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Author Topic: why not a 7.62x54r handi  (Read 2077 times)

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Offline zackyholdem

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why not a 7.62x54r handi
« on: October 24, 2010, 05:03:04 PM »
its rimmed, tons of milsurp ammo laying around, plus it would be way more accurate then most of the mosin nagants floating around, seems like the perfect cartridge for a handi rifle? plus i've always want a .303 british handi, and that doesn't look like it will ever happen so i could settle for a 7.62x54r
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Offline Dinny

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 05:23:37 PM »
Quote from: zackyholdem on October 24, 2010, 05:03:04 PM
its rimmed, tons of milsurp ammo laying around, plus it would be way more accurate then most of the mosin nagants floating around, seems like the perfect cartridge for a handi rifle? plus i've always want a .303 british handi, and that doesn't look like it will ever happen so i could settle for a 7.62x54r

I reluctantly agree because it may be even more reliable and accurate than the 30-06......Look out here comes the lightning striking down on my head... :o

Thanks, Dinny
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Offline xhare

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 05:30:01 PM »
I wonder about the case head.  Cases typically have a convex shape to them.  The Handi breech face is going to be flat meaning that the back of the case head wouldn't be completely supported.  I have no idea what Mosin rifle bolt faces look like so maybe this is not really a problem. 
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Offline xhare

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 05:32:44 PM »
After looking at some online pics, it looks more like a tapered rim, the case head appears to be flat for the full diameter of the case body.  Just thinking out loud.
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Offline tcoggins

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 05:52:22 PM »
The bolt face on a Mosin is flat, so I think it would work in a Handi.

Tim
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Offline Spanky

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 05:55:57 PM »
I'd love to have a handi in 7.62x54. The same oomph as the 30-06 and ammo is dirt cheap. And it's rimmed.
Sounds good to me.



Spanky
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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 07:23:26 PM »
If I remember correctly, the outside (facing bolt) is rebated at a slight angle around the rim.   Would that not interfer with chambering a round?  I do not know myself, so thought I would ask.  Otherwise...intriguing idea.

ST762
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Offline Catshooter45

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 07:44:08 PM »
I too would love one. 


Cat
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Offline Hodr

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 08:00:38 PM »
A Dragunov (?) sniper rifle with the correct amunition will shoot a 2" circle with 5 shots at 300 meters, not yards meters.  It is a lighter rifle than an M-14 with pretty much the same range and maybe a little more accurate in the rifle with the 1 in 12 twist.  42 years ago a 100 meter shot was a clout shot and always in the head on targets.  Cartridge was 7.62 by 54r.  In a handi rifle tuned and practiced with, it should do just about everything you can do with a .308 win.  This was one of the Warsaw pact weapons I had to train with and learn to repair as an armorer in Berlin in 1968.

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Offline LabRat2k3

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 08:05:23 PM »
I would be happy if I could get them to make barrels in the calibers that they already catalog  >:( , much less any new chamberings. A 7.62x54R would be nice though.
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Offline Lefty Dude

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 08:35:56 PM »
I would prefer a 307 Winchester, It's American. ;)
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Offline briannmilewis

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2010, 11:01:14 PM »
I sympathize with Lefty about the 307 Win being American.

However, using foreign mil surp ammo in a US rifle, is at least halfway home.

You could practice all year with the corrosive mil surp stuff (cleaning a Handi after shooting this stuff is no big deal), then buy Winchester or Hornady hunting loads for taking your game.

Pretty much the best of both worlds, as at 440 Rounds Mil Surp for $94+delivery (Cheaper Than Dirt) is more or less 25c/rnd. What's not to like about that?

It would be interesting to see if any of our smith wizards could machine the receiver face to fully support the rim.

Also, what about using .311 bullets in a .308 bore?
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 12:51:44 AM »
Wideners has it for $79.
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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 01:56:01 AM »
I love my handi's and that caliber in my opinion is inferior to a lot of calibers that the handi presently comes in.

If the biggest reason is the availability of cheap ammo for wanting one, then what is wrong with just buying a plentiful Mosin Nagant that are dirt cheap quality weapons that are made to fire the stuff?

Cheap ammo isn't a good selling point either when you can reload for most calibers and save a lot of money also.

Don't think it would ever happen, but that's just my opinion!
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Offline jedman

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 03:16:43 AM »
    The rim or case head would be fully supported with the flat standing breech of a Handi.  The rim on the 7.62 X 54 R is similar to that of the 30-40 Krag and others that have a slight taper that helps the cartridge from binding on a break action rifle.  The case head is solid and that part of the rim not touching anything meens nothing.
   A 7.62 X 39 handi could be rechambered to this round and it may even work with a 308 Win. barrel except you would have a oversize bullet throat unless you could find a reamer ground for use with .308 dia. bullets.     Jed
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 03:21:15 AM »
The outside edge of the rim does not need to be supported, only the case head.

This cartridge has been used since 1891 and is still in active military service all around the world.  The Dragunov, PSL, and the PK general purpose machine gun are used by both sides in Iraq and Afganistan.
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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2010, 07:55:12 AM »
The 30-40 Krag would be another good caliber for a handi barrel, and is already a 308 bore.   
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2010, 12:28:55 PM »
Could a 7,62x54 have the 'upper' end resized in a .308 die and a .308 reamer be run farther into a .308 barrel, and a rim seat cut, to take the modified cartridge?
If not this cartridge, is this idea feasable with the 30-40K or .303B to end up with a bigger capacity rimmed .30 that could use the readily available 'std' jacketed bullets?
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Offline Tyrel

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2010, 11:08:50 PM »
I think a 7.62x54r would be about perfect in a Handi. It's rimmed and if used in a barrel with a .308 bore, it can be loaded from cast plinking loads to full power (30-06 level) using the plethora of .308 bullet options.  Could a 30-30 be reamed out to x54r?
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Offline nicholst55

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2010, 02:32:01 AM »
Quote from: Tyrel on October 25, 2010, 11:08:50 PM
I think a 7.62x54r would be about perfect in a Handi. It's rimmed and if used in a barrel with a .308 bore, it can be loaded from cast plinking loads to full power (30-06 level) using the plethora of .308 bullet options.  Could a 30-30 be reamed out to x54r?

What's the twist rate in a .30-30 barrel?  Most are 1:12", which kind of limits the versatility of the barrel and cartridge.  A 1:10" twist would probably prove more versatile for most shooters, especially with jacketed bullets.

Another consideration is that not all gunsmiths will chamber a .308" bore barrel for 7,62X54mmR.  I tried to get E.R. Shaw to thread and short-chamber a .308" bore to X54R, and they flat out refused.  I have heard of other instances of this, as well.
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Offline Stan in SC

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2010, 04:21:26 AM »
The 7.62X54R round is normally used in a .310 or .311 barrel,not a .308.The military primers are hard and if you remember the problem with the now defunct Handi rifle made for the 7.62X39 round,the Handi rifle would not generate enough punch to fire the round consistently.

Stan in SC
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2010, 05:48:11 AM »
Like all H&R .308" bored barrels, 30-30 twist is 1:10"  as stated in the FAQs.

Tim
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2010, 08:24:39 AM »
And FWIW, way back when the Army tested for the '03, 30-06, they tested twist rates. They wanted to be able to use the 220gr., in spite of the superior ballistics of the 180gr., thus the 1:10 was chosen. The 1:12 was superior in accuracy if the 220 was not 'required. Match shooters have used 1:12 for the same reason.
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Offline Tyrel

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2010, 08:26:39 AM »
It definitely wouldn't be for shooting mil-surp. I guess I'm thinking from a reloader's point of view.

Don't Mini-30's have .308 bores?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: why not a 7.62x54r handi
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2010, 09:16:19 AM »
FWIW, krochus did some testing of .308" bullets in a .311" bore, accuracy difference was negligible, and I've shot .284" bullets in an overbore(.2795" groove) H&R .270Win AI with no problems, granted these were handloads, but I wouldn't completely discount shooting the milsurp in a .308" bore, I'd do some barrel slugging and see what the bore actually is first tho, as we all know, H&R bores and SAAMI specs have some tolerance.  ;)

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,132439.msg1098497320.html#msg1098497320
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