Author Topic: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.  (Read 12256 times)

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Offline beerbelly

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2011, 07:31:34 AM »
Once again, every Christian preacher I have ever talked to said the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ the savior. Jews do not believe, so tell me how they are going to heaven?

Offline BBF

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2011, 09:07:46 AM »
Perhaps the preacher(s) are wrong or a lot of the Chosen are going to another place.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2011, 02:01:08 PM »
TM says;

   "  That and the fact that the word 'jew' really is a modern word (circa 1800), never in the Bible...but simply means a person from Judeah. Not only could the lost tribes be Christians and jews, but most likely are islamics, too. Actually, all three of these religions, in their modern iterations,,,The Bible Council of Nicea. Babylonian Talmud, The Qu'ran....  originated in approximately the same time period....350-500 AD.'

   
  Wow TM !
       You really have trouble with hstory, don't you !   Obviously, since Muhammad claimed to have written the koran, it couldn't have been written before 600-620 AD... or was Muhammad lying..what say you ?  Here's some info on the history of the Koran..
 
     .. Just scroll down to "the uninspirted Koran"    http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
       
     Your mention of the council of Nicea..nice try at a straw man.. ;) :D :D ;D  Church history didn't start at Nicea ! DUH !      FYI..The Christian Church was started shortly after the resurrection, see ...(Acts 2:40-42) ..And it was in Jerusalem..not Nicea nor Rome..

   Nice try though ! ;D ;D ;D :P
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2011, 03:50:41 PM »
IG. YEP. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2011, 04:06:32 PM »
  In his post #93 TM says;
  "Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly: twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."


  I say;
  TM; we are continually speaking of the importace of "context" !  Remember " Text without context, is simply pretext"... ;)

    That is why I find it so humorus that you searched and found (Gen 17:20) to quote as above...but you missed (Gen 17:19) immediately preceeding it; which says;

(Gen 17:19)  " And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him".

  Now, how did you happen to overlook that highly important, contextual verse ?  ;) ;D ::)


If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2011, 04:31:27 PM »
IG. He, or she didn't miss it but it doesn't go with his, or her,  anti Christian, anti Jew, pro godless agenda. Simple enough. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2011, 03:28:02 AM »
Quote
So you're saying Isaac supercedes Christ....you're saying Isaac and a parcel of land is your Christ. Interesting,,, occult...but interesting.
Christ put and end occult 'chosenism' and other hyporcrisy....very simple.




What a patheticaly ridiculous thing to say, even for you. That wasn't the least bit amusing, but I'm sure you'll give me a good laugh before the day is over. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2011, 04:40:07 PM »
Quote
So you're saying Isaac supercedes Christ....you're saying Isaac and a parcel of land is your Christ. Interesting,,, occult...but interesting.
Christ put and end occult 'chosenism' and other hyporcrisy....very simple.




REMOVED BY MODERATOR

.

That's exactly what you and IG are saying, selling, and promoting by your rhetoric, belief system, and actions. Re-crucifying Christ in essence--trying to nail him to some Tree of israel in reality. Its ashame.....


.TM7
.

    TM;
  When are you ever going to learn ? Whenever you use the term " So you're saying"...that simply means you are going to try to twist and add "spin" to what I have said.
     So don't try to tell me what I said...if you do not understand or have a problem with comprehension; ASK again what I said or meant.  Don't try to twist or spin what I really did say...

  I am quite sure most here are aware of that device...so don't bother with it any more !  So when one hears anyone say.."What you're really saying, is"..we should be ready to hear a bunch of "spin"..useless
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2011, 04:46:27 PM »
REMOVED BY MODERATOR
REMOVED BY MODERATOR.

Quit insulting each other or this thread will be locked.

Which Jesus do you and Ironglow listen to, Powder?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2011, 04:57:13 PM »
  I don't recognize either of those mocking caricatures...they are yours, as far as I am concerned.  Jesus is God and I only view Him in a most reverent manner, not with some mocking, childish cartoon.



    "Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth, that also shall he reap".   (Galatians 6:7)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline 1marty

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2011, 04:57:36 PM »
more people have died in history defending "their" god then any political idea. Where does the US get off telling Israel they cannot build on their own land.

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2011, 05:00:25 PM »
more people have died in history defending "their" god then any political idea. Where does the US get off telling Israel they cannot build on their own land.


1Marty;
  I guess if the "leader of the free world" is heavily influenced by mideast Islamics, he might try to !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2011, 05:37:20 PM »
  I don't recognize either of those mocking caricatures...they are yours, as far as I am concerned. 
gee, this reaction reminds me of those Muslims who had a fit when Mohammad was portrayed. And I recall many here taking pleasure in it.

For the record... I identify with the Jesus on the left - you know, the Jesus of scripture?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2011, 03:20:31 AM »
  I don't recognize either of those mocking caricatures...they are yours, as far as I am concerned.  Jesus is God and I only view Him in a most reverent manner, not with some mocking, childish cartoon.



    "Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth, that also shall he reap".   (Galatians 6:7)




IG. Good post.
1 MARTY. Correct. The obamination has no right telling Israel they can't build on their own land. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2011, 04:16:08 AM »
more people have died in history defending "their" god then any political idea. Where does the US get off telling Israel they cannot build on their own land.

you'd have to ask the US gov't for the answer to that, or do a little reading to find out. I suspect it is because Israeli construction on conquered land makes it all the less likely that said land will be play for negotiations on the size/shape of a Palestinian state. 

that's my guess. what do you think?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2011, 04:47:06 AM »
Its not  their land...its occupied land. Illegal to build on occupied land. All israel has to do is ratify a constitution and establish permanent borders, and stop genociding palestinians. I suggest permanent borders around those for Judeah in Christ's time...that seems fair.

Re-conquistas claim Texas, New Mexico, Arizona,,,Kali...is their land from God....they want it back, too!!

Christ never said or made God a real estate agent.

..TM7


  Well, TM;
   Yep ! We've heard those same remarks from.... Yassir Arafat, Usama Bin Ladin, the terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center & the Pentagon.  We heard that same complaint from the terrorists who slaughtered an olympic wrestling team in Munich in 1972,  from those who murdered more than 250 Marines in Lebanon, from the Ft Hood traitor/murderer the bombers of the Khobar towers, the Kenyan embassy and the USS Cole..to say nothing of the other 16,700 odd other terrorist and mad bomber attackers since 9/11   
        So it must be true; reasonable people like that wouldn't lie..would they ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2011, 05:02:59 AM »
I don't think anyone answered BB's question concerning the Jews.  When God made a promise to the Israelites (Jews), it was forever.  So, even though they do not at this time accept Christ as Savior and Messiah, the promise concerning the land is still valid.  Also concerning his people (Jews).  Now I believe the Jews will realise who the real Jesus is during the Great Tribulation. 

Also, Jesus said the temple in Jerusalem would be torn down within a generation of His death and resurection, it happened in AD70 by the Romans.

Jesus also said that Jerusalem after this would be in the hands of the Gentiles for a season, and would return to the Jews in the latter days.  When the new Temple is built in Jerusalem, Jesus will return shortly thereafter.

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2011, 07:06:58 AM »
yellow. You clearly know nothing about Gods word, the Bible, or his plans for our future. You really need a better camoflaged bait. POWDERMAN.
 :o :o :o :o :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2011, 12:14:54 PM »
Farmboy:
Quote
Jesus came to save all nations and people, not just Israel or the Jews.

That and the fact that the word 'jew' really is a modern word (circa 1800), never in the Bible...but simply means a person from Judeah.

The Jews were the descendents of Israel’s son Judah.  They returned to the land of Israel after a few years of captivity in Babylon.  So, the land was named Judea after the man named Judah.  Then later the people from Judea were called Jews.  Remember history starts and the beginning.  The beginning can be hard to find.
A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.   John F. Kennedy

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under" -Ronald Reagan

“So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause.”  Padme Amidala

Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2011, 12:25:20 PM »
Farmboy:
Quote
Jesus came to save all nations and people, not just Israel or the Jews.

 Not only could the lost tribes be Christians and jews, but most likely are islamics, too.


I doubt any  of the 10 lost tribes turned to Islam.  The Assyrians reported them disappearing into the caucus mountains.     About the same time the people West of the caucus mountains reported a large group of people coming out of the mountains and moving West.  Because they came out of the caucus mountains they called them Caucasians. 

Then they moved West from the caucus mountains.  If you want to find them follow the clues given by Israel in Genesis chapter 49.  If God keeps His promises (I believe he does) they are now powerful nations.  I found a few of them.  Unfortunately I lost my notes on this when my hard drive crashed about twenty years ago.

Genesis 49
Jacob Blesses His Sons
 1 Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.
 2 “Assemble and listen, sons of Jacob;
   listen to your father Israel.

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.   John F. Kennedy

"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under" -Ronald Reagan

“So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause.”  Padme Amidala

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2011, 06:31:40 PM »
yellow. You clearly know nothing about Gods word, the Bible, or his plans for our future. You really need a better camoflaged bait. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o

That may be - I don't know near as much as I used to think I knew, and make no claims of expertise in the areas you mention - do you? Anyhow... what is the main thing, the important thing, to know about Gods word, the Bible, or his plans for our future? I'm hoping it's that Jesus came to redeem us and that He loves us, and there is more to life than what we're seeing in this world.

Am I even close?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline tsalam

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2011, 04:39:01 AM »
Here's some great quotes from our "moderate" muslim neighbors in America.



 
  Congressman King: Subpoena the Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America (AMJA)

By Andrew Bostom and Al-Mutarjim - Pajamas Media - March 1, 2011


Despite opposition from the usual alphabet soup of Muslim Brotherhood offshoot “advocacy” groups in the U.S., Congressman Peter King is forging ahead with planned mid-March hearings on what he terms domestic “Muslim radicalization.” In a December 19, 2010 Newsday editorial Congressman King cited these eminently reasonable concerns as justification for the hearings:

As I became more immersed in attempting to unravel the radical Islamic threat to our nation and our civilization, it became more and more obvious to me that the moral myopia of Long Island’s Muslim leaders and their apologists in the media was the rule — and that there were few exceptions. Federal and local law enforcement officials throughout the country told me they received little or — in most cases — no cooperation from Muslim leaders and imams …. I also know of imams instructing members of their mosques not to cooperate with law enforcement officials investigating the recruiting of young men in their mosques as suicide bombers. We need to find the reasons for this alienation.

We believe direct cross-examination of clerics from the Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America (AMJA), including a frank discussion of their public “fatwas” (Islamic religious rulings), is essential to the congressman’s critically important goal of understanding Muslim radicalization in America.

The AMJA mission statement maintains:

(The AMJA was) founded to provide guidance for Muslims living in North America. … AMJA is a religious organization that does not exploit religion to achieve any political ends, but instead provides practical solutions within the guidelines of Islam and the nation’s laws to the various challenges experienced by Muslim communities.

A report in The Muslim Observer published October 21, 2010, highlighting AMJA’s “seventh annual American conference of imams,” confirms that the organization is accepted as such by the mainstream American Muslim community. AMJA and its recent “training” conference for American imams were described in these banal terms:

The organization AMJA (Assembly of Muslim Jurists of America) has a list of scholars associated with it which stretches from Al-Azhar University to Virginia’s Open University, and back across the ocean to the professors at Saudi universities. Its website, amjaonline.com, provides fatawa on many issues and promises 24-hour access to scholars who can give legal opinions on the issues people face. AMJA focuses on providing fatwas to Americans, and believes it is able to provide culturally appropriate fatwas although many of their scholars are not American–because they have some American scholars and because of the technological ties that bind AMJA’s American scholars with those abroad. AMJA just had, in Houston, its seventh annual American conference of imams, and two local Michigan imams attended, namely Imam Musa of Bloomfield’s Muslim Unity Center, and Imam Ali of MCWS. Mr. Sadiqul Hassan of AMJA explained that “the event was the 7th annual imam workshop.” Mr. Hassan said that AMJA is “a fiqh council basically,” with “scholars who live abroad and inside the U.S.; we have experts in different fields to educate about life in the U.S. — fatwa are based on life in the U.S.”

Notwithstanding this mainstream acceptance, including uncritical endorsement of its recent seventh annual American conference in Houston (October 15-18, 2010) to train American imams, AMJA has issued rulings which sanction the killing of apostates “blasphemers ” (including non-Muslims guilty of this “crime”), or adulterers (by stoning to death), and condone marital rape and female genital mutilation . Moreover, AMJA, despite some equivocation, has also issued a blatantly anti-American fatwa directed at U.S. troops and their mission, which was deemed an “occupation.” Indeed, as AMJA cleric Katem Al-Hajj explained in a 23 page 2007 fatwa forbidding U.S. Muslims to work for the FBI or U.S. security services because of the ostensible harm these institutions cause Muslims, Muslim minorities in non-Islamic countries are “subject to man-made laws, which Islamic law does not recognize, either fully or in part.”

AMJA — consistent with modern fatwas published by Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, president of the International Union for Muslim Scholars (IUMS), and other prominent, mainstream Muslim clerics in Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, and Malaysia — has mandated lethal punishment for apostates from Islam. These specific rulings on so-called “apostasy” from Islam were issued by AMJA in 2006 and 2009:

Dr. Hatem al-Haj 2006-04-17 As for the Sharia ruling, it is the punishment of killing for the man with the grand Four Fiqh Sharia scholars, and the same with the woman with the major Shari`ah scholars, and she is jailed with Al-Hanafiyyah scholars, as the prophet, prayers and peace of Allah be upon him, said: “Whoever a Muslim changes his/her religion, kill him/her”, and his saying: “A Muslim`s blood, who testifies that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, is not made permissible except by three reasons: the life for the life; the married adulterer and the that who abandons his/her religion.”

Dr. Main Khalid Al-Qudah 2009-01-02 Under the authority of the Muslim state, the People of the Book have the right to stay on their belief without being compelled to embrace Islam. But if one of them has embraced Islam, it would not be acceptable from him to go back to his original religion. The same rule applies to those who are born into Muslim families. According to the Islamic Law, they cannot commit apostasy.

Dr. Main Khalid Al-Qudah 2009-04-10 As for the second one, the “people” in this hadith means either the apostates who had become Muslim and then retreated to disbelief thereafter, or the polytheists who do not attribute themselves to any divine religion. This second possible meaning has been mentioned in Imam Al-Nasa’i’s narration: “I have been commanded to fight against the polytheists until they … ” In Islam, neither of these categories of people is allowed to remain on their religion. The fact that there is no compulsion in religion does not negate the other fact that someone who has embraced Islam cannot change his mind afterward and embrace polytheism.

Germane 2006-2009 AMJA rulings also sanction hateful attitudes towards non-Muslims, and the murder of those — including non-Muslims — who “blaspheme” Islam’s prophet Muhammad:

Dr. Main Khalid Al-Qudah 2007-07-22, on “Unbelievers,” i.e. non-Muslims: Our belief is that Islam is the final divine religion, supersedes all other divine religions, and that all other religions are abrogated by the prophet hood of Mohammad PBUH. In another words; no one has the right to stay on his/her Christianity or Judaism after the prophecy of Mohammad PBUH. Based on the above, if any one from the people of scriptures has received the message of Islam clearly, yet, insisted on his belief, then he is — from an Islamic perspective — a disbeliever. Our doctrine is that paradise is granted for all original Muslims, and for those who embraced Islam after acknowledging the prophecy of Mohammad PBUH. Meanwhile, we believe that hellfire is granted for the disbelievers, which include anyone did not believe in the prophethood of the messenger that he/she lived during his/her life. This includes anyone that received the message of Islam, and passed away before embracing Islam.

Dr. Salah Al-Sawy 2009-01-21, on “Blaspheming” Muhammad, the Muslim prophet:

(F)or those scholars who say that repentance of a person who insults Allaah or His Messenger shall not accepted, mean that repentance does not lift up the set punishment for cursing and insulting the Prophet, i.e., execution. Because the Prophet is the one who was actually wronged and insulted and he is no longer alive, therefore, he is not alive to practice his right to forgive him (the blasphemer) for what he did. Also, no Muslim is ever is entitled or authorized to forgive on the Prophet’s behalf.

Additional AMJA rulings validate stoning adulterers to death, and uphold the notion that marital rape is not a crime:

Rendered by Dr. Hatem al-Hajj, June 22, 2006  — Question: “I am married but recently being away on a business trip, I happed to go to a adult club where I came in close contact with a dancer. We touched each other and kissed but there was no actual intercourse involved. I remain fully clothed and she had her top off. Is this act considered zina punishable by pelting? Please clarify. I shouldn`t have commited this act of sin and am ashamed of it.” Fatwa (Islamic Legal Ruling): “All praise be to Allah, and may his peace and blessings be on the last and best prophet and messenger, Muhammad.  Since you are ashamed and you have repented sincerely, Allah is all forgiving, so don`t loose hope in his mercy and forgiveness. The act you have committed — as you appear to know — is an offensive sin, and it is a form of fornication, as the Prophet (May Allah bless him and give him peace) indicated that the eyes comit fornication by looking … etc. Yet, it is not the absolute zina punishable by al-hadd. (The prescribed punishment of zina, which is stoning in the case of a married man). The later must involve intercourse. May Allah protect you, and save your deen and honor. Allah knows best.”

Responding to the specific query: “Is there a such thing as Marital Rape?” AMJA issued fatwa #2982 :

In the name of Allah, all praise is for Allah, and may peace and blessing be upon the Messenger of Allah and his family. To proceed: For a wife to abandon the bed of her husband without excuse is haram (forbidden). It is one of the major sins and the angels curse her until the morning as we have been informed by the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). She is considered nashiz (rebellious) under these circumstances. As for the issue of forcing a wife to have sex, if she refuses, this would not be called rape, even though it goes against natural instincts and destroys love and mercy, and there is a great sin upon the wife who refuses; and Allah Almighty is more exalted and more knowledgeable.

AMJA rulings also support the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM), which the United Nations has called “a dangerous and potentially life-threatening procedure that causes unspeakable pain and suffering.” Fatwa #1639  from Dr. Hatem al-Haj justifies the horrific practice, saying:

Some extremists from the west and their devout followers in the Muslim world like to brand all circumcision as female genital mutilation (FGM). For those, we say, why is male circumcision not MGM? Male circumcision is widely practiced in the west. Yet it would be considered by the Chinese MGM (Male Genital Mutilation).

The benefits of male circumcision are beginning to be more recognized in the medical societies, even though still contested by a few. Fifty years ago, no one knew that male circumcision has medical benefits. The same could be true with female circumcision. They may figure out the benefits of the practice in fifty or five hundred years.

A concordant fatwa issued in Arabic (translation by Al-Mutarjim) on the website of the secretary-general of AMJA and the chief member of its Resident Fatwa Committee, Dr. Salah Al-Sawy, declares that FGM is “an honor” for women:

But for the woman, the purpose is the benefit that it has in lessening her lust, which is a wholesome request. There is no harm in removing it. In short, female circumcision is an honor (which) does not rise to the level of a duty, in clear language. Stated another way, it is neither forbidden nor required.

Another Arabic-language fatwa (translation by Al-Mutarjim) from Dr. Al-Sawy leaves open the possibility for offensive jihad against America and the West, as soon as Muslims are strong enough to do so. When asked whether “the Islamic missionary effort in the West … to the point where it could take advantage of offensive jihad,” Al-Sawy ruled:

The Islamic community does not possess the strength to engage in offensive jihad at this time. With our current capabilities, we are aspiring toward defensive jihad, and to improve our position with regards to jurisprudence at this stage. But there is a different discussion for each situation. Allah Almighty knows best.

Finally, it is of grave concern that AMJA, as an American organization, offers only grudging and conditional support to the fundamental notions of acquiring citizenship in, and swearing allegiance to, the U.S. and our Sharia-antithetical governing legal system. Responding to the query: “Is acquiring an American citizenship lawful or prohibited?” AMJA issued fatwa #77223:

As for optionally obtaining citizenship of a non-Muslim country it is definitely prohibited without a doubt, moreover it could be a form of apostasy or main means leading to apostasy because willingly accepting the laws of disbelievers and obeying it without any valid excuse or enforcement, or ignorance is considered a nullifier to Tawheed and Islam, as long as the proof has been established upon this person and the matter and its consequences are as I clarified. As for obtaining citizenships in light of circumstances of Muslims today who are residing outside the lands of Islam — on the condition that they do not accept indefinitely the law and legislation of that country and being indefinite belonging to the nation of the non-Muslim country so that they become loyal to all their allies and an enemy to all their enemies — and obtaining the citizenship is considered a required means in order to organize the affairs of Muslims who already live there while ensuring fulfilling vows and agreements between them and host countries, and exists due to urgent necessities and needs and this Muslim kept his loyalty to Allaah and His Messenger, then it would not be farfetched to say that it would be permissible.

Given these odious, if unabashed public rulings, it is incumbent upon Representative King and his committee staff to subpoena (if necessary) the AMJA clerics who have issued them. We believe that publicizing and elaborating the “rationalizations” for such Islamic rulings by these clerics — authoritative representatives of mainstream, institutional Islam — will afford critical insights into the radicalization of American Muslims.

For the fully annotated article, please click here:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/congressman-king-subpoena-the-assembly-of-muslim-jurists-of-america-amja/

Article printed from Pajamas Media: http://pajamasmedia.com


 
 

Offline tsalam

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2011, 05:18:07 AM »
More facts on whose land Israel it.

The Jewish People's Right to the Land of Israel
The "Mandate for Palestine" & the Law of War

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, United States Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and the European Union Foreign Affairs Chief Catherine Ashton became victims to the 'Occupation' mantra their own organization has repeated over and over in their propaganda campaign to legitimize the Arab position.

Continuous pressure by the "Quartet" (U.S., the European Union, the UN and Russia) to surrender parts of the Land of Israel are contrary to international law as stated in the "Mandate for Palestine" document, that in article 6 firmly call to "encourage ... close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes." It also requires, under Article 5 of the Mandate to "seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of the government of any foreign power."

Any attempt by the World Leaders to negate the Jewish people's right to Palestine - Eretz-Israel, and to deny them access and control in the area designated for the Jewish people by the League of Nations, is a serious infringement of international law, and as such - illegitimate.


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International Law - The "Mandate for Palestine"
The "Mandate for Palestine" an historical League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right under international law to settle anywhere in western Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered in international law. Fifty-one member countries - the entire League of Nations - unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:

"Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country."

On June 30, 1922, a joint resolution of both Houses of Congress of the United States unanimously endorsed the "Mandate for Palestine":

"Favoring the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.

"Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled. That the United States of America favors the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which should prejudice the civil and religious rights of Christian and all other non-Jewish communities in Palestine, and that the holy places and religious buildings and sites in Palestine shall be adequately protected." [italics in the original]



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Law of War - Arab Unlawful Acts of Aggression in 1948
Six months before the War of Independence in 1948, Palestinian Arabs launched a series of riots, pillaging, and bloodletting. Then came the invasion of seven Arab armies from neighboring states attempting to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state in accordance with the UN's 1947 recommendation to Partition Palestine, a plan the Arabs rejected.

The Jewish state not only survived, it came into possession of territories - land from which its adversaries launched their first attempt to destroy the newly created State of Israel.

Israel's citizens understood that defeat meant the end of their Jewish state before it could even get off the ground. In the first critical weeks of battle, and against all odds, Israel prevailed on several fronts.

The metaphor of Israel having her back to the sea reflected the image crafted by Arab political and religious leaders' rhetoric and incitement. Already in 1948 several car bombs had killed Jews, and massacres of Jewish civilians underscored Arab determination to wipe out the Jews and their state.

6,000 Israelis died as a result of that war, in a population of 600,000. One percent of the Jewish population was gone. In American terms, the equivalent is 3 million American civilians and soldiers killed over an 18-month period.

Israel's War of Independence in 1948 was considered lawful and in self-defence as may be reflected in UN resolutions naming Israel a "peace loving State" when it applied for membership at the United Nations. Both the Security Council (4 March, 1949, S/RES/69) and the UN General Assembly (11 May, 1949, (A/RES/273 (III)) declared:

"[Security Council] Decides in its judgment that Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter ..."


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Arab Unlawful Acts of Aggression in 1967
In June 1967, the combined armies of Egypt, Syria, and Jordan attacked Israel with the clear purpose expressed by Egypt's President: "Destruction of Israel." At the end of what is now known as the Six-Day War, Israel, against all odds, was victorious and in possession of the territories of Judea and Samaria [E.H., The West Bank], Sinai and the Golan Heights.

International law makes a clear distinction between defensive wars and wars of aggression. More than half a century after the 1948 War, and more than four decades since the 1967 Six-Day War, it is hard to imagine the dire circumstances Israel faced and the price it paid to fend off its neighbors' attacks.


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Who Starts Wars Does Matter
Professor, Judge Stephen M. Schwebel, past President of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) states the following facts:

"The facts of the June 1967 'Six Day War' demonstrate that Israel reacted defensively against the threat and use of force against her by her Arab neighbors. This is indicated by the fact that Israel responded to Egypt's prior closure of the Straits of Tiran, its proclamation of a blockade of the Israeli port of Eilat, and the manifest threat of the UAR's [The state formed by the union of the republics of Egypt and Syria in 1958] use of force inherent in its massing of troops in Sinai, coupled with its ejection of UNEF.

"It is indicated by the fact that, upon Israeli responsive action against the UAR, Jordan initiated hostilities against Israel. It is suggested as well by the fact that, despite the most intense efforts by the Arab States and their supporters, led by the Premier of the Soviet Union, to gain condemnation of Israel as an aggressor by the hospitable organs of the United Nations, those efforts were decisively defeated.

"The conclusion to which these facts lead is that the Israeli conquest of Arab and Arab-held territory was defensive rather than aggressive conquest."

Judge Sir Elihu Lauterpacht wrote in 1968, one year after the 1967 Six-Day War:

"On 5th June, 1967, Jordan deliberately overthrew the Armistice Agreement by attacking the Israeli-held part of Jerusalem. There was no question of this Jordanian action being a reaction to any Israeli attack. It took place notwith�standing explicit Israeli assurances, conveyed to King Hussein through the U.N. Commander, that if Jordan did not attack Israel, Israel would not attack Jordan.

"Although the charge of aggression is freely made against Israel in relation to the Six-Days War the fact remains that the two attempts made in the General Assembly in June-July 1967 to secure the condemnation of Israel as an aggressor failed. A clear and striking majority of the members of the U.N. voted against the proposition that Israel was an aggressor."


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Israel Has the Better Title to the Territory of What Was Palestine, Including the Whole of Jerusalem
International law makes it clear: All of Israel's wars with its Arab neighbors were in self-defence.

Professor, Judge Schwebel, wrote in What Weight to Conquest:

"(a) a state [Israel] acting in lawful exercise of its right of self-defense may seize and occupy foreign territory as long as such seizure and occupation are necessary to its self-defense;
"(b) as a condition of its withdrawal from such territory, that State may require the institution of security measures reasonably designed to ensure that that territory shall not again be used to mount a threat or use of force against it of such a nature as to justify exercise of self-defense;
"(c) Where the prior holder of territory had seized that territory unlawfully, the state which subsequently takes that territory in the lawful exercise of self-defense has, against that prior holder, better title.
"... as between Israel, acting defensively in 1948 and 1967, on the one hand, and her Arab neighbors, acting aggressively, in 1948 and 1967, on the other, Israel has the better title in the territory of what was Palestine, including the whole of Jerusalem, than do Jordan and Egypt."


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"No legal Right Shall Spring from a Wrong"
Professor Schwebel explains that the principle of "acquisition of territory by war is inadmissible" must be read together with other principles:

"... namely, that no legal right shall spring from a wrong, and the Charter principle that the Members of the United Nations shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State."

Simply stated: Arab illegal aggression against the territorial integrity and political independence of Israel, cannot and should not be rewarded.

Professor Julius Stone, a leading authority on the Law of Nations, stated:

"Territorial Rights Under International Law.... By their [Arab countries] armed attacks against the State of Israel in 1948, 1967, and 1973, and by various acts of belligerency throughout this period, these Arab states flouted their basic obligations as United Nations members to refrain from threat or use of force against Israel's territorial integrity and political independence. These acts were in flagrant violation inter alia of Article 2(4) and paragraphs (1), (2), and (3) of the same article."

Thus, under international law Israel acted lawfully by exercising its right to self-defence when it redeemed and legally reoccupied Judea and Samaria, known also as the West Bank.

Legalities aside, before 1967 there were no Jewish settlements in the West Bank, and for the first ten years of so-called occupation there were almost no Jewish settlers in the West Bank. And still there was no peace with the Palestinians. The notion that Jewish communities pose an obstacle to peace is a red herring designed to blame Israel for lack of progress in the 'Peace Process' and enable Palestinian leadership to continue to reject any form of compromise and reconciliation with Israel as a Jewish state.
 

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2011, 05:45:10 AM »
I don't think anyone answered BB's question concerning the Jews.  When God made a promise to the Israelites (Jews), it was forever.  So, even though they do not at this time accept Christ as Savior and Messiah, the promise concerning the land is still valid.  Also concerning his people (Jews).  Now I believe the Jews will realise who the real Jesus is during the Great Tribulation. 

Also, Jesus said the temple in Jerusalem would be torn down within a generation of His death and resurection, it happened in AD70 by the Romans.

Jesus also said that Jerusalem after this would be in the hands of the Gentiles for a season, and would return to the Jews in the latter days.  When the new Temple is built in Jerusalem, Jesus will return shortly thereafter.

 

    DD;
   You have it right and you answered rightly (IMO) and in the opinion of nearly all the born-again Christians TM claims are "Zionized". More appropriately, we are "Lionized" (by the Lion of the tribe of Judah).. ;) :D
   Yes, according to Christian doctrine, they need Jesus just as much as everyone else...but that land and promise will always be theirs.  Some promises of God are conditional (i.e. 'if you do this, I'll do such and such for you'). 
    This promise by God was an UNconditional one by God..no man can change that ! Don't take my word for it..one can read the Scripture and parse every word if they wish !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2011, 05:50:40 AM »
yellow. You clearly know nothing about Gods word, the Bible, or his plans for our future. You really need a better camoflaged bait. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o

That may be - I don't know near as much as I used to think I knew, and make no claims of expertise in the areas you mention - do you? Anyhow... what is the main thing, the important thing, to know about Gods word, the Bible, or his plans for our future? I'm hoping it's that Jesus came to redeem us and that He loves us, and there is more to life than what we're seeing in this world.

Am I even close?


 YT;
   IMO...The good news is that Jesus came to redeem us, He did and was resurrected.  He will return..possibly very soon...it behooves us that we have made a personal contract with Him  before we die...or He returns..  If you haven't, you ought to do so today !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2011, 07:38:57 AM »
TSALAM. Thanks for the history lesson.
IG. Good advice. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline tsalam

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2011, 07:42:57 AM »
Powderman, you are welcome. Sometimes it is hard to find facts in the posts of some people:)

Offline powderman

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2011, 10:18:02 AM »
TSALAM. I've noticed that facts have no affect on those supporting islam and their cult. Their hatred for Israel is too great. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline tsalam

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2011, 12:56:26 PM »
Powderman, you are exactly right my friend but I wanted to show the truth to those others who may not know it so they won't believe the ones who post the lies and muslim propaganda.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: The obamination says, we will rebuke Israel.
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2011, 01:09:11 PM »
tsalam, it is nice to see a bit of truth cast amognst our resident antisemites lies.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.