Author Topic: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance  (Read 2579 times)

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Offline rickt300

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22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« on: December 05, 2010, 07:45:12 AM »
Let me start by saying I like Ballistic Tips in all calibers and am hoping for some analogy on the small bore versions performance. I have used the 55gr. BT's in all my 22 centerfires, initially looking for that perfect fur bullet that doesn't exit. Well that is not the case, virtualy all the coyotes I have hit with this bullet have exit holes and some pretty big ones at that. I am planning a trip to south Tx. this year to take some does in an area with a bad overpopulation problem and am taking my 22-250 loaded with 60 gr. Hornady HP's and some with the 55 gr. BT's. The Hornady is a known quality as it gives penetration plenty good enough for broadside ribcage hits and I expect the same from the BT's. In fact when I talked to the game warden that is the bullet he reccomends. So Why are there so many Ballistic Tip haters out there?
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Offline Justin10mm

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 09:57:40 AM »
Don't know. I'm certainly not one of them. ;)

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 03:46:37 PM »
The same reason that some think a 220 Swift will last 400rds, old ideas/stories die hard. I would prefer not to use the Varmit BT in a Deer hunt, but for rib cages I bet it will work. But BT's of the big game persuasion have been "toughened up" a good deal since they came out. Most of the Hunting BT's are second generation & the 30 cal. 180 gr. is actually 3rd generation as a request from som Elk hunters I understand.. A general statement from Nosler is to use them at 3000fps & under (impact vel.) but I shot a Buck last week with a 300WM at just 100yds., it did great. And the 168gr. BT has a thicker jacket than the 165BT, but some just think a BT is a BT. As in all things, it may take years if ever for some to realize the changes in these bullets.
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Offline rdmallory

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 04:25:52 PM »
60 gr. seams a little heavy to me for a 22-250. I am shooting the 50 gr (SP) varmint nightmares.  The varmint grenades (HP) come apart it you push them very hard.

Doug

Offline jeepmann1948

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2010, 04:29:06 PM »
I have shot more deer with  22 cal bullets over the last 40 plus years  than any other caliber.A 22 hornet with 40 gr bullets will kill a deer just as quickly as a 338 win mag. using 22 hornet, 223 rem, 22-250, 220 Swift, and the hot rod 22 CHeetah, the only bad result I had was with the 68 gr Sierra in a fast twist 22-250.The deer was shot in the heart passed thru leaving only a 22 cal hole in and out . The deer was tracked and found about 50 yards from the shot. Bullet placement is far more critical than the weight of the bullet. Personally I shoot only head shots and practice a lot.Thousands of deer are shot every year in Texas with 22 cal bullets so I say get plenty of target  time and go for it. The 55 gr bullets will work very well if properly placed.
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Offline roper

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 02:22:32 AM »
Let me start by saying I like Ballistic Tips in all calibers and am hoping for some analogy on the small bore versions performance. I have used the 55gr. BT's in all my 22 centerfires, initially looking for that perfect fur bullet that doesn't exit. Well that is not the case, virtualy all the coyotes I have hit with this bullet have exit holes and some pretty big ones at that. I am planning a trip to south Tx. this year to take some does in an area with a bad overpopulation problem and am taking my 22-250 loaded with 60 gr. Hornady HP's and some with the 55 gr. BT's. The Hornady is a known quality as it gives penetration plenty good enough for broadside ribcage hits and I expect the same from the BT's. In fact when I talked to the game warden that is the bullet he reccomends. So Why are there so many Ballistic Tip haters out there?

I'll tell you why.

Nosler dropped their expander bullet and replaced it with the Ballistic Tip and they only made one type BT bullet back then vs now they have a BT hunting and varmit bullet.  Nosler found out or used us to test those thin jacket bullets and looking back I also think Nosler just wanted to be the first with a Tipped bullet.  Also if you had any dealing with Nosler back then about a complain using BT they just about hand up on you.

I haven't shot a BT since then and never will they should of done their homework.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 03:14:52 AM »
Quote
I also think Nosler just wanted to be the first with a Tipped bullet.  Also if you had any dealing with Nosler back then about a complain using BT they just about hand up on you.
Actually Remington was first & Nosler could not try to be first: http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/Geschosse/Remington/Remington-Corelokt.htm

Never buy a Ford because they made the Pinto, or a Chevy because of the Corvair or a Toyota because a
model or 2 had bad brakes. Barnes improved their X bullet, Nosler made their Partition more accurate, Swift is continuing to improve their bullets, none of which is unforgivable in my view, but to each his own.
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Offline roper

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2010, 03:33:56 AM »
Quote
I also think Nosler just wanted to be the first with a Tipped bullet.  Also if you had any dealing with Nosler back then about a complain using BT they just about hand up on you.
Actually Remington was first & Nosler could not try to be first: http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/Geschosse/Remington/Remington-Corelokt.htm

Never buy a Ford because they made the Pinto, or a Chevy because of the Corvair or a Toyota because a
model or 2 had bad brakes. Barnes improved their X bullet, Nosler made their Partition more accurate, Swift is continuing to improve their bullets, none of which is unforgivable in my view, but to each his own.
 


Since I was talking about the BT bullet I would assume I was talking about that type Tipped bullet.  As you also post on the Nolser site I mention the earlier BT bullets and the problems with them as well as other posters on that site.   Funny you never posted your comments over their Oh I forgot your a moderator.

As you also know that site is run by Nosler and they have some moderators that post.  they never comment on those post about those early BT got to wonder why.

I agree past is past but we have two set of standard that allow for some posters to post their dislike for the WSM calibers without even owning one.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2010, 06:31:10 AM »
Quote
Since I was talking about the BT bullet I would assume I was talking about that type Tipped bullet
Nope, actually you said Nosler just wanted to be the first with a tipped bullet. The type/concept stayed the same anyway.

Here it is:
Quote
Nosler found out or used us to test those thin jacket bullets and looking back I also think Nosler just wanted to be the first with a Tipped bullet.
And, it is the same "type" of tipped bullet, the material of the tip is different as bronze was easier to use at the time, & poly being the economical & logical choice of materials
in these times. The different in past performance (as you stated) is the thickness of the jackets.

As far as me not commenting on the Nosler site, I do not remember your post & don't read all of them. I havn't been there for a month or 2 BTW, my computer crashed at that time & set GBO back up, not them as yet. I will do so today & see if I can get some to comment. BTW, I post on alot of sites, which is as just as illrelevant as me occassionally posting on the Nosler site.

Concerning 2 sets of standards, people can allways offer their opinions & others can disagree. I do not know if everyone who comments on a WSM owns one. I had the privelege of seeing the ballistic results of a couple of WSM's without actually owning one. That's the beauty of shooting & sharing ballistic info with others. The WSM's in question did not know who owned them & I think the chronograph would have spit out the same numbers if they did.

  

  
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Offline Catfish

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2010, 08:42:39 AM »
I have nothing against BT bullets and have had no problems with the ones I have used. That said, I am also convinced that the BT`s largest attribute is it`s a sales gimic. Damage to the tip of a bullet has little effect on it`s accuracy. Damage to the base will have a lot greater effect. Those plastic tip do not cause them to expand. The expanation is due to the thin jacket and it would expand as a soft point or a HP. I will say that I have never had a BT bullets that I thought was junk, but also that I have had HP and soft points that did just as well.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 08:55:05 AM »
Remington used a bronze tip at first not plastic. It may still be made in 2 cals. not sure. The new ones are plastic though maybe made by Nosler ?
 I have use the noslers in 22, 308,7mm,.25,and will in 270 most likely. Not one bad thing to say about them. But admit to never shooting a deer with one in 22 .
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Offline drdougrx

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 03:24:02 AM »
I like BT in heavy for cal weights.  They are deadly on deer sized game in my 270 (use the 150grBT) and I use them in my 243 (95grBT).  I've taken quite a few animals with them and will continue to do so.  I do wish Nosler would make an accubond in 270 and 150gr and in 243 in 100gr though....I do use the 40grBT in my 223 ...very accurate.  It's a rem 700 litevarminter with a 22"bbl and a 1:12 twist....60gr partitions keyhole in this rifle...
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Offline 243dave

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 07:02:24 AM »
I'll tell you of the 2 deer I killed with the 22-250 and 50gr ballistic-tips.  First deer(small doe) was at 25yds, walking and quartering towards me.  I shot it in the shoulder and it dropped in its tracks.  The shoulder was destroyed of course.  Fragments of bullet and bone managed to destroy the heart/lung area, the only part of the bullet found was the base, the base is much thicker than the jacket, it resembled a small rifle primer.  The second was a small doe bedded at about 150yds.  It was shot behind the shoulder, at the shot it got up and ran.  There was no blood at all in the snow and I wondered if I hit a twig or branch before the bullet got to the deer.  I found it about 200yds from where it was shot, I was thankful for the snow because I may have lost that deer in the thick under-brush.  It was shot perfectly behind the shoulder and the lungs was all jelly and there was no exit.  My experience with varmint bullets and deer are mixed with calibers ranging from 223 to 243.  Sometimes they produce spectacular kills and other times they give reason for concern.  Personally I like bullets that exit, and when using any caliber from 24 down, I buy premium bullets that I know will exit even when shoulders are hit.  A barnes X in the 22-250 or 223wssm does a good job on deer, I imagine the 60 gr partition would be another good one too.  A ballistic tip and 22-250 when shooting deer in the body will work(sometimes instantly) but are not as dependable as a premium bullet.  I suppose if your stand hunting with a rest and able to pick your shots bt's will be fine but if you might be on the ground and stalking go with the best and toughest bullets out of a small caliber gun, it'll save you some cursing when that deer runs into a thicket and you have no blood to follow.  JMO........   Dave      

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 08:13:12 AM »
I'll tell you of the 2 deer I killed with the 22-250 and 50gr ballistic-tips.  First deer(small doe) was at 25yds, walking and quartering towards me.  I shot it in the shoulder and it dropped in its tracks.  The shoulder was destroyed of course.  Fragments of bullet and bone managed to destroy the heart/lung area, the only part of the bullet found was the base, the base is much thicker than the jacket, it resembled a small rifle primer.  The second was a small doe bedded at about 150yds.  It was shot behind the shoulder, at the shot it got up and ran.  There was no blood at all in the snow and I wondered if I hit a twig or branch before the bullet got to the deer.  I found it about 200yds from where it was shot, I was thankful for the snow because I may have lost that deer in the thick under-brush.  It was shot perfectly behind the shoulder and the lungs was all jelly and there was no exit.  My experience with varmint bullets and deer are mixed with calibers ranging from 223 to 243.  Sometimes they produce spectacular kills and other times they give reason for concern.  Personally I like bullets that exit, and when using any caliber from 24 down, I buy premium bullets that I know will exit even when shoulders are hit.  A barnes X in the 22-250 or 223wssm does a good job on deer, I imagine the 60 gr partition would be another good one too.  A ballistic tip and 22-250 when shooting deer in the body will work(sometimes instantly) but are not as dependable as a premium bullet.  I suppose if your stand hunting with a rest and able to pick your shots bt's will be fine but if you might be on the ground and stalking go with the best and toughest bullets out of a small caliber gun, it'll save you some cursing when that deer runs into a thicket and you have no blood to follow.  JMO........   Dave      

Excellant post & I concur. We have been looking at 2 different things here, the ballistic tip in general & the Varmit Bal. Tip in particular, partly my fault because I felt it necessary considering the distinction that Nosler themselves have made. I expressed my concern for the Varmit BT in my first post, not that it won't kill, but as you so well pointed out, finding them is just as important. We have discussed at length the ability of the 223 & bigger 22's on Deer  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,190189.0.html  and no need to do it again, but no doubt the 55& heavier soft points will work on Deer with a 223 under 150 yds consistantly with ribcage shots & a little more angle allowed with the premiums & I think as the vel. goes up (22-250), then the premiums are better, but I feel esp. at 22-250 speed the BT is far from optimum. Remember, it's a double whammy, you are far in excess of 3000fps impact vel. that is optimal for hunting BT's & using the Varmit bullet BT. I feel that at the edge of a clearcut for example, finding the Deer could be iffy.
Even in the Deer calibers, as drdougrx mentioned, I like the heavier or at the least med. wt. in a caliber, the higher vel, the heavier for caliber desired. But this is not just for BT's, I find it best with all cup & core bullets as well. Now that the BT has been refined over time and experience has shown, if you use them with common sense & the proper research, they are stellar performers.
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Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 05:31:34 PM »
My experience with a 55 grain Ballistic Tip is this:A 1 in 9 twist .223:Two coyote neither had exits.Several raccoon...none with exits.No complaints here, they went right down and didn't get up.I've shot one deer with this bullet in the neck...he went right down...HOWEVER...in this small spike's neck there was NO exit.I want more than 3 inches of penetration even on a small deer.Save the smaller caliber BT's for smaller varmints.There's plenty other .22 cal bullets much better for bigger critters and they've been discussed here ad nausem.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 01:57:37 AM »
My experience with a 55 grain Ballistic Tip is this:A 1 in 9 twist .223:Two coyote neither had exits.Several raccoon...none with exits.No complaints here, they went right down and didn't get up.I've shot one deer with this bullet in the neck...he went right down...HOWEVER...in this small spike's neck there was NO exit.I want more than 3 inches of penetration even on a small deer.Save the smaller caliber BT's for smaller varmints.There's plenty other .22 cal bullets much better for bigger critters and they've been discussed here ad nausem.

Looks like the Varmit bullet did exactly what it was designed to do.
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Offline chutesnreloads

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 11:54:50 AM »
Yes it performed exactly as designed.My point was that it was NOT designed to shoot bigger critters like deer.There are a selection of bullets that will do a fine job on deer with proper shot placement.The .22 caliber Ballistic Tip is not a good choice.

Offline rickt300

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 06:54:25 AM »
The deer around Burnet Tx. aren't all that big and every shot will be in the neck or just behind the shoulder. I have used the 55 gr. BT's on many coons and coyotes and the only ones that did not exit were on end on coyote shots. We shall see anyway how it turns out I will report.
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 08:27:51 AM »
Good luck!
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Offline rickt300

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Re: 22 caliber Ballistic Tip performance
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2010, 04:00:47 PM »
Well I only took one deer. I used a 60 gr. HP though, a Lockstock and barrel blem buy I bought years ago. They are cannelured heavily and it appears the hp has been swaged almost shut on them.  Anyway it hit a large doe at 150 yards behind the shoulder and angled back a bit to exit. The exit hole was 1/2 inch in diameter, the hole in the impact side of the ribs was an inch and a half wide and on the outgoing side close to an inch. the lungs had a 3 inch hole thru them. She staggered and went down at the hit but got up and ran less than 50 feet. I have a thousand of these bullets and if they perform like that the next few tries I'll use them a lot. The deer was putting in a very surprise appearance and I didn't have time to change my ammo, it was then or never. I got to hunt exactly 20 minutes that trip. Christmas is just not susceptable to putting a lot of time in the field.
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