Author Topic: fn fal vs. AR10 (Read 3767 times)

simplicity · « **on:** December 22, 2010, 07:09:06 AM »

I've been thinking about getting a 308 semi. and I know the ar10 platform somewhat well and was also considering a fn fal. Anyone give me any mayjor gripes about the fn fal? how do they normally stack up against the ar 10 as far as accuracy goes? Any input would be great. Thanks

Mnswede · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2010, 05:02:00 AM »

FN FAL is a Battlerifle, AR 10 will be more accurate and have after market parts to customize your weapon to your taste. FN FAL does have options to customize, but it is expensive. How do I know by experience? I own three FN FAL's, and own two DPMS 308s and two 5.56mm rifles.

ruppster · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2010, 07:28:35 AM »

You didn't list it, but I have a heavy barreled FNAR that I really like. It is very accurate, but spare mags are pricey. I also like M14s.

simplicity · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2010, 08:44:49 AM »

I was thinking about the FNAR but I just liked the feel of the AR10's better. I've also never cared for the looks or the feel of a Browning BAR either, though I do hear they shoot good (browning bars). As far as the M1A goes, it was my white whale for the longest time I finally bought a brand new loaded M1a and I couldn't have been more dissapointed with a gun in my life. it showed up with a broken rear sight (the apeture) and springfeild immedietly sent me the wrong one off the bat and finally did get the correct part. The gun shot great for the first 3 rounds out of the mag and went to crap right away to a nice buckshot pattern on a 100 yard target. I talked to Springfeild they told me I need to bed the stock and possibly replace the barrel. UUUMM are you kidding me $1700 for a gun and I have to bed it out of the box to get it to shoot and have to rebuild the stock every few hundred rounds to keep it shooting good wasn't what i thought a good gun was supposed to be. AKA m1a's to me are like harleys yuh always gotta be turning a wrench on them to keep them running (I went through that boat to). Enough on that I did end up buying a dpms oracle in 308 for my self for christmas and I can't wait to get out to shoot it.

ruppster · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:27:07 AM »

Not to be smart, but I said I have & like a M14. Not a Springfield M1A, different rifles in my book. My Springfield is 30-06.

kynardsj · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:00:03 AM »

A friend of mine bought a Cetme and a FNFAL. Both went bang every time you pulled the trigger but the FNFAL was more accurate with the iron sights. He sold the Cetme and will hang on the the FN. It's a big, heavy rifle but it's very reliable.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:53:45 AM »

Shame about the M1-A but I have heard others say you need to change out alot of parts to make the new ones shoot . The old one I had was TRW parts and was good out the box , it had a NM bbl.
The FAL has a good record also and the gas can be adjusted if needed. DPMS AR 10 they say are accurate . How could ya go wrong

demented · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2011, 08:06:32 PM »

I hunt deer with my 21" FAL. With factory federal blue box (whatever its actually named?) 150gr it does under 1.5 inches for three shots @ 100 yards. It will keep a full 20 inside three inches even with a hot barrel. My 17" FAL will do a bit better so I'd say both are good to at least 300 yards. As a bonus, neither of these rifles has ever stuttered with over 1000 rounds each fired from them. I'd still like to have a DPMS .308 AR to play around with though.

His lordship. · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2011, 06:51:59 AM »

simplicity...I know what you mean on the M1A. I seriously thought about getting one, I like the M14, this rifle was made for me, but the fact that Springfield has a monopoly on this rifle made me vervous. If you don't like how they treat you, where are you going to go if you want a legal M-14?

Same with the Harleys, always acting up, my ex-neighbor bought one, he said it was constantly being repaired, he got rid of it. I owned one for 6 months, junk, bad metalurgy, sold it at a loss.

With the AR platform you have alternatives, lots of competition out there. I bought my first AR-15 two days ago, shot it yesterday, a Smith and Wesson M/P model, nice gun. I was looking at the Century made (rebuilt) FN too, too many used parts and have heard of some complaints online.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2011, 04:54:21 AM »

There are other outlets for M1-A's , some with forged recivers . Try Fulton Armory ,Norenco ( used guns) and maybe more .

MK ULTRA · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2012, 09:44:43 AM »

Quote from: ruppster on January 21, 2011, 07:27:07 AM

Not to be smart, but I said I have & like a M14. Not a Springfield M1A, different rifles in my book. My Springfield is 30-06.

Not to be smart either but I'm real sure all of the M14's were .308's and not 30-06. The M1 was 30-06 and Springfield made them.

Better go check your M14 with an empty 30-06 cartridge and see if the bolt closes. If not then it's a .308.

I hope it's registered since it is a select fire weapon.

Have a nice day.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2012, 10:15:34 AM »

The Springfield M1A is a semiauto M14. It is a 308. Centme damages the brass if you reload. I have an L1A1 and it also goes bang everytime. Little on the heavy side, but rugged.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2012, 10:24:01 AM »

Yup, I got 3 or 4 FALs and they are a great rifle.

As an aside, and this is from memory from when I was on a 7.62 Battle Rifle kick many years ago, there is only a very limited number of M-14's (maybe only one) legally in civilian hands. The ATF even confiscated the ones that were reassembled and sold by a company using welded up demilled receivers...

Bugflipper · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2012, 06:44:06 PM »

I'm in the same boat, never owned an ar10. I have fals and hk91s. Both are kind of close with accuracy potential. Neck sized only my best fal hovers around an inch give or take. That's after working on it a bit and finding the best accuracy load. The hks, again worked over a bit, will stay around the same. The problem with them is they eat brass, so no neck sizing only. Stock the hk and fal would go about 1.5-3" depending on the rifle. I am looking into either building an ar10(most claim they can be less than an inch stock) or a keltec rfb.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2012, 07:39:16 PM »

Funny Richard mentioned his "7.62 battle rifle kick", as I went through a similar, expensive "kick". 3 FAL's, a HK-91, a CETME (early stainless steel cast receiver Century Arms model), 2 Springfield M1a's, and an Armalite AR-10.

A couple thoughts- The HK design is hard on brass, but reliable. My 91 would group 2 inches with ammo it liked. My scoped CETME right at an inch with Federal Match. Paid $499.00 new for the 91 back in 1982. Sold it for $1900.00 about 5 years ago. Still have the CETME, as it shoots way better then it has any right to.

None of my FAL's (1 inch pattern, 2 metric) would do better then 2 inches, and did not handle well, in my opinion. Wanted to like them, but just didn't.

My AR-10 (a recent heavy barrel target model) is a solid 1 inch, and sometimes under gun that has been totally reliable thru several thousand rounds. Great trigger, and has a large number of aftermarket accessories available.

My Springfield Armory M1a's (a National Match, and a standard issue) also have very good sights, triggers, and have been reliable with at least 4 thousand rounds between them. Both were scoped, and would shoot an inch, or slightly under, all day long with ammo they liked. Any gun can be a "lemon", but based on my experience, as well as that of several friends who shoot the snot out of theirs, I'd have to say a lot of the bad press you see about this model is based on Internet rumor and lack of real experience with this weapon. Not all shooters are 1 inch shooters...

As of this writing I have three 7.62 battle rifles left in my safe - The CETME with a Burris 3x9 scope in an claw mount, The AR-10 with a Leupold 2.5x8 with Burris Tac rings, and the standard M1a with a Burris 3x9 in an A.R.M.S. mount. Three different flavors, but all dead nuts reliable and accurate rifles.

In the end, it really depends what feels good in your hands. Finding a CETME with the accuracy mine shows is a crap shoot, not to mention the brass issue if you reload. I would look hard at the AR-10 or the M1a, two totally different rifles that accomplish the same goal, with the nod going to the AR-10 if you plan to accessorize.

larry

MK ULTRA · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2012, 01:02:15 PM »

this is a great site.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2012, 07:51:10 AM »

having had an M1 Garand, M14 (non springfield m1a), L1 A1, a Colt AR15, one parts built "retired Airforce gunsmith" AR15 and several generic AR15s, if I ever get a hankering for a semi-auto 7.62x51 rifle it will be a civilian M110.

Our military had its pick of semi-auto sniper system 7.62x51 rifles. The M14 was never in the running. They chose the big brother of the AR15. Good enough for me.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #17 on:** September 18, 2012, 02:07:47 PM »

Is the M110 the same as a civilian AR-10? I assume it is.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2012, 04:33:10 PM »

Hi Dude. Yes it is but in full M110 set up.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2012, 04:58:19 PM »

What is the full M110 set up? For civilian I know it isn't full auto.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** September 19, 2012, 02:42:13 AM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on September 18, 2012, 07:51:10 AM

having had an M1 Garand, M14 (non springfield m1a), L1 A1, a Colt AR15, one parts built "retired Airforce gunsmith" AR15 and several generic AR15s, if I ever get a hankering for a semi-auto 7.62x51 rifle it will be a civilian M110.

Our military had its pick of semi-auto sniper system 7.62x51 rifles. The M14 was never in the running. They chose the big brother of the AR15. Good enough for me.With all due respect this has not been the case in the war on terror as M-14's have been rebuilt and sent into battle along with some M1-A's built to be used by marksman. BTW choice with regard to the govt. and military in general is not always preceeded by BEST.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #21 on:** September 19, 2012, 03:30:38 AM »

Yep, I think the army has a stockpile of left over M-14's. Don't know about the air force. A lot of M1 Garands were reworked and made into M-14's back in the 50's. I've heard both the older M-14's and AR-10's have been used by snipers and special forces, same with their bolt action Remintons. The M-14 was just an evolutionary path from the M1 Garand using the downsized 308 vs the 30-06 for more firepower. The Brits and their commonwealth used the L1A1 or versions thereof. Germany went with their HK-91 (Centme). So, so many platforms, but which is the best? I went with L1A1 because of price and price of used mags. It is heavy, but so is the M-14 or M1A. Is the AR-10 lighter than these other two? I think in the long run as things go, the AR-10 will win out with civilians, because of easy barrel change like the AR-15. They are already making 338 federal barrels, and a 243 barrel I think can be made. Someone will eventually make a 358 barrel. All of the 308 derived cartridges can use the same AR-10 magazines. I recently saw a complete lower AR-10 at a gun show for about $275. Don't know how much the uppers and bolts cost, but that interchangeability on the same platform is a plus.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2012, 02:39:28 PM »

The use of the M14 platform in the sandbox was to get the 7.62x51 in the field as quickly as possible. This will not precede the production of new M14s.

While government and military may not in general be preceded by 'BEST' the M110 WAS the winner of a competition to find a new semi-automatic 7.62x51 sniper rifle.

We should also remember, the M14 did NOT win the competition for a rifle to replace the M1 rifle without some outright cheating supposedly by the military establishment. What became the FN-FAL would have won but the T44 was given access to the military cold weapon lab to set up their gas system, the T48 was not allowed that luxury. Our military decided to go with the M14 since it did win the cold weapons test (with help) and it was said the M14 could be built on the M1 machinery, which was a lie and we had many millions of .308 cal bullets left over from the M1 rifle program.

The M14 is just a slightly improved M1 with a box magazine. Contrary to Pattons opinion, there are better battle implements than the M1. Well, I will give him that it was the best battle rifle of its day.

If the M14 was so good, why did no other country adopt it? Over 80 nations adopted the FN-FAL.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2012, 11:58:16 PM »

ive owned 3 cetmes. two were real good guns. All three would shoot into about 2 inch at a 100 yards with loads they liked. Problem with them is brass damage unless loaded real light. They werent designed for the pressures of factroy 308 ammo and ive had case head seperation on the first firing with factory ammo and brasss. they do much better with military brass which is usually a bit thicker. All that said my ar10 will hands down out shoot them, is dead reliable and is very easy to find and stock spare parts and mags for. All the cetmes are gone now.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2012, 06:25:08 AM »

Cetme and HK91 owners, if I recall correctly, don't they kick pretty hard? Again, if I recall correctly doesn't the FN-FAL (L1-A1 in my case) have relatively mild recoil?

It has been over 20 years since I had any major caliber battle rifle in my inventory and my memory is befuddled since my long hospitalization.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2012, 08:14:01 AM »

My L1A1 doesn't kick that bad. If I get another one, I think I will get a DPMS (Remington) in 308. DPMS or Remington makes a 243, 260 rem, 7mm08 and a 338 Fed barrel change out for theirs. Their magazines using MagPul magazines, I think are interchangeable with the metric L1A1. Rock River makes their's to use the L1A1 magazines. Problem is, mags are now about $20-25 for used ones. I paid $5 each for mine several years ago. MagPuls I have seen on the internet for $18. Springfield M1A's are also in the $20 range. I think you need at least 10 mags for a 200 round capability.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2012, 11:40:25 AM »

Thanks Dixie Dude! Yes 200 rds. seems like a good load out.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #27 on:** October 20, 2012, 06:13:14 PM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on October 17, 2012, 06:25:08 AM

Cetme and HK91 owners, if I recall correctly, don't they kick pretty hard? Again, if I recall correctly doesn't the FN-FAL (L1-A1 in my case) have relatively mild recoil?

It has been over 20 years since I had any major caliber battle rifle in my inventory and my memory is befuddled since my long hospitalization.

Most of them do. In a lot of cases the cheaper parts kit guns just use the stock rollers that are worn out. You can put oversized rollers in and get the bolt gap back into spec. That sheds more of the energy and makes it a delayed blow back like it is supposed to be. One set up right wont kick any more than any other semi 7.62x51. And is usually quite a bit softer than a bolt action. The problem is very few are set up correctly, so most of them feel more like a 7mm mag than a 308 (no recoil pad on plastic stock). With a rubber limb saver slip on and a bolt that is timed correctly they kick about like a 22-250. Just enough to knock your sight picture off if using a scope. But not enough to really notice the recoil. This fellow usually has oversized rollers in stock. http://www.robertrtg.com/g3.html

Bigeasy · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:48:50 AM »

As far as recoil goes, my CAI model CETME with the provided muzzle brake is the softest shooting 7.62x51 I have shot. It is also by far the loudest. None of these 7.62 battle rifles are heavy kickers, considering their weight and semi-auto action.

Post WW2, most large countries developed their own 7.62 battle rifles, and actively marketed them to the rest of the world, something we did not do at the time. The M-14 was not fielded until the late 1950's, and replaced with the M-16 in the mid 1960's. They were issued to several allied countries, such as South Korea and South Vietnam during their time in active service.

By the way, any one looking for HK-91 / CETME magazines, Cheaper Then Dirt has been recently selling clean, slightly used German HK-91 aluminum 20 round magazines for .99 cents each. I ordered 20, and all were very clean and most in almost new condition, 1960's / 1970's production. They fit my CETME with out issue.

Larry

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2012, 12:05:06 AM »

Ive owned cetmes and now own a ar10 and to tell you the truth dont think one kicks a bit more then the other. If a 10plus lb 308 is considered hard kicking to a guy hed best take up another hobby. Niether has even the recoil of a sporter weight 243.