gland lure?

[fishdaddy]

i just got some bobcat gland lure how do i use it in the hole with or without bait?should i use a call lure above the set?

[Asa Lenon]

Hole sets are generally meant to make the animal think some smaller animal has buried somethig edible there. Call lures generally have a food base with glands and musks added so no bait is needed with a well formulated call type lure. Gland lures are better served at sets without holes as scent post, blind scent and most flat sets don't simulate a food/hunger situation but rather a territorial response. When gland lures are used at hole sets they wouldn't be complete in my opinion without usine a chunk of bait down in the hole and the gland lure around the upper inside rim of the hole.

[fishdaddy]

thanks

[trappnman]

unless this is 100% about cats, then I disagree. I've seen countless spots where canines have killed animals, and never do I see where the take little pieces, and bury them for later eating. Go to any red fox den, and tell me what you see-

Canines go to holes because of one thing- little critters they eat, take refuge in such holes- add in the natural curiousity of canines to odors, hide that odor out of sight and the attraction of holes is obvious.

gland lures, call lures, "food" lures are ALL curiosity lures the way they are formulated.

does taking the glands from 100 coyotes, mixing them all together, adding various oils and odors to them- tell the canine anything about territory? if so- what?

I just don't believe that certain lures are for this set, certain lures for that set- a good gland lure works as well at the hole, as at a flat set





 

[RdFx]

Ive watched yotes and red fox bury small pieces of prey and cover up.  It is amazing how good they can cover up what they buried with thier nose!!  I believe a hole besides being a home for  small prey is also a hole that a canine dug something up to eat later...... also reason why hole isnt covered up is prey or piece of meat is gone......now another canine checks it out becuase of "smell" or to check to see if past canine forgot something in hole.... this is my take  of  dirt holes ect.   

[fishdaddy]

when i was a kid something killed one of our chickens my stepdad tracked it in the snow and found where something burried part of it he set a trap there and next day had a gray fox

[Asa Lenon]

Well said RdFx and Fishdaddy!

[trappnman]

sure, exceptions happen-

I seriously know a farmer that set a dls spring trap wired to a hay baler, uncovered, =- had a coyote in 2 days


I'm out in te field almost evey day during spring and summer- I see constant, constant coyote and fox sign- I see constant instances of where they eat scavaged food, and caught food-

they ain't burying nothing.

the EAT it, or carry it back to the den-

nor saying they NEVER bury stuff- but the point is- does a "dirthole" imitate cached food?

in all my expeirence, it DOES NOT.

[fishdaddy]

you think that the reason they are carrying it back to the den in the spring and summer they are feeding their pups? i find it hard to believe that if you have caught all the canines that you say you have caught that you have never seen them bury anything.

[trappnman]

I say I caught? LOL

and no, in the close to 2000 coyotes I've caught, not once did i see any of them quickly burying something as I drove up....................  

but more to the point, I'm in the hayfields from April to late October- just about every day- and I toss 1000s of gophers in these fields- I see countless times, where coyotes eat these gophers & play with these gophers. and never have I seen one buried.  

and I trap around countless compost/dead piles- and again, I see where they EAT and PLAY- but again, no holes with morsels of meat in them.

and have many carcass piles out and about- many i pass by each week a couple of times- and again- I see what i see.

think about it- do you really think an animal the size of a coyote, is going to take bite sized pieces, and bury a piece here, a piece there? no- canines gorge when feeding (when hungry) and return until the food source is gone (and long after if a big source, but thats another story)
 
I HAVE seen many times coyotes digging- and what does their digging look like? a trapper made dirthole? not hardly.

I'm not saying coyotes don't dig holes- that would be absurd- what I AM saying ,is that trappers dirtholes, made with the thought you are going to "imitate" a coyote-simply doesn't add up when looked at compared to a co yotes habits Coyotes dig, look into holes for FOOD- holes equate resting spots, burrows, dens and even yes catches made by SMALLER animals-

and back to the original point-a coyote IS going to investigate holes/with odors- and the more bells and whistles you give him, the longer he is going to stay its why remakes work so well- the entire set is satutated with GLAND odors, whether from urine or feces or just plain body scent

[RdFx]

Steve i can see your analogy and  makes sense.  On my experience when i saw yote burying something on edge of cornfield and woods, i watched till he or she was done and when yote left i  walked over .  Only reason i found  the spot yote buried food was the darker color of dirt from dried dirt surrounding it.  I dug up  buried item  ( which was a whole chipmunk).    Now only reason i can think yote buried it  was;  belly full, just ate, no pups to feed or whatever.   I agree with you on the so called dirt holes some trappers make for canines dont look like what a wild canine leaves when digging a hole.   What makes trapping interesting is differant ideas or opinions of trappers what happened or what works.  They all work sometime  ( look at farmer  setting uncovered trap by  calf catching yote) , but do they work regularly.   Sure would be nice if trapping made  trappers rich BUT then everyone would be  doing it and we (trappers) wouldnt have  some of  the piece and quiet  ( if you can call it that) in the outdoors

[trappnman]

lee, i agree with your post-

[Asa Lenon]

I have never heard it said or ever have I seen where anyone has written that a dirthole set was to imitate where a coyote buried some food. A dirthole set is meant to possible make a coyote think some smaller animal has buried something edible there. My Dad used to say that even minute amounts of skunk musk in a lure made a hole set seem more natural and allayed suspicion as it might imply that a skunk buried something there.

[trappnman]

what does a skunk bury?

[Asa Lenon]

Doesn't make any difference Steve what if anything skunks bury. A coyote smells a food based call lure or a chunk of bait down a hole with fresh sand, smelling of a hint of skunk which is completely natural to coyotes in most regions and he is likely to associate that food odor with a skunk. Remember, coyotes can be wary and educated about certain things but they aren't smart enough to say 'hmmmmmmm, do skunks really bury things' !  My Dad based this idea of a hint of skunk musk serving as a suspicion remover by testing a lure without any skunk and the same exact lure with skunk added so subtly that it couldn't be detected and found the tracks showed direct approachs without hesitation when the skunk was added and a lot of hedging around sets when the skunk wasn't added. Subsequent testing that I performed over the years proved to me to concur with the earlier findings.

[trappnman]

I agree 100% Asa-- and I've used your lures and they work very well.

yes, skunk smell in itself, seems to be a universal attractant.

my main point through all of this, was that in my opinion, the hole is more to hold the odor than to imitate something cached

if you give him odors, and a unseen origin of those odors, his natural curiosity, nature takes over.