Horrible accuracy problem SB2 in .223

[scary]

I just bought a handi rifle/scope combo in .223. Took it to the range the same day and shot 55gr Black Hills SP, 55 FMJ, and 77gr match ammo. I was so dissapointed. Most groups were 6" at 100yds. Some groups were 10". I thought it was the cheap scope so I put a target scope on it with no improvement. What in the world could be wrong with this gun? Brand new in the box purchase. Serial number prefix CBA. 

Thank you in advance for your responses.

[necchi]

Did ya clean the barrel?

[quickdtoo]

There's probably nothing wrong with it, you just don't know how to care for and shoot a Handi!!   Read the Handi Basics 101 sticky and give it another try.  

Tim

[gendoc]

is it a standard conture barrel ??
did you let it cool down between shots.
get you some winchester white box 55gr and try it.
you did a big jump from 55 to 77. its gunna take a lil time and $$ to find what it likes
if you don't handload.
any forend fitting problems ?? remove the forend and see if that helps, just remember you did when you break'er down to reload.
if all else fails.....send her back !!!
good luck


tim sums it all up real quick !!!! handi basics 101 !!!

[petemi]

I too have a .223 CBA serial, and it is the most accurate rifle I own.......I didn't do a thing to it.  It climbed out of the box that way.  Most of what it has been fed is just cheap junk Russian ammo.  Perhaps yours diet is too rich.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

I have a CBA 223 Superlight too, but someone sent it off to a gunsmith and made it so I have to use 6mm bullets in it!! 

Tim

[scary]

Did ya clean the barrel?

Yes, it had no effect.

[Junior1942]

Sounds like a loose scope mount to me.

[scary]

There's probably nothing wrong with it, you just don't know how to care for and shoot a Handi!!   Read the Handi Basics 101 sticky and give it another try.  

Tim

Ok, read the sticky. Am I to infer from your post, and the sticky, that where the rest touches the forend can move the strike of the round 10" at 100yds?  

[scary]

Sounds like a loose scope mount to me.

I thought that too so I removed the scope and checked the screws. They were tight.

[quickdtoo]

It will usually shoot high or to a different POI rested on an unmodified forend, IE floated, bedded, etc, as advised, shoot it without the forend to see what effect it has on accuracy. But the number one mistake newbies make is not removing oil from the latch/shelf, oil there will destroy accuracy.

Tim

[scary]

It will usually shoot high or to a different POI rested on an unmodified forend, IE floated, bedded, etc, as advised, shoot it without the forend to see what effect it has on accuracy. But the number one mistake newbies make is not removing oil from the latch/shelf, oil there will destroy accuracy.

Tim

Great, thanks for the info.

[joeinwv]

What kind of rest are you using and how did you zero the gun? If you are getting 6" groups, I don't see how you could zero the scope.

I would pull the target back to 25 yards and get a dead solid rest for the rifle and see where you are at. If you are 6" at 100, you should be 1.5 -2 at 25 and be able to better see what is going on.

My 223 handi shot 2" groups at 100 right out of the box with cheap privi partisan ammo.

If you can't get a solid zero at 25 or 50 yards, you're going to be all over at 100.

[scary]

What kind of rest are you using and how did you zero the gun? If you are getting 6" groups, I don't see how you could zero the scope.

I would pull the target back to 25 yards and get a dead solid rest for the rifle and see where you are at. If you are 6" at 100, you should be 1.5 -2 at 25 and be able to better see what is going on.

My 223 handi shot 2" groups at 100 right out of the box with cheap privi partisan ammo.

If you can't get a solid zero at 25 or 50 yards, you're going to be all over at 100.

Shooting from a bench using a rear beanbag and a bag of lead shot on the front. I started out resting the forend on the front rest, but took the forend off after everything else was having no effect. You're right, the scope could not be precisely zeroed, but I was able to keep the groups relatively centered due to the consistent aiming point. I'm not sure how a two inch group at 25 gives me more info than 6" at 100, but I guess I'll take your word for it.

[Junior1942]

Sounds like a loose scope mount to me.

I thought that too so I removed the scope and checked the screws. They were tight.

Tight screws do not necessarily mean a tight scope mount.  They can bottom out in the holes and leave the mount loose.  You have something major wrong--as if they chambered a 243 barrel with a 223 reamer.

[joeinwv]

...You're right, the scope could not be precisely zeroed, but I was able to keep the groups relatively centered due to the consistent aiming point...

Was there any trend in the group patterns - shooting a number of different rounds and two different scopes, was it always high and right, never the same, decent but with flyers, etc...

I recommend moving in to 25 b/c it removes some variables from the troubleshooting process. It also helps determine if you have an optics type problem or a mechanical problem. If the gun will only shoot 6 MOA, then it will shoot 6MOA at any range. So in this case, around 2" at 25 yards. If you see something very different, that helps determine what is going on.

[scary]

I contacted H&R and they're sending me a pre-paid shipping label to send it to them. The service center said it needed a new barrel. They figured some sort of manufacture defect.

[moorepower]

Good call Scary

[nomosendero]

I havn't bought a new Handi lately, but have shot some good 223"s, one just a sporter barrel that shot great with 52-55 gr, it was the older twist. Then the 1-9's shot well too, well some of them with 68-69 gr.

So, if the Handi has a 1x7 or a 1x8 twist now, it is news to me. But, with so many Handi guys responding and no mention of twist, I guess it got by me perhaps.

It's common knowledge that the 1-9 is too slow with the 77 grain. Sierra says the following: "With this cartridge, we recommend a 1x10 as a minimum for the 69 Matchking, and a 1x8 for 77 & 80 grain Matchkings".  I personally have never seen a twist slower than 1x8 shoot the 77SMK well at 223 velocities.
My RRA AR shoots the 77SMK better than any other bullet.

[watkibe]

For what its worth, my 1-in-9 twist Ultralight 223 shoots bullets weighing from 45 gr to 70 gr about the same. It's not one hole accurate, more like 1 1/2" 3 shot groups and 2-3" 5 shot groups (@75yds).

[nomosendero]

For what its worth, my 1-in-9 twist Ultralight 223 shoots bullets weighing from 45 gr to 70 gr about the same. It's not one hole accurate, more like 1 1/2" 3 shot groups and 2-3" 5 shot groups (@75yds).

No real comparison in this case.

Most 70 gr. bullets are blunt, not that long & a whole different animal, in fact most 70's are semi-spitzers designed to shoot in a slower twist. The wt. is a factor & the length is a factor. The 77SMK is VEEERY long & 77 gr. is alot more than 70 in a .223, so really it isn't comparable. Again, Sierra knows quite well.  

[coues2506]

What proof do you have that you can shoot a 1"group at 100 yards? My money is on bad shooter not bad rifle.

[joeinwv]

What proof do you have that you can shoot a 1"group at 100 yards? My money is on bad shooter not bad rifle.

He already indicated he called H&R and is shipping it back.

This is the course of action I agree with BTW - if a gun is shooting 6" groups right out of the box from a solid rest, there is a problem. Since it is a new gun, best to let the manufacturer inspect if for any defect.

Scary - please post a follow up so we can see how your customer service experience goes - ie: time to get your gun back, communication, explanation of problem if they give you one and also results of how the new / repaired / replaced gun shoots.

[mannyrock]

  Err, . . . , wow Coues.  That was uncalled for.

[ironglow]

Rather hard to figure; I have a .223 (extractor)  which was great from the get-go, all I did was put the O-ring on..

  Glad to hear H & R is backing you on the barrel...

[scary]

What proof do you have that you can shoot a 1"group at 100 yards? My money is on bad shooter not bad rifle.

Wow, how do I respond to this?

Marine Corps Marksmanship Instructor 1990
Marine Corps Rifle Team 1992
LE Sniper 1994
Texas National Guard Combat Team National Champions 2008
All Army Competition 2009
Texas National Guard Governor's 20 X 4
Army National Guard Chief's 50
U.S. Army Distinguished Rifleman
U.S. Army Distinguished Pistol Shot
LE Sniper Section Leader and Trainer

...and I'm from TEXAS!

I'm new to this forum and I honestly didn't expect your kind of response. I hope you're the only dumb bunny on this forum. You sound silly talking out of your rear to someone you don't know. You're on the top of my prayer list now.

Feel free to check my creds: http://www.ng.mil/news/archives/2008/10/102108-marksmen.aspx Cntrl F "Clary" to find my name in the article
                                        http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=4439&eventID=3&awardID=2
                                        http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_distinguished.cgi?distType=&year=&service=ARNG&alphaStart=clary

The only other "proof" I could provide is to sit you down next to me on the range. I'm up for that. I'm in Lewisville, TEXAS and you can buy me a Guinness and apologize after.

[bobg]

  No scary i don't think you will get many replies like that one. Great bunch of people on here. In my old age i thought i had heard everything but that one surprized me too.

[sabbatus]

first of all scary thank you for your service, there seems to be quite a few vets here. myself included.  Very rarely do you find ignorance here, most of the guys here have a great bit of knowledge regarding handi rifles and are more than willing to share it.  So far all of my experience with customer service have been great, and i bet that they will get your rifle right.  

cous you are ignorant to assume that a person cant shoot, or to act that factories cant make mistakes. Especially in the case of the handi rifle as they are made to be very budget minded.  Not to say that they are made poorly as some are great shooters out of the box,  yet some need tinkering and then are amazing shooters.  i've even seen thousand dollar rifles with factory errors that meant the gun couldnt hold a group, let alone a pattern.  We as a group of handi shooters should be sharing knowledge and welcoming folks to the wonderful world of the handi, not pushing folks away from this forum or making the good people here look like pompous snobs

[necchi]

...and I'm from TEXAS!

Well heck! That was enough proof right there,,



and another, Thank you for the service you've done for the country,,an all of us.

[jmayton]

scary, thanks for your service.  And as has been said, most everyone here is quite helpful and sincere.  But you'll find on every now and again who just like to stir things up. 

Now to the topic, I have a 1:12 standard barrel .223 that shoots around 1.5".  I  o-ringed the forend and took the trigger down to about 24oz.  I was going for 2.5lbs, but got a bit carried away.  Anyway, I could probably get it a bit better with another bullet, but I like to hunt with my 55gr Sierras.  Anyway, a friend had one that was doing like yours.  He didn't want to mess with it and got rid of it.  I guess there are just a few out there like that.  Let us know what happens when you get it back.