brass , And its NOT 458 win that has been shortened . The belt on the 450 is thicker / longer.  It is its own breed .

Chris
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2011, 04:26:14 PM »
Check Marlin Owners. Brass does not exist and has not for at least 2 years. What people do is buy Hornady factory loads, 350 gr FP, not Lever Revolution, shoot them and save the brass. That is full length brass, Lever Revolution brass is short. The factory loads can be as cheap as $1.25 each, which is cheaper than the brass+bullet+primer+powder would be.

There is some dispute about whether or not Marlin has discontinued their own caliber. Their catalog is not perfect.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2011, 05:30:41 PM »
The H&R 450 Marlin hasn't been available as a rifle for many years, it's only been available as an accessory barrel for a long time, and only because they had barrels left over from the first run,  demand for it being very low, FWIW.

Tim
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Offline xhare

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2011, 05:53:26 PM »
When the 450 Marlin was first released I was very excited.  Not because of its potential as a levergun cartridge, but its potential in a short action bolt gun.  I shot a lightweight custom 458 American once and loved it.  Alas, the 450 bolt guns that were produced were few and far between.  To me it would have been the best use of the cartridge.  In levers and single shots the 45-70 is just the better choice. 

In the end I did not want a bolt 450 Marlin enough to convert a 350 Remington Model 7, or to buy one of the few bolts that did come to market.  I think Browning made one briefly in their custom shop as did Sako, both pricey.  Im not 100% sure though.

I still love the idea of a short action Savage, stainless, with a high quality composite stock and an 18 inch barrel, in 450 Marlin.  Would have been easy for Savage to make, and would have sold decently I believe.     
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2011, 06:11:38 PM »
it will probably go the way of the .350 Rem Mag.  Remington dropped production of the cartridge for a while.  Then during the short Magnum craze they started making the guns again.  Then came the ammo.  Everyone I know with a .350 (I have two) have stock piled enough brass to last us for the rest of our lives.
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Offline manatee1947

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 07:11:35 AM »
Thanks for all the info. I met the guy and was pretty sure he was a little overpriced, after the info I was sure he was. We met amicably and both came home with the best deal, our own gun.
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 12:21:30 PM »
Personally, I think that the 450 GG is going into collectible territory.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 01:27:52 PM »
No offense, but from the perspective of a handloader, the 450M is just a 45-70 wantabe.  ;) In another 140yrs, no one will even know about the 450M except by what's written in books....if books exist that is!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Tim
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 03:14:49 PM »
Quote from: Flemc1 on February 27, 2011, 04:16:43 PM
Hornady is the only source for the 450 brass , And its NOT 458 win that has been shortened . The belt on the 450 is thicker / longer.  It is its own breed .

Chris
I sit corrected. :)
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Offline srussell

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 05:56:20 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 28, 2011, 01:27:52 PM
No offense, but from the perspective of a handloader, the 450M is just a 45-70 wantabe.  ;) In another 140yrs, no one will even know about the 450M except by what's written in books....if books exist that is!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Tim

 yea i  thought it was kinda funny when they  said the 450 was going to be every thing a 45-70 should be ( kinda 45-70 mag  ;D ;D)
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Offline tony212

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 05:40:07 AM »
Its really sad because the 450 was an excellent cartridge.  I agree with Xhare though, it would have been much better if it had been released in a bolt gun, or even the Spartan double rifle.  It was sort of like the .280 Remington being released in the 740.  It as more a matter of poor rifle choice than poor bullet performance the caused its demise.
Tony212
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 06:29:07 AM »
Quote from: tony212 on March 01, 2011, 05:40:07 AM
it would have been much better if it had been released in a bolt gun, or even the Spartan double rifle.

The Spartan was only rated for SAAMI 28kpsi trapdoor loads, so that wouldn't work even if they still made it.  :-\

Tim

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=note%3A+for+use+with+saami+compliant+loads+only+%2828%2C000+psi+%2F+28%2C000+cup+operating+pressure%29.&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS301US301&ie=UTF-8&aq=0&oq=
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Offline Dillohide

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 06:34:23 AM »
I bought one of those 450M accessory barrels a few years ago. Think it was $80 on sale. I already had a 45-70, so the 450M was just a new toy.  It is a 45-70 with a different case, the 450M case is shorter therefore more pressure so be careful! My best 450M load is 54.5 grains of Varget under a 405 gr Remington bullet with Winchester large rifle primer. I wanted to have a little more brass so a couple months ago I ordered a box of Hornady 450M ammo on sale at Midway, unloaded everyone of them for the brass and reloaded the load above ;D
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2011, 07:47:52 AM »
I just bought 26 once fired 45-70 cases off a gun show table for $3; did I do wrong?  ;)
Im getting real tired of special brass that everybody lists but is BO, and way expensive when you do find it.
Guess Im just a crusty ol' cob.........
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Offline tony212

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2011, 11:35:14 PM »
Quick D,    You know more about this than me, but wasn't the Spartan double offered in .30-06?   That would make it 60,000PSI as opposed to the .450 Marlin at 45,000PSI.
Tony212
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Offline petemi

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 02:48:58 AM »
I personally have no interest in it.  If I bought, and I might, a guide gun it would be in .45-70.  It's been around way more than 100 years and I have the dies, brass and bullets for it.  I believe it will be here for another 100 years.......certainly longer than I'm gonna walk the woods.

As a side note, I still have no info on availability of .445 brass.

Pete
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2011, 05:03:48 AM »
Quote from: quickdtoo on February 28, 2011, 01:27:52 PM
No offense, but from the perspective of a hand-loader, the 450M is just a 45-70 wannabe.  ;) In another 140yrs, no one will even know about the 450M except by what's written in books....if books exist that is!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Tim

Spot on Tim!!  ;D

 Yet another a solution to a non existant problem.  ::) At least it was non existant when people took responsibility for them selves and didn't need to call a lawyer to "fund" a issue that they very likely created. Marlin and Hornady's Lawyers where not "comfortable" loading 45/70 +P loads on dealers shelves. SO the idea of the 450 Marlin was hatched. As you can tell, it never much interested me...  ;)

We hand loaders have been getting 450 marlin ballistics for decades.

CW
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 05:05:36 AM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on March 01, 2011, 07:47:52 AM
Im getting real tired of special brass that everybody lists but is BO, and way expensive when you do find it.
Guess Im just a crusty ol' cob.........

Shoot me a PM on this my friend... ::)

CW
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: 450 marlin
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 05:34:24 AM »
Quote from: tony212 on March 06, 2011, 11:35:14 PM
Quick D,    You know more about this than me, but wasn't the Spartan double offered in .30-06?   That would make it 60,000PSI as opposed to the .450 Marlin at 45,000PSI.
Tony212

I suspect the chamber wall thickness was the issue , the 45-70 has a bigger case head than the 30-06.

Tim
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