6.5x284 vs 7mm rem mag vs 300 win mag

[mitchell]

hey guys im about to start buy parts for a new rifles . The reason im building it is for long range deer and hog hunting (lets say 600-800 yards) .

the rifle is going to be a custom savage with either a shilen or doughles barrel 26 inches long and a muzzel break. hopeing to have it top out at about 13-14lbs

BUT  i havnt nailed down the round i want yet. ive came down to 6.5x284 , 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag and need your help swaying me one way or the other. i reload so price really doesnt matter and i can take a hit so i dont car much about recoil plus its going to have a break. so i guess what im reallywanting to hear is everybody personal pros and cons on the three rounds, keep in mind im really looking for med/long range hunting info.

thanks guys

mitch

[SHOOTALL]

With a hog you need to make sure at that range you have enough energy to put it down . You also need enough vel. to get there before it moves . If the critter moves as you break your shot you will be off your intended target when your bullet gets there. I read an article that addressed shooting over 800 yards and it said that military snipers that shoot that far learn alot abot the speed the earth turns and how it effects a shot in different directions . Humidity and temp. And other aspects most don't consider . Not saying you can't do it just pointing out their depth of reserch. That said they use a 300 Win Mag out of the three you listed. That should help some. Others simplfy and say nothing beats cubic inches. Also one other point brough out was it is as important to know your targets movements and signs as it is to shoot well at those distances.

[mitchell]

I read an article that addressed shooting over 800 yards and it said that military snipers that shoot that far learn alot abot the speed the earth turns and how it effects a shot in different directions .

not trying to be a smarta** but i am one and although ive never took a shot in combat that far ive done it at a range a lot and the earth moving has never messed me up before.

that being said you do have a very good point on the bullet having enough behind to it to kill what it hits . i still got to think that the other two would have the power to KO a pig or deer at that range but i do like your thinking overkill is still killed.

[drdougrx]

GL on your project....800yards is long way off.  I'd be suspect of 6.5 or 7mm bullet from any case.  I suppose a 338lapua would work or a 338/378 or even a 30/378 with a heavy bullet. Momentum is the key as I understand it.  I realize that snipers shoot these distances regularly with 30cals, but....I don't have that kind of training or experience so I'd be interested in what you decide.

BTW....where do expect to shoot these distances???

[mitchell]

well i hunt on a ranch in texas (hill country) and it has quite a few long shots . i used a custom rifle made by hart in 300 win mag last fall to take a few pig at 500-600 yards but the rifle is really bench rest only weighing almost 20 lbs and a 2 oz trigger doesnt make it that great of a hunting rifle so a new one is in order. if you go by the 1000 flbs rule all of them should have enough gas to get there and get the job done, ive dropped a deer at 740 before with a 308 shooting 168gr hps and that was a northern deer not the small dog looking deer texas has and the hogs i kill most of the time range from 150-250lbs and are not as bullet proof as people say.

but again i love overkill but a 338 lapua would cost a bit more then im wanting to spend (ie ask my wife for) even with all this deployment money.

[mcwoodduck]

Building what is basicly a Bean Field Rifle is neat.
I toyed with the idea for the farm in NC where you can see about 1,000 yards.
I was thinking 300 Weatherby Mag with 180 grain bullets.  It was the one I found tha
The more I dug into shooting far the more I found out that the rifling will actually move the bullet.
And from what I found out shooting at a deer at anything over 450 yards all kinds of things take place and you need to practice a lot to beable to do it.
Not saying it can not be done but the faster ad heavier the bullet the better your chance of making the hit.
Hitting a target at that range is also different than killing a target at that range.
Think about being 1/2 a degree off at 100 yards is going to be about an inch different.
move that out to 800 yards and you are going to be, well it doubles every hundred yards do 64 inches at 700 yards.  that is 5' 4" off.
What could have been a center punch is now a clear miss.
Let's add to that the differences in bullet construction, powder, and primers from factory round to factory round and look at the standard divation and that perfect hit is not knocking the hoof off of the deer or Hog and you are going to spend all day trying to track it down and kill it.  And we have not even started talking about the variations of wind and heat in the hill country that is going to makes clean kills very hard.
Not saying don't get one but you need to practice a whole bunch and when you can hit a 2 liter soda bottle at those ranges then try for a deer or pig.
If you are talking of under 450 yards.  I would go with 7mm Mag and 160 grain bullets.

[mitchell]

alright guys im just going to put this out there if i dont know that i can hit what im aiming at i dont shoot. thats the way i am and a new toy isnt going to change that , so i give you my word im not some young punk out slinging lead at shadows on the hillside. ive been shooting from 600-1000 yards for a while (way before i got in the army) and know how hard it is . (and its really not that bad once you learn how to read wind the rest just take practice with your gun)

and i dont mean to pick a fight with you woodduck but if your a inch off at 100 yards your going to be 8 inch off at 800 yards not 64 and a degree at 100 yards is way more then a inch . a minute is a inch at 100 yards and if i remember right a minute is 1/60 a degree but im not sure and dont really care

guys all i really want to know is about the rounds i talked about and what everybodies personal opinions where of them ,maybe even a story or two of why they like or dislike one of them.

[moorepower]

Wind at 600 yards will make you nuts!

[mitchell]

thats kinda why i was thinking the three rounds said because you can get bullets with such high BC for them to help . i even thought about the 264 win mag but its just such a barrel burner i dont really want to go there

[wind drift]

Mitchell get the 7mag and shoot the 180gr. berger vlds the bc for this bullet will be very hard to beat and they are supposed to be a good bullet for hunting.Good luck with the build.

[wind drift]

That is if you reload.

[mcwoodduck]

alright guys im just going to put this out there if i dont know that i can hit what im aiming at i dont shoot. thats the way i am and a new toy isnt going to change that , so i give you my word im not some young punk out slinging lead at shadows on the hillside. ive been shooting from 600-1000 yards for a while (way before i got in the army) and know how hard it is . (and its really not that bad once you learn how to read wind the rest just take practice with your gun)

and i dont mean to pick a fight with you woodduck but if your a inch off at 100 yards your going to be 8 inch off at 800 yards not 64 and a degree at 100 yards is way more then a inch . a minute is a inch at 100 yards and if i remember right a minute is 1/60 a degree but im not sure and dont really care

guys all i really want to know is about the rounds i talked about and what everybodies personal opinions where of them ,maybe even a story or two of why they like or dislike one of them.

I understand the i inch at 100 yards but what i was trying to explain is a Slice of Pizza may start out as 1mm wide can grow to 4" at the crust in a short order with a 25 degree slice on a large pie.   Take that same angle and it grows epodentialy over distance.
The farther you go the greater the distance you are off is what I ment.

[mitchell]

well if you had related it to food earlier i would of got it then , i do tend to always think with my belly.

for real tho i do understand MOA and have had no problem on a good day keeping my rifles, be it my personal ones or my M24 , shooting under MOA out to 800 yards (ruffly 8 inches).

[Coyote Hunter]

mitchell -

When I made this decision last year I came up with a 6.5-06 Ackley Improved.  A .264 Win Mag would have worked had I had a magnum bolt fact on the action I was using.

FWIW, I already had a 7mm RM and .300 WM.

Now I'm building another custom on a Ruger MKII action with a magnum bolt face.  It will be one of two - a .375 Ruger or a .338-.375 Ruger.  The .338-375 would be for long range elk.  Recoil will likely be more than I would want for a deer/hog rifle.

[chutesnreloads]

Mitchell,Sounds like you know what you're about.All you mentioned have adequate power so I'd suggest a simple solution.Since you'll be shooting at critters that don't hold still long,I would suggest whichever one will get a bullet downrange quickest.I'm sure you know how to find out which one that is.

[burntmuch]

mitchell Ive read that the 6.5X284 burns out the barrels kinda quick. I think I would stick with the 7mm or the 30 cal bullets.. Not sure if the 7mag burns out a barrel as fast though. its hard to argue against the 300 win mag 

[nomosendero]

thats kinda why i was thinking the three rounds said because you can get bullets with such high BC for them to help . i even thought about the 264 win mag but its just such a barrel burner i dont really want to go there

That rep has stayed with the cartridge & the 220 Swift as well. Funny, the 257Wea. has very close to same powder capacity as a 264, but with a smaller bore which would indicate a fast barrel burner, but the bad rep did not start with the 257. Also, no real reason the 264 would be as much a burner as a 257STW and no more than a 300RUM. For long range hunting, it would last many years. For volume target shooting it won't last well, but even the 6.5X284 has some long term target issues though used alot for that, hence the reason the Creedmore & 260 are now takinfg some of the 6.5X284 Target shooting glory. With modern powders the 264 is wicked. My favorite mag for Deer/Hogs/Elk/Moose, whatever is the 300WM, but for Deer/Hogs, gotta love the 264, BTW I just bought one.

[BBF]

I suggest the 257 Wby with a premium bullet.

[mitchell]

nomosendero  i have thought hard about the 264 win mag but having never owned one ive just gone off what ive heard that being its a barrrel burnner. but barrels are like tires , you burn them up and ya get new. ill have to look into it some more it could be the best of both worlds

[Lloyd Smale]

out of your three id take a 300 win mag hands down.

[SHOOTALL]

I read an article that addressed shooting over 800 yards and it said that military snipers that shoot that far learn alot abot the speed the earth turns and how it effects a shot in different directions .

not trying to be a smarta** but i am one and although ive never took a shot in combat that far ive done it at a range a lot and the earth moving has never messed me up before.

that being said you do have a very good point on the bullet having enough behind to it to kill what it hits . i still got to think that the other two would have the power to KO a pig or deer at that range but i do like your thinking overkill is still killed.

Glad it didn't maybe the effort of those who study such helped. I didn't take you as a SA , my point was the effort the military went to and the tools (guns) they use . Our range just got extended to 600 from 500 yards . At 500 I can connect with a steel plate more times that not with a 7.5 inch redhawk. But it never moves and once dialed in its easy. And until I read the article I never considered it. But if i remember - at 1000 yards shooting south west in North America it can make you off by a couple inches with a 308 round. To be honest how would a shooter ever know ?

[SHOOTALL]

I also know some guys who shoot P-dogs and one has got a few at 800 yard range ( lots of shots ) his goal is 1000 yards. He uses a 300 WM .

[mitchell]

the 300 kinda is the "god of the wind" you can ask the guys at the 2009  NEF P-dog shoot the last day there we had a gusting 30 mph wind i got out the 300 and was eating them up at 600 yards that same day i couldnt even get 300 yards with my 22-250 ai.

the only real reason that keeps me from going with the 300 is that i already have one and after seeing how bad a 185gr VLD messes up a hog at 600 it just seams like the recoil is not needed for the task i have and with the better BC's of the 7mm and 6.5mm there really damn near the same as the 300

[mitchell]

just spent a few hours reading about the 264 win mag with those 140gr berger VLD's with a BC of .612 its looking pertty darn good. if you get it going 3200fps thats only 12 inches of drift at 625 yards. not half bad from the little mag.

nomosendero you might just be on to something.....must ponder this more

[BBF]

I had a 264 many years ago, good cartridge, I had a bad rifle, when Rem. came out with the 7mm Mag it replaced the 264.
 I used H-870 with 140 gr Nosler PT's

[charles p]

I built a long range rifle in 280 Ackley.  Used a Shilen match barrel on a blue printed M 700 receiver in a McMillian stock.  I think this will do what you are asking for.  Never weighed mine but I doubt it is 13lbs.  Barrel is 26" stainless.  Scope is Leupold LPS 30mm.  It's a safe queen.

To be very honest, I cannot shoot it any more accurately than my little 20" Mod 7 in 308.

[Lloyd Smale]

got to agree. We shoot alot of crop damage deer every year and my 300 mag is hands down the easiest gun to hit with at ranges out past 300. Even on a windy day ive taken head shots at 300 yards. Something i wouldnt try with even my 257 weatherby in the wind.

the 300 kinda is the "god of the wind" you can ask the guys at the 2009  NEF P-dog shoot the last day there we had a gusting 30 mph wind i got out the 300 and was eating them up at 600 yards that same day i couldnt even get 300 yards with my 22-250 ai.

the only real reason that keeps me from going with the 300 is that i already have one and after seeing how bad a 185gr VLD messes up a hog at 600 it just seams like the recoil is not needed for the task i have and with the better BC's of the 7mm and 6.5mm there really damn near the same as the 300

[nomosendero]

got to agree. We shoot alot of crop damage deer every year and my 300 mag is hands down the easiest gun to hit with at ranges out past 300. Even on a windy day ive taken head shots at 300 yards. Something i wouldnt try with even my 257 weatherby in the wind.

the 300 kinda is the "god of the wind" you can ask the guys at the 2009  NEF P-dog shoot the last day there we had a gusting 30 mph wind i got out the 300 and was eating them up at 600 yards that same day i couldnt even get 300 yards with my 22-250 ai.

the only real reason that keeps me from going with the 300 is that i already have one and after seeing how bad a 185gr VLD messes up a hog at 600 it just seams like the recoil is not needed for the task i have and with the better BC's of the 7mm and 6.5mm there really damn near the same as the 300

I agree too & will keep a 300 period. Mine is a Sendero, went to a hunting club several years back & shot a 1.5" group at 500yds, they did not invite me back, no I can't do that all the time, forgot to tell them! 
But my deal is like Mitchell's I have a great 300, wanted another rifle & the same uses you are talking about. For that, the 264 is a little better. Mitchell, looks like you ran those numbers!! 

[Lloyd Smale]

I then would look at a 257 weatherby. Both the 257 and 264 are plenty flat but theres a better selection of bullets and factory ammo available for the 257.

[nomosendero]

I then would look at a 257 weatherby. Both the 257 and 264 are plenty flat but theres a better selection of bullets and factory ammo available for the 257.

I'm a .25 cal fan & love the 25-06 & 257 Wea. & have used the 25-06 & a 25-06 AI on many a Whitetail, Mule Deer & Antelope. I find them not be be lacking at all for 400 yds.+ on Mature Whitetails or Mule Deer & though all of my Antelope thus far have been under 600 yds, they would have plenty of gas for that. But for Mitchell's application & I am looking at a similar potential, I would not advise the 25 for what was stated in the original post, (Deer & Hogs at 6-800 yds) The 264 with a 140 at 3200+ leaves the 25's in the dust for that situation, fly flatter than any commercial 25 at 600+ or 300WM for that matter & have the horsepower needed at long range.

When I started researching the 264, I ran the numbers on all of the bullet weights & found a really neat situation. With the lighter bullets up to 120 gr., they are very near ballistic twins, in other words 115BT vs 120BT, 120 Part vs 125 Part., except for now the new 120 A-Max & GMX gives a little more spread. So what I saw was a a 257 Wea. type performance with a huge advantage of having in the toolchest heavier 130 & 140 grain bullets with BC's & reduced wind drift thaat a 257Wea. just can't run with.