Author Topic: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?  (Read 4691 times)

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Offline Brithunter

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Rather than split the thread about compact deer rifles in another direction I thought i would ask the question here. Now as I see it the move to shorter barrels started back in the late 1950's and early 1960's and I suspect it was a manufacturing sort cut/cost saving even then. The move was from 25" and 24" barrels to 22" with a few remaining at 24" for certain chambering's. it was also about this time that the Lightweight rifle cry really began or so it seems. Funny thing was that when these light weight rifles were delivered, lightweight back then was 6 1/4 lbs in a long action chambering like .270 win  ;), the buyers then complained about the excessive recoil. That was a bit early for Larry Kelly of Magnaport but BSA at least took up the challange and developed the BESA recoil reducer machined into the muzzle of some fo these lightweight rifles. They also dropped 2" of the length down to 22" to reduce the weight.

Now during the same period semi auto shotguns wore either 26", 28" or 30" barrels and added tot eh long action made for a long gun yet those same hunters who cried out for "compact" rifles happily went a-field with these long, and often heavy, shotguns. See why I don't understand the must have compact rifles?  ???. I acquired a mid 1950's FN Browning Auto Five the other year and man it is heavy. Had wonted either one of these or the Franchi Hunter for many.................... many years  :-[ in fact since my teens.

Now here in the UK due to the the use of the "Must have" sound Moderator (silencer) and it's added length and weight the fad is to have barrels shortened to 20" and less. Sound Moderators are commonly used in night Fox shooting to curb noise disturbance and some Estates insist upon their use in deer stalking for health and safety reasons, i.e protecting their staffs hearing, and they are also required due noise problems on some commercial ranges. I acquired one last year for such reasons but it does make the rifle un-wieldly and muzzle heavy for stalking as I discovered  ::).

The thing is that shorter barreled rifles were always used in heavy cover, well in Europe, hence the full stocked or Stutzen style which have 18"-20" barrels as a norm yes walked up game like Pheasant, Woodcock and even rabbits is often done is woodland using shotguns that are longer than the rifles that would be complained about for being too long  ???

As the King said to Anna:-            tis a puzzlement

Offline mjbgalt

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2010, 02:04:43 AM »
wayne van zwoll's book says he thinks it's because most of the hunters in the U.S. are aging and would rather have a lighter rifle.
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 09:55:06 AM »
Lighter is more better.  The older I get the more so.
Coyote Hunter
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 10:19:07 AM »
Then it could be we can now get the preformance out of better powders and bullets than they could in the 50's. Also I have read articles where people today don't work as hard and are not used to lifting and carrying weight like the old timers . Some say that is why many old guns had such drop on the stock , alot of men had hurt their necks lifting . I can relate as I have 2 disc messed up in my neck both while lifting to much.
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Offline ScoutMan

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 11:04:17 AM »
For a thoughtful read try to get the late Jeff Cooper's article "The carbine Compromise. (Guns and Ammo-October 1966.) Fr. Frog has the archive.
If you can get closer, get closer
If you can get steadier, get steadier.

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2010, 11:19:41 AM »
Carbines have always existed mainly for mounted artillery and wagon drivers at least in the British army I always fancied one of the Martini Henry 577/450 carbines but the prices are well let's say a little high  :'(.

As for unfit tell me about it I am trying to get over a shoulder injury and my fitness level has hit an all time low. Oh well so much for modern living.

Offline PowPow

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2010, 11:28:40 AM »
Guns, cars, electronics...
Nothing is as big as it used to be, not because people are wimpy, but because improvements in metallurgy, chemistry and other technologies allow the use of less material to accomplish the same purpose at a lower (relative) cost. If it does not add value, leave it off.
Way before these advances in technology, your choices were rock, stick, and edge of cliff. I holding out for a ray gun.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 02:25:13 AM »
powpow, you make the point people have less stress these days as most work is easier cause stuff is lighter. Most folks are not as in shape as those from the past. When I started my jobe back in 72 it was cast iron and steel pipe now its plastic. Now with foam core . Its funny to hear a helper talk about sch 40 plastic weighing so much after using foam core . I rest my case.
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Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 03:02:57 AM »
Not a "fad" really.  Why carry a 9 lbs scoped 30-06 when you can carry one a couple pounds lighter, and just as accurate for the first 3 or 4 shots?  A muzzle heavy gun does hang a little steadier for off hand shooting, but I think most guys try to use a rest of some kind if the range exceeds say 100 yards.  Shorter barrels do not give up any practical loss of velocity under normal hunting ranges, and are a little more maneuverable in the thick stuff.  When I carry my Kimbers or Ruger compact in the woods, they feels like a BB gun compared to my old full sized Mausers and Winchesters, but they balances nice, and kill deer just as dead.

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline jlwilliams

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 03:50:24 AM »
  I can't say for sure why it is, but I'm all for it.  I just like a smaller rifle.

Offline Luckyducker

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 05:46:13 AM »
For me less is more.  I let my son have my Tikka T3 Lite rifle chambered in 300WSM which was pure joy for me to carry and have regretted letting it get away from me ever since, but he doesn't like it because of the recoil so I will be getting it back whenever we can get together again.  He lives about 1850 miles from me and we don't see each other often.  I will trade a little recoil for less weight as I can stand the recoil for a split second but can't abide lugging around a railroad tie all day.  As for shotguns, my dad thought he couldn't live without a Belgian Browning A5 12Gauge (this was back in the early 70's) so he found one at a good price.  After the one and only pheasant hunt with it a co-worker of his asked how he liked the Browning, he replied " throw a railroad tie over one shoulder and a 410 over the other one and you have a Browning".  That pretty much sums up my feelings about heavy long guns.

Offline Zachary

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 02:58:12 PM »
I wouldn't necessarily agree that it is a "fad."  I will say this, I bought a Kimber Montana M8400 a few years ago.  What a delightful rifle.  It is very lightweight, and very easy to maneuver.  That said, however, its light(er) weight increases felt recoil noticeably (especially in its 300WSM chambering).  Nonetheless, I see it as a trade off - light weight v. increase felt recoil, and it all depends on the type of hunting that you do.  I bought this Kimber specifically for elk hunting where I would imagine that there would be a lot of walking and a lot less shooting.  Put another way, walking 90% of the time led me to purchase a lightweight rifle.  On the other hand, when I go hunting in Texas (where most of the hunting there is in a box blind where you just sit and wait for the right deer to come by) I can use a rifle that weighs as much as an anchor (and I have) and it doesn't bother me.  The other thing about Texas is that most of my hunting there is on private property and when the guides tell you to stay in that box blind, then you stay in there, mostly for safety reasons.  Regardless of the reason, weight is not my primary concern in that situation.

Everyone has different reasons for why a light weight rifle may be their primary choice for hunting but, all in all, I just really don't think that it is a "fad."

Zachary

Offline PowPow

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2010, 06:53:28 PM »
Apparently Ruger is resisting the move toward lightweight rifles.
Check out the weight of their new .303 offering in the Light Sporter:

http://www.ruger.com/products/no1LightSporter/models.html

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Offline Brithunter

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2010, 11:23:39 PM »
Apparently Ruger is resisting the move toward lightweight rifles.
Check out the weight of their new .303 offering in the Light Sporter:

http://www.ruger.com/products/no1LightSporter/models.html



Hmmmm methinks the gremlins have been at that Ruger listing  :o now I actually would like one of the .303 Rugers but there is no way I can afford the stupid prices the importers here are quoting talk about rip of merchants  >:( and that groove int eh fore stock would have to go. A nice Horn tip would look much better oh and it really should have a 25" barrel  ;).


Oh one other thing I said compact and was really on about the "fad" of chopping barrel length  ;).

Offline Siskiyou

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2010, 02:04:00 PM »


I believe part of the answer comes from where the person hunts, and lives.  I was raised in farming, ranch and logging country, and have spent many days in different Western States.  Within the same section of land the topography changes along with the vegetation.  The land mass in the country I was raised in exceeds the size of a cluster of eastern states, and the elevation tops out around 14,179 feet and bottoms around 1300 foot elevation. 

The western county can receive between 70 to 100 inches of rainfall rapidly tapering off Eastward to around 12 inches of rainfall.  Drought conditions are common on the Eastside.  A very general statement could be made that these conditions also influence the selection of a new rifle among many other factors.  The eastside offered some long range shooting, but broke volcanic terrain cover with lava rock, mountain mahogany, Manzanita, stands of juniper and mixed conifer balance the equation towards close range opportunities.

In general the blacktail deer lives on the Westside and the Mule deer on the Eastside.  Black bear are common with the population being denser on the Westside.


During my youth the ½ ton pickup with a gun rack in the window was highly represented in the transportation category.  It was a big event when Dad and I installed the 3-gun rack in the back window of his 1950 Chevy pickup.  Early gun rack census would lean towards the Winchester Model 94 carbine with a twenty inch barrel in majority.  Today it is a bolt action rifle, most likely a Remington 700, and there are more ¾ ton and 1 ton pickups.

Your late 1950’s and 1960 transition period is on the mark.  I believe the greatest influence on barrel length and cartridge in the U.S. was the use of the 30-06 cartridge in WWII and Korean War by the U.S. military.  The two primary U.S. military rifles of the period, the 1903 Springfield series, and the M1 Garand came with a 24-inch barrel.    There were some 1917 Enfield rifles in 30-06, which was a modification of the British Pattern 14 rifle that had a 26-inch barrel.  The 1917 was adopted as necessity during the WWI to fill a manufacturing need with existing tooling.

  A successful military cartridge and rifle influences the populist.  In my area the most popular military surplus rifle was the 1903 Springfield.  A friend has a 1903 that he used when he was in high school.  He shades a tear because he cut the barrel back to twenty inches. 

I recall seeing a few long barrel deer rifles around in the 1950’s.  These were the old 30-40 Krag military rifles that had been surpluses in the 1930’s.  They were a cheap source of deer rifles.  I do not recall seeing a commercial version.  At the time they went into surplus the world was in a depression and knowing sportsmen with money knew there was a better cartridge and rifle to be had.  I was a little guy watching Dad and a hunting partner skin out their bucks.  The hunting partner had shot a buck with his long tom 30-40 just under the tailbone, and the bullet left a large exit hole in the chest.  At that time I thought it had to be ultimate deer cartridge. 

Unlike the British 303 that started life as a black powder cartridge chambered in the Lee Medford Mark 1 with a 30+ inch barrel, the 1903 cartridge was designed around smokeless powder which could achieve the required ballistics without a long tube.
I believe the nature of the hunter is to carry a light rifle, rather than a heavy rifle fitting for the caliber.  The transition in America started slowly with the smokeless powder  30-30 Winchester.  The lighter nickel steel barrel came into being to contain pressure and perform with the higher velocity round. 

The continuing improvements in smokeless powder have and will influence barrel length. 

Without a doubt the 30-06 set the gold standard in post WWII America.  The cartridge has improved with newer powders and better bullets.  The 30-06 is the 300 H&H of the 1930’s without the long barrel.

Gun writers the like of Jack O’Connor influenced my generation.  Next to me I have a copy of his book, The Hunting Rifle,” and a recent GUNS magazine.   His is also known for his extensive writing as the firearms editor of Outdoor Life.  I looked forward every month to read his column and articles.  I am sure that when he wrote about having his Model 70 Winchesters barrel turned down and cut back from 24 to 22-inches readers and manufactures took note.  Did the Winchester Model 70 precede our follow his customizing.

I have spent a lot of time hunting thick brush fields on steep slopes.  There are a few spots the blacktail bucks bed down that the only way to get to them is on the crawl.  They are rather secure in these spots because most hunters drive by on the road and continue up the mountain.  A short barrel rifle no manner what the action is better than a long barrel.  Many times they are caught sleeping their bed.  This type of hunting is tough on knees and elbow, and coming nose to nose with a rattlesnake is disconcerting.

Over the last sixty years the forest on the West Coast of the United States and Canada have changed do to looking.  What was thick forest became clearcut blocks.  When the forest was opened up vegetation (deer food) was abundant and the deer herd increase.  The distance in which deer could be spotted and taken also increased from less than fifty yards to hundreds of yards.  What had been 30-30 country became 30-06 and 270 country.

A few years ago I was looking around for a 270 Winchester with a 24-inch barrel, the purpose to gain a little more velocity without upping the load.  At the time I could not find one on the shelve.  More recently there were a number of them available.  Some of these rifles did not gain weight with the extra two inches, because of slimmer barrels, fluting of the barrel, and better stocks.  Then my game plan changed because I had run across some take-off barrels for the Remington 700 in 24-inch length at a gunshow.  I put off buying expecting to take advantage on another day.  I changed my mind about that after killing a couple of bucks with the rifle and 22-inch barrel.  It was creating more than enough damage with the 22-inch barrel.

At one time I had a Husqvarna Hi-Power in 30-06 with a23 ¾ barrel in 30-06.  It had a nicely blued barrel and jeweled bolt.  A smooth, reliable rifle.  The downside to the rifle was a rather hefty birch stock. 

I was brought up shooting doves, quail, pheasant, grouse, ducks and geese with a 30-inch double.  Now days most of my bird hunting centers on quail, grouse, and pigeons.  My GoTo shotgun and a 28-inch modified barrel Ithaca featherweight pump.  After a successful week shooting mountain quail and grouse I was hurting.  I installed a thick recoil pad on it.

The 30-inch double was great for pass shooting waterfowl, but as an anxious teenage I missed a lot of birds jump shooting them out of the river or irrigation ditches at close range.  Rather tell tale on the south end of a Millard centered at 20-yards.

Most of the large sporting arms companies in the United States have been tied to the production of military small arms.  It is logical that the tooling used for military production turned to the sporting arms at the end of the big contracts.  As an example the 1917 Enfield/Pattern 14 manufacture by Remington became the Remington Model 30 sporting rifle.  Winchester took a different path using the 1903 Springfield and tooling.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote about his African adventure using a couple of 1903 Springfield built at the Springfield Armory.  Yep at one time we had a real president.

Logic has it that if you have equipment on hand to build rifles to a government spec that if this can be translated to the civilian market, cost per unit goes down.

My logic easily subject to challenge is the same thing happen in Britain.    After WWI and WWII arms factory looked for another source of income.  They were designed and equipped to build long barrel rifles.  Rather than created something new they modified their production to fill the sporting needs.  The custom makes may have utilized some of the tools of military production where suited.

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Offline charles p

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2010, 10:23:12 AM »
Until I bought my first Model Seven, I never knew how convenient a compact rifle was.

Offline 03A2

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 06:48:06 PM »
My Thoughts:
1) People nowadays are mostly lazy
2) Recoil pads now are much, much better at absorbing recoil so we can now comfortably shoot lighter rifles
3) Scopes are getting ridiculously large, so people need a lighter rifle to compensate for a heavy scope (see #1)
4) Shorter barrels allow "hunters" to climb in and out of their vehicles more easily.  Also in and out of saddle scabbards, but I know few who hunt horseback anymore.
5) Performance levels have risen due to technology, allowing shorter barrels to achieve yesterdays performance
6) Intuitively, a shorter barrel would be easier to manufacure and keep within tolerances
 
Some of these comments are negative, but I will admit to enjoying carrying a micro A-bolt  around for a few hunting seasons. 
Surely someone else has seen something as ridiculous as a 4-14X56mm scope on something like a marlin 336 or model 7?

Offline 351 power

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 02:03:14 AM »
when the 30-30 came out did it become the no.1 deer rifle because people were lazy or was it because it was more efficient? that was a long time ago back when people didn't even have inside plumbing. they were tough back then. didn't keep them from looking for an advantage. the actual carbine idea started with horse soldiers i think. it's just a good idea
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 06:04:00 AM »
I agree it was better lighter etc. But I have seen the drop of shotgun stocks for the same reason . I didn't believe it much either until I damaged my neck from lifting and now find my 1898 pat. Parker with alot of drop reall does fit better now than a strighter stock.
BTW its not my idea it has been printed ig gun articles several times . Our lifestyle has changed.
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Offline tripper

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 08:30:46 AM »
I just don't like a rifle that is taller then me. lol
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 08:56:47 AM »
that was funny  ;D
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2010, 11:53:58 AM »
  I had no idea it was a "fad".  I've been carrying light handy rifles since the 70's, and if no one made what i wanted, i made it myself or had it made!

  DM

Offline foto

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2010, 10:44:38 PM »
The biggest thing you haven't considered is the increasing popularity of telescopic sights and their increased reliability.
With most people using telescopic sights these days the sighting radius of a long barrel is no longer needed and provides no
benefit. Even in the past people hunting brush and short range cover got no benefit of a long sight radius and thus used short barreled
"brush" rifles.Your comparison to Shotguns is not applicable because there is still a benefit with longer barrels , not only for sight radius
but swinging inertia. Shorter barreled shotguns only do well for uses like turkey and deer hunting where you actually "aim" thegun at short range target.Swinging on birds or clays still demand a longer barrel.Claims by people that they shoot better with shorter barreled shotguns on birds isn't supported by sales or actual numbers. Short barrel shotguns may feel great handling but that doesn't translate into hits on birds. As far as rifles
regular people never really saw the benefit from the extra fps you get from a longer barrel but they always saw the benefit of hitting what you aim at and its reflected in rifle preferences/sales depending ont he availble technology.IMO. take care

Offline bilmac

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2010, 01:38:55 AM »
I do shoot long barrels better. I have had super short shotguns that I couldn't hit squat with. I think the best offhand groups I ever shot were with a 45-70 trapdoor rifle, and you can't sat that the rifle was an accurate one.

That said, I keep buying smaller lighter guns the older I get. It is just as simple as I am older now.

May the reason for the "fad" be that hunters in general are older. If you look at the statistics about hunting it is apparent that hunting is a dying sport. Our ranks are not being replenished.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2010, 03:13:42 AM »
The biggest thing you haven't considered is the increasing popularity of telescopic sights and their increased reliability.
With most people using telescopic sights these days the sighting radius of a long barrel is no longer needed and provides no
benefit. Even in the past people hunting brush and short range cover got no benefit of a long sight radius and thus used short barreled
"brush" rifles.Your comparison to Shotguns is not applicable because there is still a benefit with longer barrels , not only for sight radius
but swinging inertia. Shorter barreled shotguns only do well for uses like turkey and deer hunting where you actually "aim" thegun at short range target.Swinging on birds or clays still demand a longer barrel.Claims by people that they shoot better with shorter barreled shotguns on birds isn't supported by sales or actual numbers. Short barrel shotguns may feel great handling but that doesn't translate into hits on birds. As far as rifles
regular people never really saw the benefit from the extra fps you get from a longer barrel but they always saw the benefit of hitting what you aim at and its reflected in rifle preferences/sales depending ont he availble technology.IMO. take care

Hmmmm the gunmaker and ballistics expert Robert Churchill got it all wrong with his Churchill XXV (25" barrels) then?

Oh for those that don't know Churchill developed modern forensic ballistic comparison including the Comparison microscope  :) in fact after being asked to help out the FBI with a case he gifted them his Comparison microscope so they could carry on with it's use.

  Churchill also developed his own game shooting technique which he promoted at his Kent shooting grounds along with the XXV shotgun.

    Meanwhile I and just working on my BSA rifle rebuild, with the new 7mm barrel fitted and the muzzle threaded for a sound moderator or muzzle brake  ;D (1/2" UNF thread) the barreled action weighs 5lbs 11ozs there is the weight of the of the alloy floor plate and separate trigger guard and the two steel screws and magazine case, stock as well as the scope and mounts to add. Barrel length at the moment is 23" (600mm) and OAL is 43 3/4".

Offline Dave in WV

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2010, 05:37:05 AM »
My son doesn't care for my M70 satinless classic 30-06 with a Accuracy Innovations laminated stock. I'd have to guess at the weight but I'd say at least 9 lbs. I like it. I will adit the Ruger Hawkeye stainless rifles with their laminated stock are dead sexy!

As for the short barrel thing all I can say is I started out squirrel huntng with a Rremington 870 16ga with a 28" barrel and to this day I'm ignorant I was/am hindered in the brush. :-\
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Offline tuck2

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2010, 12:17:58 AM »
I grew up with a Winchester Mdl 70  24 inch  barrel 270 which I purchased as a teenager in 1952.  Any of the compact rifles jest dont feel good to me. I did get a Ruger 77 20 inch barrel 257 Roberts a few years ago with which I shot a mule deer but this year I ll be back to the Mdl 70 270 or 264 Win Mag. Most all my hunting has ben  in open country with a few hills.

Offline 351 power

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2010, 02:28:10 AM »
so brithunter are you saying that 20" is unacceptable while 23" or more is acceptable? i find too light a firearm is hard to hold steady. length is not as much a concern though. and there seems that although most companies have a compact model or 2, they have far more options of heavy/long barrel varmint/tactical rifles. which leads me to believe that the actual current fad is more related to shooting at the range
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2010, 02:49:48 AM »
The Germans invented rifles and they were very very short.  Many people only shoot their rifle once a year during deer season so recoil shouldn't be an issue.  Accuracy and velocity really aren't affected by short barrels.  I prefer a 26" barrel on a shotgun and a 22" or 24" barrel on a rifle.  IMO a rifle needs a little weight to hold steady for off hand shots.  I find that my Model 700CDL with it's 24" barrel is about perfect for the hunting and shooting I do.  Fit and balance are more important than weight and barrel length to me.

The use of alloy parts keeps the weight within reason.  I had an Interarms Mauser (nearly all steel parts) and I had to nearly give it away because everyone who picked it up said it was too heavy.  It was almost like they couldn't wait to hand it back to me.
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Offline Brithunter

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Re: Question ........ why the fad/move towards "Compact" hunting rifles?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2010, 03:03:08 PM »
so brithunter are you saying that 20" is unacceptable while 23" or more is acceptable? i find too light a firearm is hard to hold steady. length is not as much a concern though. and there seems that although most companies have a compact model or 2, they have far more options of heavy/long barrel varmint/tactical rifles. which leads me to believe that the actual current fad is more related to shooting at the range

    Nope in fact I have a 20" barreled BSA CF2 Stutzen (Full stock) it was the first rifle I ever brought however it's a particular European style like the Mannlicher full stocks. Most seem to be 22" barrels and I wonder if it's to do with cost cutting by the makers? of course the real old C/F hunting rifles like the Mannlicher Mdl 1892 and the DWM M93 Mauser have 25" barrels at least. I'll have to check what the length of the  BSA .303 sporter is but I'll wager it's more than 24". Of course none of those have scopes or provision for them.

     Now here in the UK due to the want for sound moderators (silencers) and their use in hunting here we see barrels getting chopped to 20" as a common thing but that's to make the rifle less ungainly with the moderator fitted. A lot of sound moderators are quite heavy and even the reflex (over barrel type) one add anything from 3"-6" to the barrel length depending upon design..

     Now as for shotguns well my old Cogswell & Harrison has 30" barrels but that's because it was built probably just after WW1 and it also has 2 1/2" chambers in 12 bore. The others tend to be about 28" but I'll have to check what the Browning Auto Five has  barrel wise. Never realised just how hefty they were until I acquired this one  ::).

Oh I see Swampman is spouting tripe as normal  ::) one could not call the Prussian needle fire rifle short by any means. Rifles were in use before Germany came unto being. The Mauser factory at Obendorf was in the Kingdom of Wurtenburg whilst Spandau the state arms factory was in Prussia a separate kingdom  :).