Stitching groove

[AtlLaw]

I've got some leather craft projects to start on and decided I wanted to try cutting a stitching groove this time.  I thought it might make the product look a little more professional then my "free-hand/eyeball a line" attempts usually turn out.   

Tandy is out of the simple little groover they sell.  What do y'all do to groove a straight stitch line?   

[jcn59]

I  ain't talented enuf to do dat.  Send me a pic of the groover when you find one please.  I use a drill press with a "L" fixture to make the line straight.

[oldandslow]

The groover makes a world of difference in how your stitching will look. You might google Hidecrafters and find the groover. Personally I stay away from Tandy. The new Tandy may be OK but I quit the old one before they folded. It was over the quality and thickness of the leather they sold, not their tools.

[AtlLaw]

I  ain't talented enuf to do dat.  Send me a pic of the groover when you find one please.  I use a drill press with a "L" fixture to make the line straight.

L fixture on the drill press huh...    Sounds like that would work since I sometimes use a press with a nail to punch my sewing holes...  where would one find such a jig?   

You might google Hidecrafters and find the groover.

I did that as you suggested!  Interesting site but not as easy to navagate as Tandy's.  I did find some stuff, including a groover, that Tandy doesn't have.  Thanks for the heads up, I'll probably send in an order today.

Personally I stay away from Tandy. The new Tandy may be OK but I quit the old one before they folded. It was over the quality and thickness of the leather they sold, not their tools.

I didn't know Tandy had changed hands.     I was pretty impressed that I got a handwritten note with my packing slip appologising for the 2 out of stock items.  This was my first order as I normally got stuff at a Tandy store which has just closed.  I was impressed with the CS...  so far.

Now the leather.  I got 2 bellys of different weights for some small projects.  The quality of the tanning seems fine, but I'm not sure how they arrive at the weight of the leather.     Sounds like the same thing you noticed.  Doesn't bother me to much with the bellys, but if I were to get a side or shoulders or whatever I may be a bit more upset.   

Maybe if I used a compass type thing-a-ma-jig to scribe a stitch line, I can use my wood carving veiner to cut the groove.     What cha think?

[oldandslow]

The original Tandy company went away many years ago. My problem with them was that you would purchase 9-10 oz. leather and get 8-9 oz and so on. Also a lot of the stuff they mailed out would have flanky spots or be bony. You just can't do quality work with stuff like that and your carving turns out terrible. Now Tandy is back but it is a totally new company.

I learned a long time ago to pick my leather and not order it. I live close enough to Lubbock, TX to drive over and get what I need. There is a company there named S&D Trading Co. that sells all of Tandy's and most of Hidecrafter's stuff. The best thing about him though is he sells only Herman's Oak for tooling leather and it's as good as vegtable tan leather gets.

I dunno about the veiner idea. The groover cuts a U shaped grove that let's the thread lay down smooth and I don't know how a V shaped groove would work with the thread. The marks that your overstitch wheel makes show up very well in the U shaped groove also. By the way I drill my holes with a 1/16" drill bit and then use the stabbing awl through the drilled hole. I also stick the awl into a cake of bee's wax before every stitch to make the needles and thread go. It's much easier to push  the awl and if you are careful about holding your work square with the bit the backside of your stitching is about as even as the front. After I drill the holes I use the groover on the back side so the thread will lay down nicely like the front side does. I have a large vise mounted on the crossfeed table of the press and I just lay the leather across the jaws of the vise. I use about 1/2" of gap on the jaws. Hold the project and move it with one hand and pull the feed lever with the other.

The thickness of leather is given as weight in ounces. One ounce equals 1/64".  Leather isn't a precision measured material like steel. It's usually sanded on the back side so it is pretty close though. 8 oz. leather would be 1/8" thick and so on. I prefer 8-9 oz. leather for knife sheaths and holsters and it's OK for dress belts. Belts that are going to support a little weight like a holstered handgun or a big belly  need a little more thickness for strength. I can't give any advise about belly leather as I just don't use it.

[AtlLaw]

Interesting stuff there O&S!  Thanks!   

While we're at it, let me ask you if you have an opinion on the wheel type hole punchers.  I've had 3 of the inexpensive ones (the stamped frame ones with the red handle everyone sells) and they just don't last.     I was looking at a forged model.  Any experience? 

[oldandslow]

You are certainly right about the stamped frame hole punches. I take good care of my tools whatever they are for and I really haven't had good luck with hole punches. Period. The cheap ones are just frustrating from the get go and not worth carrying out of the store IMHO. I have a forged pair that finally gave up also though they lasted several years. I'm using a pair of old stamped one made of about three times as thick material as the cheapies that have lasted a long time but they are giving me some trouble with the punches not lining up with the anvil now. They are so old they were made in the USA.  The only punches I can say will last and last are individual punches that you hit with a hammer and I usually use those but they are more trouble to use and especially keep up with.

Tandy is marketing some leather tools with the Al Stholman name on them and they should be good. They certainly cost enough. I think maybe there is a hole punch in the line but I'm not sure. I looked at the swivel knife and almost fell over at the price of it. Kind of the Rolex of swivel knives.

[AtlLaw]

Thanks again for the info O&S!  You nailed my experience with the cheapie punches exactly.  Kind of disappointed to hear that the forged set isn't the cure-all though.     That doesn't leave much but the individual punch sets.

However, I may have to try a forged set.     If they last several years I'll be happy!   

I never did an internet search for leather working supplies since I've always had a Tandy's close by.  And I agree with you, I liked being able to pick out the leather for a particular project myself!     Anyway, there are a lot more suppliers out there then I thought!  I love the internet!   

[jcn59]

The stitching was spaced from the edge with angle iron clamped in a drill press vise, then indexed about 7/32" from the edge of the leather, then holes drilled with.070" drill bit.   I didn't make the blade; just the handle & leather.

[AtlLaw]

The stitching was spaced from the edge with angle iron clamped in a drill press vise,

Nice job and thanks for the idea!

Tandy emailed me, they did a search of their stores and forund one that had a groover.  They emailed me with a toll free number and I gave them a call.  Got it in the mail yesterday!     I gotta say, Tandy's CS has been top notch so far!

Now I can make the sheath for the little patch knife I made.  Just for practice don't cha know... 

[jcn59]

Thanks!

I used to have a hat like yours in your avatar, only the hair was attached to the hat, not to me.

Show us what you made.

[AtlLaw]

 

I love my Stetson's!  I wear 'em 'till the headband falls apart then get another one.

And the hair, beard and all, will be gone February 14th.  My wife-mate's anniversary present!   

[AtlLaw]

Well I got my groover and it sure does make the stitching look better!  I made a scabbard for a little patch knife I made to try it out.

O&S, I now know exactly how you felt!      Last night I unrolled the belly that was 'spose to be 8-10 oz to cut a belt blank for my oldest G'son.  The only part that was close to 8-10 oz was a few inches of one end!     The rest of the hide was no more then 5-7 oz!   

Now, I can use the 5-7 oz for a lot of the little things I like to play with, but darn it, when I pick up something expecting it to be one thing and it turns out to be another I get UPSET!!!     Not really...    I don't get upset anymore...  Well maybe, if I haven't taken my anti-homocide drugs... 

Anyway, Tandy says the leather is graded at the tannery and is shaved to insure a consistant weight within a 3 oz range.  i.e. 8 to 10 oz.  Well they sure messed up on this one!   

Maybe they don't pay as much attention to bellies, but if this were something like a side I really would be upset!

They went so far above and beyond when I was looking for the groover that I will give them the benefit of the doubt.  This time.   

[jcn59]

So Richard's "groovin" these days.  I still want a pic.

[AtlLaw]

Okay okay...    I'll dig out the camara tomorrow.   

[oldandslow]

I want to see the scabbard.

A 3 oz. variation is just too much. I understand the 1 oz. variation since it is an animal product. Hell, a precision product like steel has quite a bit of variation in thickness.













Where's the picture?

Where's that picture? 

Where's the picture? I'm waiting.

Poor quality control and selling something that was not as represented is what got me off the old Tandy. Sounds like the new bunch bought some of the tricks from the old bunch along with the name. 

[oldandslow]

What's going on? I deleted the first part of the post down to the last "Where's the picture?" but the whole thing shows up. Tried to edit it and it won't edit. 

I'm going after coffee. Won't fix the post but it'll help my nerves. 

[AtlLaw]

Well, tomorow was a long time coming!     Anyway, here's the pic of the sheath and also a belt I made for my eldest G'son.  It'll be a knife/pistol belt for next year.  The patch knife is one I made from a hacksaw blade just for grins!   

I'm going through a period of relearning long unused techniques and my work sure shows it!     But I'm having a good time!   

[oldandslow]

Hmm, looks like you get around about as fast as I do.  That looks OK to me. Having fun is the main thing, especially at my age.

[jcn59]

How does the groover operate?  What does it look like?  Is that what put the grooves in the belt?  Nice work!
;
One has a commercial blade, the other a blade I made from some O-1 tool steel.  A friend did the artistry.

[AtlLaw]

How does the groover operate?  What does it look like?  Is that what put the grooves in the belt?

The groover is a wooden handle with a removable steel tip.  The tip has a hole with a cutting bur in it.  It also has an adjustable arm that lets you set the distance the stitching groove is cut from the edge of the leather.  As you draw it to you with the blade on the leather it cuts the groove.  Then you wet the groove area and run a hole spacing wheel down the groove.  VOILA!  Slicker'n owl crap on ice cream!      Don't know why I didn't get one years ago...    Probably because I haven't done any leather work since the 70's.   

The groover comes with a small spoon shaped tip that you can use to impress, not cut, the lines you see on the belt.  Set the arm for the distance you want the line to run from the edge of the leather, wet the leather and impress the line.  My spoon had a very rough edge that grabbed the leather until I rounded it with one of my very fine metal working files.  The end result is okay, but not as nice as the tool I used 30 odd years ago.  Problem is I don't see anything like the tool I had in the current catalogs.     The spoon on the groover will do, if not I'll make what I want!    

One has a commercial blade

Nice work yourself!     I promised to make a knife for the son of the son (who I hunt with) of the landowner of the land I hunt (who is married to my bestus hunting buddy) using the antler of a deer the son (of said landowner, the recipient's father, the one I promised) killed.  I was going to grind the blade from a hacksaw blade like the patch knife in the picture, but then I saw the same commercial blade you used.  How did you affix it to the antler?

[jcn59]

That ugly "Brusletto" blade from Texas knife, and others, is a pretty good one.  It might be laminated like Mora's blades are, and it takes one scary sharp edge.  Strop it when you are done.  We drilled the antler and ground the tang to fit into the hole.  Drill one round hole.  Don't try to drill a "slot".   Fill it with Brownells bedding gel, insert the blade, make sure it was true, then let it set up.

I was thinking about making a "groove" wheel to use on that contraption I made for edge tooling.

[AtlLaw]

We drilled the antler and ground the tang to fit into the hole.

Okay, that's just what I was thinking.

I was thinking about making a "groove" wheel to use on that contraption I made for edge tooling.

Lessee here...    That'd work wouldn't it!     One side of the wheel a larger diameter then the other to act as a guide along the leather's edge and the other side for impressing the groove.  That should make running a long line a lot easier!