Help me pick a 357....

[kc5rkg]

I am saving my pennies to buy a 357.  I want to use it for carrying around in the woods while walking or whatever.  I want something with a 4-6" barrel, something thats durable and reliable and hopefully fairly accurate.  I am thinking of something like a Ruger GP100, Taurus Model 66, Taurus Tracker 627, or Taurus Model 608.

Which of these do you like?  What others would you reccomend?

Thanks
scott

[Graybeard]

OK everyone if you aren't already seated please sit down. I don't want anyone fainting and falling and hurting themselves. Everyone seated? OK.  

Considering all the current problems Taurus seems to be experiencing with both quality control and customer service I WILL NOT recommend one. Instead I will recommend you get a Ruger. See I told ya to be seated when ya read that. GB recommended a Ruuuugggggeeeerrrr!  :eek:

I'd get the Bisley single action myslef and in fact may do just that next year. Still the GP should do OK. Just be prepared for a trigger job when you get it.

GB

[Redf150]

Well GB Im glad I didnt go off and get a Taurus last week :eek:
If i would have read that I would have crapped my pants.
I decided to get a Smith Model 60 .357.

[Graybeard]

Last week I still wasn't convinced that the increasing number of complaints I was hearing were really valid. I guess I was still chalking them up to folks just bad mouthing a brand they hadn't really tried.. But after buying to bad ones in a row. Guns not fit to shoot right out of the box? Well I guess my eyes are getting opened. Still it took the attitude shown by the Customer Service Chief this time to really turn me against them. He really could still maybe win me back by doing right by me and thus convincing me that even if a customer gets a bad one they will stand behind it. That is really all I ask of a company, to stand behind their products when all don't go right.

I sure wish you hadn't told me you were buying S&W tho. How soon folks forget the evils visited upon them it seems.

GB

[kc5rkg]

Graybeard,

How long has Taurus been having problems?  If I found a good used Taurus a year or two old would it be of better quality than a new one?  MY dad used to have a Taurus M66 357 and a M44 44mag, and both were excellent shooters.   Thats why I am seriously considering the Taurus.  Thanks for your help!

Scott

[Graybeard]

How long has Taurus been having problems? If I found a good used Taurus a year or two old would it be of better quality than a new one?

I guess that's a difficult if not impossible question to answer. Being only one person I've seen but a small spectrum of the Taurus production and naturally my opinions are colored by what I see and experience.

I've been reading of some pretty serious problems on forums like this since Taurus started importing guns into the US. The two I had long ago from the early years sure were inaccurate but otherwise looked and functioned OK as I recall. Then they came out with the RB in .454 Casull and most of the early reports on forums were negative but my local dealer was selling them like hot cakes and swore to me he wasn't getting any back or hearing any of the buyers complaining. This is what caused me to buy one and it has been a real winner. Then the RB480 was obtained and it is even better than the .454. Superb really. Then next the two Titanium guns and all was still well with them. This really had me singing the prasies of Taurus guns and I'd personally seen nothing bad from them since the early production days. Reports on forums such as this were turning around and most of the reports seemed positive. But still those drastically negative posts just kept popping up from time to time and I had to wonder. Were they factual reports of bad quality coming out of Taurus or just sour grapes from someone who really didn't like the imported guns and preferred some other brand. More disturbing were the reports I heard of poor customer service when a problem did happen.

So all of this brought me to the next purchase. I had seen the total titanium model 460 being hyped as soon to be available with 6.5" barrel and really wanted one. So I called and asked about availability. Was told they had them and were ready to ship. I ordered one. My dealer said sorry but his distributors say they aren't available. More calls to Taurus and more assurances they do have them in stock. I get this from 2-3 folks I spoke with who should know. More calls to my dealer and he makes more calls to his distributors with the same result.

So I call again and ask for a certain individual I'm told is the person telling the distributors they aren't in stock. Turns out he really is apparently the ONLY person in house who has a clue what they really have in stock. It wasn't available and he didn't have a clue when it would be.

So I order a 12" Model 44 in .44 mag as this is another I'd been wanting also. When it gets here it is junk. Barrel looks like an old black powder gun left without cleaning. Bullets key hole at 25 yards. Back it goes but at Taurus' expense. This impresses me some that they are willing to pay to get it back. After a bit longer delay than I'd like they tell me a new one is on the way. I'm again impressed. All is well between me and Taurus again.

So now I'm told the Model 460 6.5" I've been wanting really is in stock and ready to ship. I order one. This is the single worst one I've had out of box from anyone. It comes to me with the little orange/red plastic disk out of place laying in box. There is a ring around the cylinder. Timing is grossly off. Action feels like it has sand in it. When cocked and ready to fire you can turn the cylinder. I see what I still believe is a manufacturing defect in the top strap of the frame. Looks like a big chunk of the frame is about ready to pop out leaving a deep gouge.

I call and even tho the customer service manage is out I twist the arm of the lady I speak with to again pay to return the gun to them. I get the distinct impression that's NOT normal procedure. They put the gun on the bench to begin checking/repairs or whatever on a Wednesday. On Friday of the following week I'm told it is FIXED. Fixed I say? How. Silence. He thinks cylinder was replaced but the new one now has a ring also. I ask about the defect in top strap. No one there can see it. I ask for a new gun. I'm told I'm not getting one but will get the same one back. To me it is as it was if the cylinder is still ringed and they've not addressed the defect in frame issue. Dunno. I honestly don't want it back.

So what production time period is safe? I dunno. I wouldn't recommend buying one at all unless you can hold it in hand and work the action and examine it closely to see if any of the defects mentioned exist or any other you can see. Be sure to look down that barrel. If your examination reveals no problems and it locks up tightly I'd say that one likely would be OK to buy.

GB

[kc5rkg]

Thank you for the information!  I try to make it a habit to thoroughly check a gun out before I buy it, new or used!  Happy Holidays everyone!

Scott

[Redf150]

I never paid much atention to all that political stuff anymore they will do what they do, I just send the NRA money every year and write letters to congress, but if the gun shoots well, kills well, and feels good, I will buy it, this country and businesses started going Commie on us a long time ago.
I still might look at a Ruger sp 101 .357. But I had a model 60 .357 4 years ago and liked it so thats why I made that choice.
 

[kc5rkg]

I dont know why I didnt mention this earlier, I guess perhaps because I was on the double action forum  :?: But something like a bisley or a Blackhawk will definitely be considered when making my purchase.  Then I ask myself if I am gonna get a blackhawk why not go ahead and get a .44 especially if I might scope it one day?  Oh decisions, decisions.  

So what do ya'll think?  Do you like something like a blackhawk over a GP100?  If I go that route should I go ahead and get the .44?  

Thanks again everyone!
scott

[Redf150]

Can any one recomend a  Ruger sp 101 for carry or it to dang heavy?
I need to find a .357 revolver, but im starting not to like that modle 60 grip.
Thanks.

[Steve in Michigan]

Buy a stainless GP100. Not only is it cheaper than a Smith, it is much more durable. The 4" barrel is nice, but if you really want to get the most out of the  .357 Mag (especially with 125-grain bullets), go with the six-inch. The GP100 is plenty accurate and with the slide-out cylinder, you don't have to go through the monkey-business of ejecting shells like with the Blackhawk. All the new series blackhawks do not line up the chambers for ejection like the old series did and they are a pain to get out the fired cases. I think that you can also get a no-gunsmith scope mount for the GP100 and again, if you are going to do this, I strongly recommend the six-inch barrel. I also think the Ruger is a better revolver  than any Taurus, but that is just my opinion. the one thing also nice about the GP100 is that it can take full-house .357 loads forever and never have a problem because it is made for it, unlike the Smith k-frames or the Taurus 66. If you positively don't like the GP00, then go with a Smith 686, although in the six-inch, it feels like you have a baseball bat on the end of the frame. I've had a six and four-inch stainless GP100 and with a little tuning, they are one fine revolver and a deal for the price.

[kc5rkg]

Steve,

Do you know who makes the scope mount for the GP100?   I doubt I'm gonna put a scope on the gun I get, especially to begin with, but it is always a possibility for down the road.

THanks

Scott

[Steve in Michigan]

B-Square makes a mount that fits the six-inch GP100. I don't know if maybe Weaver or Aimpoint might make one. The B-Square mount mounts on to the barrel. Check it out as www.b-square.com.  I'm sure, though, you can get it cheaper than on their website. Try Midway or Mid South or Natchez or Cheaper than Dirt for a more realistic price.

Another real advantage with the GP100 is the front sight blade is EASILY changed and takes only a few seconds. I had a Redhawk bead sight on my six-inch for awhile, but it was too large for target shooting so I took it off. I also believe you can buy fiber-optic sights, etc. and they are very easy to change and change back if you don't like them. Try that with a Smith or a Taurus.

A great "at home" tuneup for the GP100 is a Wolff spring and some 600-grit sandpaper. Use the sandpaper to just polish the surfaces a little on trigger and hammer and you can try different trigger return springs and hammer springs from the Woff kit until you get what you want. I used my six-inch for informal target shooting at our club and had the single-action trigger quite decent, at least for me.

[Savage]

I don't know anyone who shoots very much that doesn't do a little trigger work to their revolver, regardless of the manufacturer! If you want a "shooter" get the Ruger, if you want a carry gun get something else. The S&W mdls 36/60 and the Taurus mdl 85 are the only revolvers that are light and compact enough for daily carry. In my opinion anyway.
Savage

[Graybeard]

Savage sez:

I don't know anyone who shoots very much that doesn't do a little trigger work to their revolver, regardless of the manufacturer!

Well you know one now! I've never ever one single time felt the need to work on or have work done on any S&W, Colt or Taurus handgun I've owned. This in spite of firing many thousands of rounds per year and haveing shot competitively for over 20 years in handgun, rifle and shotgun competitions. I've also shot for money many times with many guns outside of normal competition shooting games. On TCs I have work over the triggers of some and on others have merely used the screw adjustment. On Remington rifles I do generally lighten the pull.

GB

[myronman3]

 Then I ask myself if I am gonna get a blackhawk why not go ahead and get a .44 especially if I might scope it one day?  Oh decisions, decisions.  

So what do ya'll think?  Do you like something like a blackhawk over a GP100?  If I go that route should I go ahead and get the .44?  

  if you are considering even the possibility of getting a 44, by all means do so.  you can load light loads out of the 44 that are even easier to  shoot than 357's, and if you dont reload, you can always shoot 44 specials through it for lower recoil.   my friend has a 12 year old daughter who will shoot his smith all day long with these reduced loads... and loves every second of it.

[Savage]

Graybeard,
You mean you don't even put a spring kit in your Smiths? Now I'm impressed! I don't shoot a revolver competitvely, but everyone I know  that does, installs a spring kit at minimum. I do confess to shooting my Kimbers competitvely with factory triggers.
Savage

[Savage]

Chris,
I confess to being a bit of a tinkerer. I am rarely satisified with any trigger right out of the box. Guess that's why Timney, volquartsen (spelling), Wolff, and Ed Brown get so much of my money. I'm going to guess that 100 of our 600 or so club menbers are revolver shooters. I don't recall any of them I have talked to that have not at least installed a spring kit. You don't know how good a trigger can be until you shoot one of theirs! That's the basis for my statement that I didn't know anyone that was satisified with stock revolver pulls. Glad you got a good one, I know there can be a big difference between individual guns.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[Graybeard]

Savage sez:

Graybeard,
You mean you don't even put a spring kit in your Smiths?

Correct. Never have owned a S&W that I felt needed it of the over 200 I've owned. I did once have an S&W 686 with the four position front sight that the trigger with age got "too light" and I had to take it to a gunsmith to make right again but I've not ever seen one I didn't feel was light and nice enough to use as is even for competition shooting. Now I've NEVER shot any games that require double action work.

BTW I was in those days one of the top shooters in the state generally always placing in the top 3 at any match I shot in. I have won tons of trophies.

GB

[Steve in Michigan]

If you do go ahead and buy a revolver, I stongly suggest a Bianchi 5BH (no need for the lined version) for a great holster. It rides quite high and doesn't flop around and stays close to your body. Of  course the leather is first class as well and I think the most important part is that it makes carrying a four or six-inch medium revolver seem a lot easier. A good stiff belt (not Jack Daniels) helps tremendously too.

Also, by the way, I'd buy the .357 and not the .44 just because the medium frame revolvers are just a lot slicker and the .357 is a riot to shoot with good 125-grain jhp bullets. I've got several big bores, but I still like my .357s for what they are.

[Savage]

Graybeard,
Ok, now we're on the same page! The single action pulls on my Smiths are pretty good as is. Heck I have a Security Six that has a passable single action trigger. I too have put a few rounds down range in bulleye competition. The past 20 years or so have been directed more to the action pistol games which are all fired double action with revolvers. Guess that's why I lean more toward single action auto loaders these days! Good luck with your new Taurus!
Savage

[Graybeard]

The only bullseye competition I ever shot in was one season in a league at the local University at the indoor range used by the cadets in ROTC. They opened it up to the general public. We all shot rimfire semiautos. Of about 50 tems entered my team came in 3rd place. I came in 7th place individual for the entire season of it out of maybe 250 shooters. Still have both trophies from that one.

I just never got into any of the blam-blam-blam speed stuff requiring double action. Heck I've nearly worn out DA guns without ever even firing them DA.  

I once owned a Security Six. It is one of the few Ruger guns I've ever owned I really have nothing bad to say about. It was a nice gun really. Dunno what happened to it as that was a lot of years and a few hundred guns ago.

I hope luck isn't needed with the Taurus. I tried being nice the first trip it went down until they told me it was headed back to me more or less just as it came to them. Then I wasn't. This time I didn't even start off nice. I wasn't in that frame of mind. Based on my good experiences with a number of other Taurus handguns I've helped them to sell what has to be numbered in the hundreds of Taurus handguns as I've been one of the most vocal proponents of them. If they don't do right by me on this one I can sure become just a vocal as an opponent. It's all in their hands to decide which. They do understand however that is exactly what's on the line this time around. They either do right or they lose me as friend and gain me as enemy.

GB

[Savage]

As I think you may have mentioned, Taurus may be growing so fast they have lost sight of how they got to where they are today. They are gaining market share rapidly. They are most likely at or near capacity in their facilities. This may be the cause of their recent quality lapses. They should imediately replace a faulty product without question, regardless of who the customer is. A one time buyer has the right to expect the same quality as someone who buys several a month. My voice is small, but I interact with several hundred shooters a year. I would be just as quick to damn, as to praise. I don't do revolvers much anymore, I am down to about half a dozen DAs and two SAs. Have been thinking about a 44spl snubbie though. I have ruled out Smiths and Charters, doesn't leave much does it??
Stay Safe,
Savage

[Savage]

Chris,
I have a hard time letting go of the bad feelings once I feel I have been wronged. I am eager to forgive S&W, but they have got to give me something to work with.
Savage

[L-Roy]

just wondering?  Why rule out the Charter 2000?

[Savage]

L-Roy,
I have had good success with the older Charter Arms revolvers. Not very durable but were satisfactory for the intended use. I was about to order a Charter 2000 Pug in brushed SS, but the Chief where I work ordered one first. When we shot it, neither one of us could keep it on the B-27 target at 15yds shooting single action. Plus the cylinder release wouldn't--------!
You had to force the cylinder open to reload. Just didn't seem like anything I could live with. I tried to get him to send it back to the factory, but he was so disgusted with it he sold it at first oportunity! My dealer doesn't stock them, so they are a special order item, no chance to inspect them until you've bought it. Might have been an isolated incident, but it scared me off!
Savage

[L-Roy]

like an isolated incident, hopefully.

The .44 Spec. that I carry concealed daily has been a pleasure and will group, for me, with wrist rest, at 25 yds, into 6" with moderate loads.

Cylinder latch works as it should.  My only complaint was that its sights were not regulated.  Judicious filing of the front sight brought it to point of aim!  (It shot low with the loads I like.  Heavy bullets!)

I know, its not a target shooter, but it should shoot to point of aim when delivered.  Oh well, it does cost less than $300.00 in stainless.

[S.B.]

If I had my druthers, I'd opt for an older S&W model 27. If carrying is your game, then I'd go with either the 3 1/2", the newer 4" or the 5".  I have a 3 1/2" and a 5", wouldn't part with either. Enough meat to handle any load I want to shoot, forever.

[Gregory]

I'd find a used S&W Model 66 or 686 as a carry gun.  Can't beat a Smith's trigger out of the box.  And if you buy a used one you can't be accused of supporting the poor management decisions of the past.

[daddywpb]

I agree with Greybeard. Rugers need trigger work out of the box, but if you can put a spring kit in yourself, it will help quite a bit. If you have the knowledge to smooth the action up a little, so much the better. Taurus's marketing skills are better than anyone's, but the guns are crap. They look great, but in my opinion, when you start shooting you'll be disappointed. I've never bought one because I've always tried the triggers first. They are horrible. Pull is heavy, creepy and "gritty" as Greybeard described. A shooting buddy of mine had a Taurus .357. I don't remember the model, but we tried to fix the trigger. Even after a spring kit, and some juducious stoning, it was still not shootable. He sold it and bought a Smith. If you want double action, look at S&W or Ruger. If single action will do, look at a Bisley. Good luck.