Author Topic: Sent my T/C 23" bull barrel in 17Mach II in today... (Read 2676 times)

alan in ga · « **on:** December 17, 2010, 02:24:06 PM »

It won't shoot well at all, 1" at 50 FEET with Eley ammo.
Called T/C a month ago and was told to send it in to the NH address. This after my email inquiry was not answered for weeks.
I waited until today to ship it.....days after the intended closing of the Rochester plant was announced.
Hoping for the best....and to get 'something' back!

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2010, 11:22:05 PM »

Hope they fix you up. Eley is all I've put in mine and it is "wicked accurate". At 25yd five shots look like one .22hole.
BTW: I didn't much care for the barrel in factory form, even though it shot great...so I cut and recrowned it to 19"....Oh My!!!!....now I Love it!!!

Walt

alan in ga · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2010, 03:38:38 AM »

I wanted to cut and crown mine [got the lathe and a full set of 0.0002" reamer/crown tool pilots] but there was also 'something' wrong in the very middle of this 23" barrel. A tight patch would let you 'feel' something almost like a buldge, but I don't think it was a bulge. Must be a mis drill when the barrel was first bored for rifling???
Crown was messy, not a good one at all...HOWEVER If I were to do ANYTHING to the barrel I figured it was then 'mine' so, I just called T/C and they said no problem, send it to them. Have not heard anything and barrel has been gone 10 days.
Hoping for a good one to come back to me! I like that little round. I will definately thread the barrel, and might just shorten it as you did. No need for 23" of bull barrel. I DO LIKE the "BULL" barrel [full contour] much better than the tapered carbine barrels.
Will report back here when I get something from T/C.

alan in ga · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:13:13 AM »

nothing yet........

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2011, 07:39:13 AM »

There is no one working in the repair dept. on Friday and dont forget there were two holidays in there to take into acct. I sent a TCR 83 stock in for a replacment and two weeks from mailing I received a new one with a new recoil pad. and also no charge how is that for service but I must admit call back and email is very slow best to call.

Deaconllb

TRM-1 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2011, 10:59:06 AM »

Well I am not fussing about Thompson service as I have had good and bad. But I sent a email back on the second of November about a Omega that belongs to my father. He was hunting and shot a deer and the firing pin bushing including the firing pin and spring flew out of the gun while he was in a tree stand. I received a email back stating the parts were going to be put in the mail. On November 14th I got the parts and they were wrong. I emailed the gentleman back and sent pictures of the gun with the description of the part I needed. He responded back promptly on November 15th that the correct ones would be sent out in the mail again. On December third I emailed him back that I hadn't gotten them and maybe they had been lost in the mail or the order had gotten lost. On December 6th He responded that he would ship them out again. I hadn't gotten them yet. I did call the customer service line the week after Christmas and spoke to a gentleman and explained to him the back and forth and the incorrect parts and he explained to me there had been a change in the firing pin bushings and I needed a new or the old type (Can't remember which) and he would get them shipped out to me and reminded me that no one would be working in the warehouse until after New Years. I was treated very nice in all the communications I had with T/C and I understand that it was a busy time for them with Hunting season and the holidays and I can understand a wrong part Everybody makes mistakes. I feel pretty confident I will get the part and my thoughts go out to the people who are affected by the plant closing. I hate the thought of the people losing there jobs and the people in the community affected by the closure. I haven't had any dealings with S/W But I would have to say T/C will probably never be the same.

Good luck with your barrel.

alan in ga · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2011, 09:52:48 AM »

Called T/C and they said they received my barrel, but it would be 2 or 3 weeks before it gets bench tested as they are backlogged.
Got to thinking, if I shoot up the brick of Eley 17Mach II ammo I have, and get a notion, I DO have a 17 Ackley Hornet reamer and enjoy making small metal chips : )
I already have a CZ 527 bolt rifle in 17 Ackley Hornet but the more the merrier,right?

Encore28 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2011, 03:35:27 PM »

T/C warranty work is staying in NH for now

Encore28

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2011, 01:34:07 AM »

Alan, If you're gonna rechamber the "new" barrel, you'd better do it 'fore you shoot her...this little bugger is addictive. Mine is sittin' right here beside me right now. Soon as daylight comes we're heading out to the tree rat woods together since deer season is closed and Big Red(the head cook and bottle washer around here)says she's outta gravy makin's and it's saturday morning.

Walt

alan in ga · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2011, 02:35:25 AM »

I've got a 500 brick of the Eley and some Hornady remnant rounds. Also got a suppressor if the 'new' barrel is as accurate as it should be. Already enjoy rimfires as a whole and shot a lot of ground squirrels in MT with a CZ 452 17HMR. I've not given the 17M2 a real workout yet so we'll see.
I've shot 6,000 rounds thru my 17Ackley Hornet [CZ 527 bolt rifle], about 500 rounds thru my 17 Mach IV [another CZ bolt rifle], and too many bricks to count of 22LR thru several custom 10/22s. I did take ONE shot/kill at a ground squirrel with a friend's 10/22 in 17Mach II, and thought "gee, that IS more powerful than a 22LR!".
So I'll get the 17Mach II and give it a worthy trial, thread the muzzle if it's 1/2moa capable as it comes back, and it just might stay as it is! I don't have another one. I DID take a 10/22 take off barrel, drill and reline it to 17M2 but sold it. The Redman liner would do 1" at 100 yards with 10 shots! Great in my book! Sold it to a freind that 'had to' have it before I took it out west or did much with it here in Georgia.

alan in ga · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:22:26 AM »

Got a call from T/C Arms about 10 minutes ago.
Said my 17 Mach II barrel WAS defective as determined by the gunsmith [she].
The representative said however there is a problem with a new barrel to replace it, and that is they are OUT of 17 Mach IIs and do not make them anymore. They gave me a choice of 5: 17 HMR; 22 L.R.; 204 Ruger; 6.8 Rem and 45/70 Gov't.
I chose the 17HMR.
New barrel coming to me!
Thanks to T/C Arms.

Ladobe · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2011, 06:13:27 PM »

Alan,

TC had a problem with the 17HM2 barrels right from the get go. Most of the barrels produced were bulging brass when fired. Tim called me and we discussed it at length as he knew I was very heavy into custom 17 wildcat barrels for the Contenders (had 18 at the time I think). Came down to a problem with Hornady's early ammo, and the TC chambers for the 17HM2's. After that as far as I know (Tim retired from TC) they had no more problems.

The 17HMR is a good choice too though, and TC didn't have any problems with them that I am aware of because Hornady got their blow up problems in the Marlin & Savage test rifles solved before they first started selling the ammo to the public. Alot of solving that ammo configuration problem came from Fred at Bullberry, and my doing the field testing for both Fred and Hornady.

Hope the 17HMR works out for you. I love that cartidge. You already know the 17 Ackley Hornet is my second most favoite barrel for a TC Contender out of the way over 200 possible for it. Just as much fun as the 17HM2 and 17HMR if you don't mind making brass and reloading it. I didn't at all until I got my first 3 17HMR's and later 3 17HM2's. There really wasn't a need to do the work for the 17AH anymore for me, and I didn't give up enough range in the killing fields to matter.

Larry

alan in ga · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2011, 07:31:19 PM »

The 17 Ackley Hornet has been a favorite of mine for 10 years or so, after reading about it for 40!
Finally built a few on CZ 527s. My 'one' CZ has just over 6,000 rounds thru it and still grouping into about 1/2" @ 100, only slightly larger than when it was new.
It shouldn't be a suprise that when I got the Contender barrel in 17Mach II, I had the "could always make a 17 Ackley Hornet out of it" thought in mind : )
I wish I had asked the T/C rep one thing: Could I have the "defective" 17 Mach II barrel back also, because I wanted to experiment with it by recrowning it after cutting off a bit of the muzzle. The bore for the last 1/8" was flawed, but also an area about 'mid bore' which could be detected by a tight patch.
I've also taken a CZ 452 17 HMR to Montana several times, and what a sweet rifle, especially the CLIPS because of how easy it is to push fresh ammo into them. The spring is mild unlike CZ centerfire clips. I would keep TWO clips with my CZ 17 HMR, one in my hands, the other in the rifle as we eased around the pastures in a Suburban.
The 17HMR is a round I've had and liked a lot. Still got a few hundred HMR rounds somewhere so the new barrel on the T/C Contender will be fun.

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:32:47 AM »

I hate to hear of the 17HM2's demise. The little round is a honey. I think New England dropped it too(before I got one for my Sportster). When it was intoduced I was already a huge fan of the HMR and my thought was "why bother?". Then I ran across a deal on 23" bull carbine barrel "almost new"....couldn't resist. Shot it a little...and it shot good...but was muzzle heavy and unwieldy to me. I was a little leeary of recrowning a 17 but what the heck(I do my crowns with file, emery cloth and dremel). So I cut it to 19". I had read the comments by Fred Smith and seen a picture or two of Ladobe's. Now I know why!...The balance is phenominal. Shootin' off hand, this old man has a hard time hitting the barn...from inside with the door shut, but this little rifle holds better than anything I think I've ever had...Oh Yeah!!! And the crown?....well the first five shots made only one hole....so it's either pretty good or the worlds worst

Alan it is a shame they didn't give you the old barrel. You could've cut off all the problems and still had one fine pistola.
Walt

alan in ga · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2011, 03:35:35 AM »

Got to thinkin' 'bout it...called TC a minute ago and asked about the old barrel, and the possibility of selling it back to me for a greatly reduced price. She checked and said they would EITHER send my old barrel back OR the new 17 HMR barrel. I said I fully understood and thought I at least needed to ask about it since they are not able to replace with the same cartridge barrel : (
Don't misunderstand me, I KNEW it would not happen but in the circumstance of not being able to replace the same cartridge I thought it was at least worth the asking [talked to same lady that called me yesterday].
Thompson Center has treated me EXCELLENT in all this! I want that understood!
I enjoy the 17 HMR round and as I said have had it before in the CZ bolt rifle [gone a while ago].
However now I'm going to have to figure out what to do with the brick of Eley 17H2 ammo I have....... : )......... : ) .... gee.... wonder how....I'm ...going to solve this... problem : ))
Got a Norinco J-15 that doesn't shoot worth beans [although they usually do]. Also have a Redman liner in 17 cal. HMMMMMmmmmmm!
Can't let all that Eley ammo go stale, can I?

Hopalong7 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2011, 02:37:34 AM »

I wouldn'd worry about it going to waste...I'm sure you'll come up with something. I've not found HM2 ammo around much lately. In my last two recent gun show excursions I only could come up with a total of two boxes, and that was Hornady. The guy from Georgia Arms told me he had a total of 4 and somebody took two of them before he even got set up and I cleaned him out

.
Walt

alan in ga · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2011, 03:13:24 AM »

Ladobe,
My 17Mach II barrel [23" bull T/C] had a funny feeling area right at mid section. A tight patch on jag was the 'tell tell' tool. It was not quite like a 'bulge' but more like the rifling stopped and started. Our bore scope does not fit in 17 bores but I sure would have liked to 'see' what it was. The muzzle/crown area was a mess, circular marks from some tool, and no rifling at all the last 1/8" or so. Nothing a quick trip into/out of the lathe wouldn't fix. As much as I like to 'dial in' bores while in the lathe Trujust chuck [or 4 jaw], I have to admit that some of the live pilot versions of crown cutters work about as well. A friend has a set of 17 cal pilots for his cutter, I believe they are only 0.0002" apart!

Anyway, as much as I would like to have cut back and recrown back where some good rifleing was, I figured it would have voided any replacement warranty that T/C might offer me. So I sent it back in 'as is' condition [from the factory].
Even if I had cut a half inch off to get some 'good bore', it still would have that 'odd' place about mid bore. It's possible that the ok rifling past the 'odd' place could have sent the bullets off accurately, it probably would have bothered me knowing it was 'there' and well, OC has it's downsides : ).

I'll let you know how the HMR barrel does when I get it/shoot it.

Something's going to get lined/barreled to 17 Mach II around here soon...

It's a shame they wouldn't sell me the 17 Mach II barrel, defect and all. It could have been cut to eliminate the 'odd' section at mid point, and made someone a nice 10 or 11" pistol barrel. They scrap piled it : (

Ladobe · « **Reply #17 on:** February 04, 2011, 05:52:41 AM »

Alan,

Hard to say what the "mid section" problem was without a 17 cal bore light, good eyes that know what to look for and some close inspection. But it could have been something really minor to fix, or might have fixed itself with shooting. All new barrels shoot-in to some extent, and since TC's are not lapped that holds especially true with them. Doesn't take much to interfere with a little 17 pill at relatively low velocities, so it might also have been unfixable full length or even recrowned. While TC's QC has been about as good as it gets over the almost 44 years, they did have products that squeaked through with problems now and then. Not just barrels, but also frames for both the Contenders and Encores. Material quality not up to specs, design glitches, dull tools, or machinists who had a hard night beforehand might have been the cause of some of them, and QC let them slip through to customers. I do know that QC was a constant pet peeve of Tim's to prevent it happening, but it still did.

Sending it back to TC "as is" was the right choice. Not because of the crown as I know your abilities on a lathe, but due to the mid section. It would have voided any replacement from them if you had tinkered with it or lapped it.

The 17HM2 is a very good "turn key" niche not easily filled by something else, at least not for the all the types of shooting and hunting I did with them, so I just can't understand the manufacturers backing away from it. If push comes to shove I can help you out (I'll send you a PM).

L.

alan in ga · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:22:23 AM »

Recieved a brand new, test fired 17 HMR barrel back from T/C today.
THANKS YOU T/C! Great service. Hoping there is some good in coming days for you. Not sure what to make of 'the move'!

alan in ga · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2011, 06:17:11 PM »

Here is a fairly close up picture showing the origional crown. Rough, but seeing this let me know it would be "fixable" with some lathe time.
I painted a white "X" to show where the bore and barrel face start/stop. The white blob in the background is the end of a Q-Tip to reflect light for the picture.
No wonder it wouldn't shoot. This crown could never kiss the Vmax "good bye" as it left this bore!
Now however, after about 3/4" was cut off, and a crowning tool spun, we gots 'good bore' and bullets are dropping into the same hole at the 50' target.
Next, onward to 50 and 100 YARDS.

OH, I just did observe that my 17 Mach II is LEFT hand twist rifling, and the same 'type' barrel in 17 HMR is RIGHT hand twist rifling!. Go figure!

alan in ga · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2011, 03:25:43 AM »

OK, barrel shoots like it should. I saw posts here about the best barrel length for 'handling'. What length do you guys like?
I'm considering cutting this barrel back to about 17 or 18 inches and threading for a suppressor I have made for rimfire rounds [22LR]. I think doing away with muzzle report would be worthwhile since I already have the suppressor and lathe work is free.
Suppressor is about 5" long so the cut back to 17" or so seems right.

Ladobe · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2011, 06:55:07 AM »

Hey Alan,

Glad the "new" barrel is a shooter for you.

I worked with Fred early on with 17HMR barrel testing, and in a bull the best carbine length using his stock sets overall was 19"-20" for barrel harmonics and so precision on the Contenders FWIW. Your can will effect the harmonics though.

A 22 can on a 17? Not my choice as it would negate some of that can's advantages. Kind of like the brake I had ordered for my dolled-up Marlin 17VS Hummer years ago. The machinist made it for 22 caliber by mistake and not bored large enough for its barrels diameter, so it never got used (and he never did go back and make the right one for it). Since I stopped shooting all my 22 RF's with my first Hummer and first HM2 anyway, the brake just got religated to storage someplace.

Anyway, keep use posted on the progess...

Larry

alan in ga · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:03:43 AM »

I've heard a few opinions on the sonic 'crack' made by the little boat tailed 17 Vmax bullet. Figured I'd have to just 'do it' myself to find out the straight poop about it. I've been told that smaller than designated bullets for a can still got lots of muzzle noise reduction. I'm going to find out - especially since I already have the permit and can. I'll be sure to report on it.