Author Topic: What is up with all the "short mags" ?  (Read 3710 times)

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Offline jcn59

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2010, 08:25:56 PM »
I have a Browning micro hunter in 300 WSM that weighs 7 1/2 # with a 3-9 monarch scope on it.   More HP than I need for deer so I load it to 30-06 velocities.  I see it as "the 30-06 of the new millenium".  For what I do with it it works well, & I'm happy with it.  My 30-06 rifles weigh a pound or so more than the 300. 

Living in northern Wisconsin, hunting the woods, I don't need a long range rifle.

I gave my 300 Win. Mag. to one of my boys & don't miss it.
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Offline WyoStillhunter

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 03:56:37 AM »
Do-it-all cartridges like the 7X57, 30'06, 308 Win., and the family of spin-offs generated by necking them up or down, make magnums, both short and long, unnecessary for 90+% of all hunting in the Lower 48.  They not only kill animals efficiently they also kill marketing efficiently.  Once you own a well tuned rifle in one of these cartridges you simply don't "need" another rifle.

When we no longer need things and stop buying them the industry must use marketing to create a need.  Thus we have short magnums, tactical this and that, dozens of equally effective camo patterns, etc.

Short mags are probably fine cartridges in their own right for hunting.  Let's just admit that they were not born of necessity from the consumer point of view because hunters have had all they need for decades.  They were born out of the industry's necessity to create a sense of need (marketing) in the consumer to increase sales.

Boring but true.
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Offline jcn59

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2010, 06:31:16 AM »
New ideas make the world an interesting place, AND provide jobs for Americans within the gun industry.  Without them, we would still be throwing spears, and dying from polio.

I enjoy seeing the industry's new ideas; I just suscribe to  the things that interest me.   "Tactical" makes me puke, but it sure has raised the bar on accuracy, hasn't it?
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Offline Win 1917

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2010, 04:05:14 AM »
I like to see new stuff come along too. If it's not something I need I just don't buy it.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2010, 06:51:53 AM »
The weight reduction claims are largely bogus. If you cut half an inch out of the middle of a bolt action you have removed mostly air, with two, maybe three ounces of steel. Any further weight reduction comes from elsewhere, such as a lighter barrel and lighter synthetic stock, not from a shorter action. Standard actions were already light enough to build a rifle too light to comfortably shoot, especially in magnum chamberings.
As for the shorter bolt throw, if you're really interested in saving milliseconds you should get a pump or auto. Smoothness of feeding probably has more to do with speedy reloading than does the bolt travel.
There never was any "need" for the super short, extra fat rounds but I have no doubt they all work just fine, I just don't see any special advantage to them.
 New rounds certainly add to the burden of gun shops which already have 200 grand invested in ammo and don't make a penny back until it sells. They can't compete with Walmart on the common stuff so they have to stock whatever Walmart doesn't and that means the uncommon rounds which may sit on the shelf for years waiting for that one customer. New chamberings do sell new rifles, ammo, reloading dies, etc in the short term but after the fad has passed the store still has to stock the ammo for many years to come. Of course I'm referring to "normal" times, pre-Obama and hopefully soon post-Obama. ;D
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Offline Bowjack

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2010, 06:31:29 PM »
I wouldn't call the weight reduction bogus.  My Kimber Montana weighs 6 1/2 lbs, and is shooting .300 WSM's factory loads at less than .75" at 100 yds. 

What is not to like about that?  I bought this gun to hunt elk, and that I will do w/o any hesitation with this gun.   The gun is simply awesome, and was designed around the cartridge. 

Offline jcn59

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2010, 07:39:48 PM »
Nothing not to like about my .300 WSM Browning Micro-Hunter at around 7# scoped.  This rifle doesn't need a 26" barrel to kill elk.

From a practical point of view, it does everything My .300 Win Mag does but in a smaller package.
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Offline coyotejoe

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2010, 04:17:19 AM »
I wouldn't call the weight reduction bogus.  My Kimber Montana weighs 6 1/2 lbs, and is shooting .300 WSM's factory loads at less than .75" at 100 yds. 

What is not to like about that?  I bought this gun to hunt elk, and that I will do w/o any hesitation with this gun.   The gun is simply awesome, and was designed around the cartridge. 
I didn't say they don't build light guns, I said it isn't the cartridge which makes them light. Ultra Light Arms builds a 30/06 length rifle to weigh 5 3/4 pounds. Weatherby also builds a 5 3/4 pound rifle in .270 and 30/06. They wisely don't' chamber it for magnum rounds. People are building light rifles for those short cartridges but they don't "require" short cartridges to make rifles too light and painful to shoot.
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Offline roper

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2010, 04:43:16 PM »
I wouldn't call the weight reduction bogus.  My Kimber Montana weighs 6 1/2 lbs, and is shooting .300 WSM's factory loads at less than .75" at 100 yds. 

What is not to like about that?  I bought this gun to hunt elk, and that I will do w/o any hesitation with this gun.   The gun is simply awesome, and was designed around the cartridge. 
I didn't say they don't build light guns, I said it isn't the cartridge which makes them light. Ultra Light Arms builds a 30/06 length rifle to weigh 5 3/4 pounds. Weatherby also builds a 5 3/4 pound rifle in .270 and 30/06. They wisely don't' chamber it for magnum rounds. People are building light rifles for those short cartridges but they don't "require" short cartridges to make rifles too light and painful to shoot.

I hate to say this but Ultra Light Arms makes a Model 28 and 28 Short that are mag rifles @ 5 3/4lbs and the 28 short is for cases like the WSM etc. 

I agree that Wby doesn't make a light mag rifle @ 5 3/4lbs and there a reason for that.  In their models the 30-06 is the cut off and they use a 24" long barrel and if you look at their Ultra light  mag rifle @ 6 3/4 lbs part of that is the extra added 2 5/8" in overall rifle length which includes 2" extra of barrel.

I've got one of John Gallaghers light rifle he made for Gulf Breeze Firearms build a a WSM model 70 action has a 25.5" long barrel scope,mounts etc total weight is 7lbs in 270WSM rifle fun to shoot not much recoil.  My 300WSM weight 9lbs and my new one weight 8 1/4 lbs.

All it is boys and their toys.

Offline jcn59

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2010, 06:24:56 PM »
I shot a deer with my .300 WSM Browning & the recoil knocked my hat off.  I immediately installed a prefit Limbsaver pad. 

I've never had that happen before after shooting many deer with many rifles and cartridges.  I've since loaded it to 30-06 levels for deer hunting but I still stoke it to near max for elk.  Works about the same as my 30 TC Icon or Savage on deer.  I guess I just like to try different kinds of guns.  That probably makes me the kind of guy that keeps gun shops in business, huh?

I don't shoot this rifle recreationally but I enjoy hunting with it which generally calls for just one well placed shot.  Have to agree with Joe, little guns with mag loads DO kick.  They are a pleasure to cart around the mountain, though.
Vote them all out, EVERY election!
 
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Offline moorepower

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2010, 02:59:50 PM »
I have a 7mm RSUM because I picked up one of the model 7 laminate rifles for under $400 with tax that Remington was dumping! I bought 200 pieces of brass, and that should last me the rest of my life with this gun. Swampy you should be proud of me for getting the Remington reject! Seriously though, I do like the looks and feel of it, but it won't shoot with my Savage's.

Offline mrbigtexan

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2010, 06:29:49 PM »
I have a 7mm RSUM because I picked up one of the model 7 laminate rifles for under $400 with tax that Remington was dumping! I bought 200 pieces of brass, and that should last me the rest of my life with this gun. Swampy you should be proud of me for getting the Remington reject! Seriously though, I do like the looks and feel of it, but it won't shoot with my Savage's.
my 7mmsaum is shooting excellent. p.m. me if youd like and we can share info.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2010, 12:15:51 PM »
....
 Is there something I am missing or was the whole short mag craze a marketing ploy ? Someone please tell me their experience with a "midget mag" and why they are as good as a long mag. Thanks, and have a great day.

Dave

The short mag designs (WSM and SAUM) were technically sound but, for most shooters, simply did not offer enough advantage to justify the cost of a new rifle or the increased cost of brass and loaded ammo.  The super short  magnums (WSSM) were pretty much DOA, too much of a good thing and once again proving that "more" isn't necessarily "better".

Feeding issues with the short, fat cases and reduced magazine capacity didn't help.  Even the promise of  shorter, lighter rifles was a promise that vendors often failed to deliver on, at least in any meaningful way.  Rifle bolts and magazines were different, too, meaning easy conversions were out of the question.  New rifles were often more expensive than similar rifles in standard chamberings.

Enter the Ruger RCM series, .300RCM and .338RCM, in rifles that really are shorter (lighter I don’t know about, depends on the stock material).  These short magnums do not cause a reduction in case capacity as they are the same diameter as the belt on a “magnum” cartridge.  Rifle conversions are easy, too.  I like them a lot but only time will tell if they will succeed.
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Offline gs50401

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2010, 04:16:14 AM »
The 270 WSM is a very good round and I wanted  a light 25 WSSM rifle but it was sold before I could get it.

The 25 felt like a .22 with nearly 25-06 power.

Offline roper

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Re: What is up with all the "short mags" ?
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2010, 10:56:42 AM »
When the WSM hit the market big things was short action reduced weight both are true.  The WSM was compare to a LA mag rifle.  Since the WSM used the same case head as the 7mag,300mag,264mag,300Wby those caliber don't have the same mag capacity as a standard case head like the 270,30-06 etc so why would anyone figure the WSM to have more than what's offer in other mag rifles.

As to cost some  like Win will charge more for a mag caliber rifle other's charge to same.

As to feeding problems I'ver heard about them but my 3 rifle WSM feed fine.

WSM offered a choice you could buy one or you didn't have to.  Myself I don't worry too much what other people spend their money on it's their choice.