.45 Colt Winchester 94 and hunting.....

[B. Miville]

Hello folks, been a while but I got some questions.

So I own a sweet little Winchester 94AE in .45 Colt, 20" barrel and full length magazine.  The guy I bought it off of had only fired a couple rounds through it but decided he liked his .30-30 better.  Sold this puppy to me for a song and a dance and for the last couple years it has been my favorite deer rifle.  Once I took the cheap scope he had on it off I stuck on a Williams aperture sight and it is a light and accurate gun perfect for the short range brush I have up here in New Hampshire.  I origionally hand loaded some 300 grain Sierra JSP's until some folks here said for deer that particular bullet usually won't reliably expand on deer sized game so I switched to the Sierra 240 grain JHC.  I have not shot any deer with it yet, but perhaps this might be a good thing since I noticed something just the other day.  You see, I followed the data in the 5th edition Sierra manual.  I am using a max load of 23.6 grains of W296 which the manual, using a 16" barrel, says should theoretically be doing 1550 fps.  Ok, so far so good.  Well, the other day after I had loaded up a new batch of the 240 JHC I was curious about what kind of comparison the loads I am shooting out of my rifle would compare to the .454 Casull from a revolver.  So I flipped back to the .454 Casull handgun data and noticed that there was a warning about pushing the same bullet past 1400 fps.  So my first thought was "awwww s******t".  There is no such warning over on the rifle section for the .45 Colt, yet their own data has the bullet going faster from the rifle than the handgun data for the Casull.  Add to all this I have an extra 4" of barrel to throw into the mix.  So now I don't know what to do.  Thus I come for advice or perhaps personal experience.  Should I be worrying about this?  The warning apparently is because the jackets are thinner since they were intended for .45 Colt from a handgun.  So I am wondering if perhaps I will get too much expansion and thus not good penetration.  I am going to get my hands on a Chrony and see what the real world numbers are from my gun.  Should I perhaps be thinking of going to stouter bullets intended for the Casull?

Also, speaking of 300 grain bullets....assuming properly constructed jacketed bullets are used, pushed at SAFE top end loads from a manual.  Would you consider this round able to take New Hampshire sized moose (800-100lb range) at 100 yards or less?  I do have other more appropriate rifles (namely a .30-06) but I really like this gun and should I actually get picked for the moose lottery I think it might be fun to use this one.  But I do also want to be responsible.  I figure if the .45 Colt from a rifle can come close to or match the .454from a revovler this must be acceptable.  But I am curious what you folks think.  Also, if the answer is positive then what would you suggest for a good bullet to use?  Obviously the Sierras are looking to be inappropriate (for the same reasons as the 240 JHC....or so the Sierra manual says.)

Thanks

Brian

[243dave]

I have a 45colt winchester trapper(16" barrel) and have killed a couple of deer a year with it for the past few years.  I load it hot with 23gr of h-110 and 300gr jacketed bullets.  I don't have a chronograph but loads are about 1600fps.  I started out shooting the 300gr xtp's but now I shoot the 300gr xtp mags.  These 2 bullets might share the same name(xtp) but they are nothing alike.  With the regular 300gr xtp's they would fail to give exit wounds on small whitetails when shoulders or quartering shots were encountered.  Its not the bullets fault they were designed for the 45colt at pistol velocities.  The whole reason for me using a 300gr bullet is for exit wounds regardless of angle or bone hit.  So I tried the 300gr xtp mags and they always exit even when the deer is shot from the rooter to the tooter and leaves a golf-ball size hole.  When the .452 bullets are marked Mag they are meant for 454 casual velocities.  They have a much thicker jacket than a regular xtp.  In the 45colt rifles I highly recomend the xtp mags they come in 240 and 300 grains.  As for a 300gr xtp mag for moose, I would without hestation.  They give more penetration in phone-books than 180gr bullets from a 300 win mag. and a bigger wound channel too.  I've even read where these bullets held together at 460 s&w velocities.  If you get a chance to try them out I think you'll like them, they are accurate and stout as can be had in a jacketed bullet.   Dave         

[tacklebury]

+1 on the 300 XTP mags.  I tried some 250gr. XTP's and some actually de-jacketed in mid air at 75 yards with full house Blackhawk loads.  Try some with Reloader7 if you want some real fun without as jarring a recoil spike.    I'm using 25 gr. and it's performing phenominally and super clean bore.  Just make sure to mark them well if you use a .45 pistol too, because you wouldn't want to mix em up!!!

Got the load starting point and some really good info in this article: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

Specifically:

There is a whole world of surprises waiting the reloader using the rifle powder ReL#7 in the 45 long Colt case for rifles. (Rifle powder not #7 pistol powder) With the 260 Keith I start with 25 grains and work up. I want anybody that wants to try it...to work up slowly so I’m not giving the top load..but the top velocity from the Winchester is 1800 to top end 2000 fps. And in the Browning 1892 action it will reach nearly 2200 fps or more and a SK of 82. Go slow with mag/pistol primers, and ReL#7 and because of it’s slow burn rate, it gives great velocities. H4227 is the other really good powder, but obviously not as slow as ReL#7.

[B. Miville]

Sweet!  Thanks for the advice.  I was actually on MidwayUSA reading reviews and I found that indeed the Sierra 240's may be a bit fragile for rifle velocities (one guy said at 1350 from his revolver shooting into water jugs they expanded to .80" and turned, literally, inside out.)  The 300 grainers however got really good reviews including 2 guys using Winchester 94's (one of them with a 20" barrel like mine) and saying they were getting really good penetration and accuracy.  But I covered all my bases and checked the reviews on the two Hornady XTP Magnum bullets (a 240 and the mentioned 300 grain ones) as well as a Speer 260 grain.  I think what I am going to do, since it is kind of late now to start working a new load so close to the start of the season, is use the 300 grain Sierra load I was using before I went to the 240 Sierra.  After this season though I am thinking of toying around with that 300 grain XTP Mag as well as fiddling with new powder and primer combos to see what kind of extra performance I can wring out of the rifle.  I will absolutely think about trying the Reloader 7.

Brian

[Bigwoods Hunter]

My wife and I are outfitters in Manitoba , Canada. After our clients are gone , we hunt for fun. We use our Winchester Rifles in 45 colt . They are 20 " barrels. The load is Sierra 240 gr. JHC bullets, pushed by 22.3 gr. of H 110 powder. We have tried other loads, but have been using this load for many, many years, taking Large Canadian Whitetails and Barren Ground Caribou. The results have been one shot kills, broadside and quartering away, with complete pass through. Trust us there is no need for more powder charge , differant bullets or heaver bullets for hunting big game. This fall my wife harvested a caribou at 125 yards. I harvested a caribou at 185 yards with the aid of a range finder. For hold over practice we shoot at old frying pans (with the handles stuck into the sand ) at 150 and 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. You should try this too, and once you know how easy it is, your 45 colt will be your faverite big game rifle. Trust me I have shot big moose in Canada. If you put the 45 colt right behind the front shoulder he will be yours to haul out. Caribou photos are on Sierra's web site if you double click on hunters success. Good luck B. Miville from Russ , Bigwoods Hunter !!!   

[dpe.ahoy]

Here's another vote for the XTP Mag's.  Any bullet rated for the 454 is a good one to use out of a rifle with full power loads.  Nothing wrong with a good hard cast, gas checked flat nosed bullet, they will go thru most any animal in the lower 48.  My 45 colt Winchester is a 16" trapper, got 2- 20" H&R's and 2 Rossi 454's, one 16" and one 20".  You will have a lot of fun with your's, easy to burn up alot of rounds= better shooting with the practice.  DP

[LONGTOM]

I too say don't overlook the cast bullet.
In my 16" trapper a 255gr hardcast (15 on the scale) plain base flat nose with 12.5gr of HS6 pushes it along at about 1500 to 1550 and will pass through most big game on a shoulder shot.
In my 5" Blackhawk it runs at 1040fps and will pass through both shoulders of a full deer at 75yds.
It is a super accurate load with plenty of room to step it up if so desired.
Loading info can be found in HODGDON's #26 manual, page 584 of the section IV Silhouette Loads.
This load is below starting load for a 7.5" Blackhawk.
Max load is 16gr at 1264 from a 7.5" Blackhawk so it would be much better in a rifle and still hold up without a leading problem.
I have yet to find a 45 that doesn't like my load.
I am sure there are other loads that will do what you want, maybe better but this has done all I have ever asked of it.



LONGTOM