Hmmm, what to do..375JDJ or...

[hunt4570]

  Dilema... I'm not getting any younger, and had my right shoulder rebuilt last year...I have a 375JDJ in a 23 inch carbine contender and I'm not sure my shoulder will like to shoot it...so...I want a reasonably long distance gun (2-300 yds) for Deer or elk, probably nothing larger and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. I have the 375JDJ barrel, dies, brass, ect...do I just trade it out with someone for a pistol barrel, or find something else in a carbine barrel that will get the job done...and if so, what caliber would do the job without beating my shoulder as hard?    Ideas, suggestions??  Thanks..

[Slowpoke Slim]

How about a 30-30 AI carbine barrel, or a 309 JDJ barrel? Pretty close to a 308 win ballistics. Should work for your situation.

Then sell me your 375 JDJ carbine barrel (I already have dies, etc)

 

[hunt4570]

How about a 30-30 AI carbine barrel, or a 309 JDJ barrel? Pretty close to a 308 win ballistics. Should work for your situation.

Then sell me your 375 JDJ carbine barrel (I already have dies, etc)

 

  I'd love a 309 JDJ...just a bit pricey for me.And depending what I end up doing, I might sell the Barrel...Its in about perfect condition, one of TC's offerings (not a rechamber) with a brake...We'll see what I decide..You don't have a nice 309 JDJ to trade me do you?

[Hopalong7]

      A saw, Dremel tool, and a file(or any decent gunsmith, if you prefer)can turn the barrel you already have into what ever length pistol barrel your heart desires.  I'm not a fan of TC's new(G-2, if you will)carbine barrels, but they sure make great project foder.  I've already "converted" both of the end extremes...a 17HM2 and a 45-70 and are quite happy with them both now.  Visions of a 16 1/2" 375JDJ full bull pistol barrel dance through my mind each night.  I'm sure someone is about to say that I've now voided my life time warranty...and that's true, but in a span of 38+ years and a big bunch of barrels, with only one minor exception, I've never called on that warranty on a barrel yet .
Walt

[rdmallory]

+1 45/70

You can load it as mild or wild as you want.

Mine kicks more like a 20gauge then a rifle.

Doug

[kynardsj]

If you're a big fan of the 375 JDJ barrel you have why not put a good muzzle brake on it ?

[Slowpoke Slim]

Hunt,

No, I don't have a 309 JDJ barrel. And honestly, if I did, I doubt I would get rid of it.

Sorry.

Hey Hopalong,

Here's a couple of pics for you...














It's a 16" SSK barrel.

Glad I could help (if you could call torturing you "help")

 

[hunt4570]

      A saw, Dremel tool, and a file(or any decent gunsmith, if you prefer)can turn the barrel you already have into what ever length pistol barrel your heart desires.  I'm not a fan of TC's new(G-2, if you will)carbine barrels, but they sure make great project foder.  I've already "converted" both of the end extremes...a 17HM2 and a 45-70 and are quite happy with them both now.  Visions of a 16 1/2" 375JDJ full bull pistol barrel dance through my mind each night.  I'm sure someone is about to say that I've now voided my life time warranty...and that's true, but in a span of 38+ years and a big bunch of barrels, with only one minor exception, I've never called on that warranty on a barrel yet .
Walt

  Eds has a couple pistol length 375 JDJ's...I just might call and work out a trade with him..was kind of wanting to keep a carbine though as this is my only one and already have several pistol barrels.
 

[hunt4570]

+1 45/70

You can load it as mild or wild as you want.

Mine kicks more like a 20gauge then a rifle.

Doug

  Yep, already have a 45/70 in a 14" length..

[Hopalong7]

Slim, Thanks Bud, I needed the "help".  She is a purty thing...especially in the pic where she's wearing the little yellow bikini.  The 375JDJ IS the one long-time gaping hole in my barrel collection.  I've bought two 375Winnies with the idea of rechambering them but made the mistake of shootin' them first and now can't bring myself to change'em.  One's a S-14, the other a 24" Encore.  Oh well,  I know JD needs some more of my money .

Hunt, I DO have the 309 and want a 375, BUT, I ain't partin' with the 309...sorry .
Walt

[hunt4570]

<<<Hunt, I DO have the 309 and want a 375, BUT, I ain't partin' with the 309...sorry .
Walt>>>
 
   Oh..thanks Walt... what a tease!! 

[Hopalong7]

   'least I didn't show you a picture of it...like somebody....
Walt

[hunt4570]

Well it never too late, go ahead and show me..

  Scott

[Hopalong7]

Scott, Back to the serious side(well a little, anyway) and your original post.....I really can't imagine that anything capable of shooting elk @ 2-300yds in a shoulder stocked Contender carbine would not be a little "wicked" in the recoil area.  Not so, at least to me, in Contender handgun configuration.  I shot my first Contender 45-70 as a carbine almost 25 years ago...3 shots fired...none since.  That was back when I was young, dumb and tuff.  Now that I'm old, dumb and tender I still continue to shoot it as a hangun on a regular basis.  Now I do shoot Encore with 18" Katadon barrel and a 22" Handi in 45-70 and enjoy....but not the Contender with shoulder stock.
Walt

[hunt4570]

  Thanks, Good point, I can fire my 14" 45/70 without issue (in moderation of course). So just maybe I should think pistol bbl in this 375 JDJ..seeing as how you won't trade me for your 309 JDJ!! If I go that way do you think there is any benefit to going with a 16" over a 14" bbl? A couple things.. I'm real used to my 14 inchers, and the bandolier I already have will fit a 14' scoped gun.I love the looks of the 16 (I have a 45/410 in that length) but I'm not sure the extra 2 inches will help...a bit of extra velocity vs the extra weight and cumbersomeness..don't know if its worth it.

  Scott

[Slowpoke Slim]

   'least I didn't show you a picture of it...like somebody....
Walt

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Scott,

I think if you had a good fitting custom buttstock for your carbine, a 30-30AI or 309 JDJ would be doable, with a good brake. I also think either one of those chamberings, in a 22-24" full bull barrel, shooting 165 gr partitions (or 180's in the JDJ), would be good elk medicine. I would not wish to shoot my 375 off of the standard TC buttstock. It just doesn't fit, and would hammer me pretty good. I'm still looking for a good custom carbine buttstock for mine, with a longer length of pull, and enough comb height to get a proper cheek weld with a scope. I think the factory TC stock would really whack your face big time, more so than the whack to the shoulder.

As far as the 14" or 16" pistol length goes, I have both. Most of my pistol barrels are 14" (I also have a 12" 35 Rem), and I confess I prefer that length. Most of the time when I'm shooting my 16" JDJ, I have the "range wood" on it. A large walnut grip, and the flat walnut fore end in the top picture. With it set up this way, the extra 2 inches in length really makes no difference in "feel" to me. When I set it up with the smaller TC grip set, I can tell that extra 2 inches is out there (balance wise). I don't know if that extra length is really gaining me anything (except on paper of course), as I've only had the one, and don't have a 14" version laying next to it to try and compare. I doubt there'd be much difference in recoil, or velocity, but maybe in balance. I don't care for shooting the JDJ with the TC grip set, as it doesn't fit my hand well, and makes the recoil more of an issue than a proper fitting grip does.

I think if I was going to have a 375 JDJ barrel made to order, for hunting, I'd go with the 14" barrel. Also, as much as I'm against brakes for hunting, I think this one would be the exception, and I'd order it brake'd. Only I think I'd go with a "fish gill" style brake instead of the radial brake.

[hunt4570]

  Yes, sitting on my Bowers rest I can't imagine the 2 inches would make any difference, in my holster and in the woods I would think it would, and probably not enough benifit to compensate... oh and speaking of compensating (good segeway right? ) I don't have funds available for a custom barrel with the fish gills, if I did I'd probably just order a 309..Starting to lean towards a 14" barrel with the factory brake......still on the fence though..thanks..

[Hopalong7]

      My tolerance for longer barrels has grown over the years, at least in Contender pistols.  I loved the original 10" barrels and thought TC had lost their mind when they introduced the S-14(sure would'a saved a lotta money had I held onto that thought).  Then came the 16.25" and now, I'm have a couple of 18" er's that I use totally as handguns.  The acceptance of the 14" barrel of course was due to the much improved performance of bottle neck cartridges....my first was a 223....then 30-30.....then.....not to sure why I ever went with anything longer than that though.  Oddly, at the same time, my preference in revolver(mostly Blackhawks)barrel lengths has shortened from 7 1/2" to 5 1/2"
Walt

[Slowpoke Slim]

As far as hunting carry goes, I've been told by an old Contender shooter that a sling is the only way to go. Now I've not tried a sling myself, I've always used a holster of some sort. I have a bandoleer style now. It still seems "wrong" to me to carry a handgun on a sling, but I trust the source of the advice, and plan on giving it a whirl.

Maybe on a sling, the extra couple of inches will not matter anymore?

I may have a sling kit coming off of another forum, too soon to be sure, but if so, I'll fool around with it on all 3 barrel lengths and let you know what I think about it.

[hunt4570]

  I tried a sling a couple of times and didn't like it. I dont like the way it flops around when you are ducking under branches, or crawling under a stand of cedars or the like.I like a little more positive control...

[Ladobe]

Scott, Walt, Chris...

You gents labor too much over JDJ caliber choices for your Contenders... 

In your tool box do you only have one Straight Slot and maybe one Phillips screwdriver?   

When it comes to the JDJ's you should know that variety is the spice of life because it allows you to match the cartridge to the current situation.    And with the right selection you can hunt anything on earth with them from varmints to dangerous game.

No doubt all of my JDJ experience is with SSK handgun barrels... I never owned a JDJ in a carbine/rifle length.   Never saw a need for one because you can shoot just as far just as accurately with a JDJ handgun with practice.    All of my SSK barrels were 14", and all of my Super Bower barrels were 14" or 15".   Those lengths balance nicely when scoped and provide plenty of length to produce acceptable velocities in the JDJ's and SB's.   To me none of them were punishing to shoot as handguns and I commonly did long range and hunting sessions even with the heavy hitters.     I settled on the 257, 6.5, 309 and 375 JDJ's, and owned 2 or 3 of the first three and 4 of the last one over the years.

My last battery of JDJ's were bought as a set from a collection picked up by Ed.   Unfortunately two of the barrels had brakes - the 257 a SSK Arrestor and the 375 a Mag-Na-Port.  Both unnecessary to me, but that's just the way they came.   But with these four there was nothing I couldn't hunt.   The 257 and 6.5 both did double duty for varmints and predators, the 309 was the antelope and mule deer barrel and the 375 was for anything bigger, and for target shooting.   They are all gone now thanks to the medical issues, but were my 4 favorite JDJ's out of the many I had owned over the years.   Only picture I have of all of them together is one taken right after I got them and before the scopes had been mounted.

[hunt4570]

<<<In your tool box do you only have one Straight Slot and maybe one Phillips screwdriver?>>>

   TOOLS I got... lots of them, but then they (some at least) don't cost $300 each!

   I wish I had the barrel selection you have had over the years, most contender folks probably wish that. I have to do with a few select barrels that I can afford...after all I have a Harley I have to feed, and 2 girls in college.
  I'm starting to lean towards a 14" 375 JDJ barrel instead of this carbine barrel. It (kinda) fills the gap between my 30/30 and 45/70 barrels, would probably rather have the 309, but there's that $$ thing getting in the way again, I figure the 23" to 14" will be close to a wash seeing as I have the dies and such allready..

[Slowpoke Slim]

Scott, Walt, Chris...

You gents labor too much over JDJ caliber choices for your Contenders... 

In your tool box do you only have one Straight Slot and maybe one Phillips screwdriver?   

Heck Larry, sometimes I'm lucky to find ONE screwdriver in my tool box.

 

[Ladobe]

   TOOLS I got... lots of them, but then they (some at least) don't cost $300 each!

   I wish I had the barrel selection you have had over the years, most contender folks probably wish that. I have to do with a few select barrels that I can afford...after all I have a Harley I have to feed, and 2 girls in college.
  I'm starting to lean towards a 14" 375 JDJ barrel instead of this carbine barrel. It (kinda) fills the gap between my 30/30 and 45/70 barrels, would probably rather have the 309, but there's that $$ thing getting in the way again, I figure the 23" to 14" will be close to a wash seeing as I have the dies and such allready..

Chris,
You can get a TC factory 375JDJ for $300, probably a rechambered TC barrel and maybe even a well used SSK barrel for that, but not one of these top drawer SSK barrels.    SSK's Contender barrels start at $400-$450 new now days, and the last four I had would be from $600-$750 new now days depending on if or which brake it had.   SSK barrels retain their value much better than TC factory barrels or even other 3rd party custom barrels, making them not only a better barrel in use but also one that your investment or even a profit can be made from when resold.   Why IMO they are the best investgment up front even at the higher cost.   IOW, buy an SSK barrel, use it to your hearts content, take care of it and sell if for a profit.   So you were actually paid extra to use it.   Sounds like a win/win all the way to me.   BTW, when I resold those 4 barrels I got almost 50% more than I paid for them, and still gave the buyers a good deal when compared to current new prices.

I had the long list of barrels (and frames) because I gave them priority over the years when I could afford them without delaying my other firearms buys.   Don't forget my first Contender was bought in early 1968, so I had a lot of years using them to acqiure so many.    They didn't ever take anything away from my families needs or wants, and I had many other interests and toys that got a fair chunk of any extra money as well.   I feed two Harleys and 3 ATV's, a long list of muscle cars and RV's as well over the years.   Bet my current Corvette costs a bunch more to own and operate than your Harley.   I did only have one son to put through college though. 

A 375JDJ to fill the gap between a 30-30 and 45-70?   Can't see that logic.   When I dug my 45-70 barrel out, dusted off the cob webs and sold it I felt no loss at all because the 375JDJ's had become my go to handcannon barrels for anything.   But as they say, to each his own.   

[hunt4570]

A 375JDJ to fill the gap between a 30-30 and 45-70?   Can't see that logic.   When I dug my 45-70 barrel out, dusted off the cob webs and sold it I felt no loss at all because the 375JDJ's had become my go to handcannon barrels for anything.   But as they say, to each his own.  

  I agree with you on that, maybe not to fill the hole because it would probably do the job of those 2 barrels.It would be a bit overkill (pun intended) for most basic deer hunting though don't you think? On the other hand, it would do everything the 45/70 would do but I'm not sure I could get rid of it though, I'd have to change my name to "hunt375JDJ" and it just doesnt have the same ring to it!

  Scott..

[Ladobe]

Scott - the 375 could be loaded down to better fit the game, including deer, but the 30-30 can't be loaded up to do what the 375 does as a matter of course.   Same with the 45-70... it can be loaded down, but IMO is not as versatile as the 375.   The 309 just screams "deer", like the 338#2 screams elk and the 375 anything bigger, including dangerous game.   Heck, I even shot varmints and predators with my 375's now and then just for another excuse to shoot them.    Not being one to shoot any of my barrels below their potential is why I had so many... each had its primary purpose and most could easily do double or triple duty as well.

[hunt4570]

   Ok guys, maybe you can help me out here...I'm really thinking about selling this whole setup and starting over from scratch...So first I'd like to hear your thoughts on value on this thing..23" bull barrel from TC, not a rechamber and just about perfect shape with a brake,a set of RCBS dies, about 100 pieces of brass, and a half a box of factory ammo..

  Then...Ideas on caliber , pistol or carbine,I have a 30/30 and 45/70 in 14"... I'd like to get a caliber for mainly deer but with a little more range than my 30/30..
 
   Thanks 
   Scott

[Ladobe]

Value?   But I'm sure somebody who wants a cheap way into a 375JDJ carbine would buy the setup as a package.

As far as a replacement you kind of need to decide whether you want to go with a handgun or carbine/rilfe length first.   Sounds like you can handle more recoil from a handgun than a carbine, but are you proficient enough with a Contender handgun to "up the range"?.    Uping the range around here in the west where shots are commonly long means from 300 to 500 yards.    Takes really knowing your barrels ballistics and being capable with it, but the handguns can be very effective for those long shots.     

Easy answer to up the effective range of the 30-30 in either a pistol or carbine length and not the recoil enough to notice over the 30-30 would be something like a 6, 25 or 6.5 Bullberry Imp or a 270X30-30.  All very easy wildcats to form and reload for based on the 30-30 case, all flatter shooting than the 30-30 and capable of clean kills on even big deer.   A 7X30 might be a good choice for you as well if you want to shy away from wildcats or go with a carbine length for less out of pocket cost.

If you do decide on a handgun length, the 309JDJ will give you more range and shoot heavier bullets while doing it.   If you want to add elk, moose, bear, etc to the list the 338JDJ#2 or 358JDJ (or even the 375JDJ) is not enough more recoil to worry about.

For a couple of years I wanted to build a 15" 30 Merrill barrel for my Contenders.   It's a very accurate cartridge based on the strong 225 Winchester case that would have been a very low recoil deer cartridge with plenty of range for even western hunting, yet would be also capable on elk at fairly long ranges.   Another project that never happened... this one because Jim wouldn't help me out with chambering or dies.    So my 30 Bower Alaskan (that I mostly shot IMSHA with) remained my top 30 barrel (even over the 309JDJ's I owned).

With upwards of 250 cartridge choices for the Contender, the skies the limit (and maybe your check book).   

[hunt4570]

  I've been looking through my reloading manuals and that 7x30 waters is looking pretty interesting, not much below the 309 in range and energy, still has right at 1000 ft lbs energy at 300 yds, enough for deer and at the end of my shooting range probably.Back when I lived in the world I had a range set up in the back yard and used to shoot 4" & 8" square steel plates at 250 yards with the 30/30 in a 14".Shot lots of deer in the 100-150 yd range, a few longer but most of my opportunitys were in that kind of range..Again I don't really want to spend the coin for a full custom job, hard for me to justify that kind of cost for how much I use it.