Author Topic: A Lever Action That Outshoots a Bolt Action? (Read 9840 times)

Freezer · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2010, 02:48:17 PM »

Swampman I disagree. Lever guns offer a fast follow up and lighter weight. Bolts are generally heavier and more accurate than the lesser priced levers, Win, Mossberg, Marlin. There are exceptions. The better quality levers in the right caliber will hold their own against a bolt. Where I hunt when I'm in the woods I'm on the menu (cougar and bear) and prefer the fast second shot. I could also be presented with a shot in excess of 250 yrds. An accurate lever or pump in the correct caliber is the best choice. If I hunt the lake bottom my Rem gets the nod hands down. It's more acurate at longer ranges albeit it weighs more but I'll be sitting. I would not expect a 30-30 or 35 lever gun to perform like my Savage 308 even with a scope. the 30-30 with it's round nose bullets and low presure just can't do it. Accurate at 100 yards maybe effective to 200 yards

depends.
The question was "A lever that outshoots a bolt action?" They are out there but at what range and what game?

PS Swampman not backing a Remmy Bolt

I almost spit beer all over my laptop

Casull · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2010, 03:47:20 PM »

Well, I've learned one thing here . . . any old lever gun will outshoot almost any bolt action.

Now if those benchrest guys ever find out, their groups will be cut in half.

Hank in Indiana · « **Reply #32 on:** October 14, 2010, 06:06:14 AM »

I've seen alot of Benchrest rifles in my time but never seen one in Lever action. I've never even seen a Lever with a bull barrel.

jimster · « **Reply #33 on:** October 14, 2010, 12:48:14 PM »

Quote

I've seen alot of Benchrest rifles in my time but never seen one in Lever action. I've never even seen a Lever with a bull barrel.

If your sittin at a bench not much is going to outshoot a benchrest bolt action rifle made for that.

If your in the deep woods a lever action can get off a couple of accurate fast shots before the benchrest rifle can even get off one shot, and that's if you can find the target in the 20X scope at all. Now someone with a light weight bolt action with the proper sights in the deep woods can do as well as levers if he knows how to use it.

There is a place for everything.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #34 on:** October 14, 2010, 02:28:15 PM »

I believe Winchester produced the Model 94 with a number of different barrel configurations. When I was in high school we hunted with a gold miner who had an early Model 94 in 30-30 Winchester. His rifle had the largest diameter, octagon barrel I have seen on a 30-30. Never had the occasion to see him shoot paper with it, but I was with him when he put three or four Silvertips behind the shoulder of a big buck very rapidly.

There was some discussion regarding the rifle. I believe it had started out as a Long Tom and had been cut back to carbine length. After the kill we returned to his cabin to process the buck. I noticed a paper plate tacked to a tree about fifty yards out from the house with a tight group on it.

His rifle is the heaviest carbine I have had my hands on, it must have been close to ten pounds. When I read the bull barrel post this rifle came to mind.

Marlin 336 and the Winchester M94 weight around 7 pounds. Depending on the configuration of the Remington 700 it runs plus and minus 7 pounds. I am thinking my 336 is closer to eight pounds with scope and mount added; could be a little heavier when loaded. My Savage 110CL depending on the scope is about ½ pound more.

I like the short barrel for woods hunting; it comes on point very fast. Some of that advantage is given up when the lever action has a 22 or 24 inch barrel. When tall scope mounts or See-Thru mounts are installed they take away from the point ability of the rifle. For me paper accuracy needs to carry over in the hunting field.

It has been touched on many times, but if you are comparing bolt action versus lever action the sighting equipment has to be comparable. There was no way that the old 25-35 Winchester Model 94 Saddle Ring Carbine I carried when I was twelve years old with buckhorn sights was as accurate as Dad’s scoped bolt action.

Forty plus years from time of purchase my Marlin 336 is more accurate today than in 1971 because of a better scope, and ammunition selection.

wreckhog · « **Reply #35 on:** October 14, 2010, 06:12:51 PM »

Quote from: Hank in Indiana on October 14, 2010, 06:06:14 AM

I've seen alot of Benchrest rifles in my time but never seen one in Lever action. I've never even seen a Lever with a bull barrel.

Check out the Henry 30-30 sometime and let me know what you think. I consider it a bull barrel.

BBF · « **Reply #36 on:** October 14, 2010, 07:38:14 PM »

Quote from: IOWA DON on July 28, 2010, 02:15:16 AM

........................He gave me some full jacket military ammo for sighting in but he was going to use some soft points for hunting.

I've run into that sort of thinking more then once. It usually takes a demo on the range with using both types of ammo to convince folks that this is a bad idea.( Not counting 15 yard shots)

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #37 on:** October 15, 2010, 03:41:00 AM »

I once used the military ball ammo to get the gun on paper. Very large groupings, then finished sighting with the same bullet weight hunting ammo. Now I use a laser boresighter. This usually gets it within a few inches of zero. A few rounds and a few clicks, I on.

Freezer · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2010, 05:33:58 PM »

The 94 Winny is no bench gun. The recoil is horrable! Two inches at 100yrds is ok for that type of hunting gun with iron sites. The question was "Can a lever gun out shoot a bolt". The answer, yes sometimes and within certian perameters. My 308 Savage 99f can hold it's own for three shots. After that the barrel heats up and POA changes. My 94 Winny never, not even on a good day. I would never expect it to. A good Browning in the right caliber Yes, with a good scope but for the first three shots.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2010, 07:59:01 AM »

Like I said earlier, Browining lever guns are as accurate as bolt guns out of the box, even Remingtions.

Win 88 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 18, 2010, 08:54:05 AM »

My Winchester m/88 doesn't outshoot my bolt guns, but on the other hand do they not outshoot the m/88 either. I have shot some 3/4" inch patterns with that rifle and Sierra 180 grs RN, but more regulary patterns are around 1 and 1½ inch. I do not need tighter.

Pete

digs68 · « **Reply #41 on:** October 22, 2010, 05:29:18 PM »

I've got an old Revelation 30-30 that is one of the most accurate lever guns I've handled. I never cared much for lever guns until I got my hands on that critter. It is smooth as silk, feels "right" in your hands, and will shoot inch or less groups at 100yds with a 4 power scope.
I've killed several deer with it including the past two years in a row that were nearly 200yds. The first wouldn't present the shot I wanted, so I settled on his brisket (which I wouldn't normally recommend, but I was confident in the little gun) and dropped him. Th second was a broadside shot as he checked a scrape.
I sight it in about 3" high at 100 so I can feel reasonably confident out to 200 or so.
This year I bought an old Savage 110 in .243 that shoots a bit tighter groups and it's a bolt gun. I also bought a Handi in .308 that had to be sent back to the manufacturer due to misfires. I'm hoping it will become a real shooter when I get it back and fine-tune it. If so, it will be my deer hunting gun this year, just for the thrill of hunting with a single shot.

jbmi · « **Reply #42 on:** October 23, 2010, 02:04:09 PM »

Savage 99, 358, great gun, not a bad group for a hunting gun.

Winchester 88, I had this one rebored from a 308 to a 338 Federal, again, good group for a hunting gun. Both targets are with my hand loads.

tattoo13 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 08, 2010, 08:03:42 AM »

I switched scopes around a bit the last week and put my Swift back on my 336/.30-30.
A few shots to zero it and once I hit center, I followed it up with 3 more just to be sure.
3/4" group at 100, sitting on a platic lawn chair and using my porch railing and a folded jacket as a rest. 170Gr Reminton Core-Lokt straight from the box.
Just for giggles I ran two rounds og Harnaday Leverevolution 160Gr and the rounds impacted higher but left two hole in a nice figure eight.
Maybe not better than a top flight bolt gun, but better than many out there.

BBF · « **Reply #44 on:** November 08, 2010, 08:58:16 AM »

Being a southpaw puts lever guns high on my list by itself. I don't have one now, the Rem 742 with a shortened barrel that I do have works just fine as well.

Troggy · « **Reply #45 on:** November 20, 2010, 07:31:23 AM »

Well the best groups I can get out of my WIN 70 .270 is just under two inches. My Marlin 336rc .35rem shoots 3/4" all day and my G2 30-30 handgun does the same. .270 better vel and range but at 100 yrds my other two lever cartriges out shoot it by a mile.

ratgunner · « **Reply #46 on:** November 26, 2010, 05:57:37 AM »

All of my most accurate rifles have been bolts.

Ghostman · « **Reply #47 on:** November 28, 2010, 01:54:03 PM »

I've got a Savage 99A in 243 that shoots 1/2" or less 5 shot groups with 3 different handloads. It beats most of my bolt guns in accuracy.

painted horse · « **Reply #48 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:01:17 AM »

Man, reading some of these replys just goes to show that the old adage, "first story ain't got a chance" is still alive and well today.

454Puma · « **Reply #49 on:** January 01, 2011, 08:35:58 AM »

I don't need my levers to shoot 1" or below! If I get 1-1.5" at 100 yards thats good to go out to 200-250 yards! Which is the longest I need to be shooting at game with them! My Bolt guns are capable of killing way out to 500 yards so yes they need to shoot under an inch at 100 yards!

SM Bob · « **Reply #50 on:** January 02, 2011, 08:52:35 AM »

My scoped 336 Marlin 30-30 will put 5 shots right around 1" at 100 yards + or - depending on the conditions
using 150gr Remington Core-loc bullets and IMR 4895. It has a front barrel band too. It is one of my
more accurate rifles. I have owned several bolt actions that wouldn't do that and I have owned a couple
that would do better. I guess it just depends on the gun and the shooter.

Robert

gallatin · « **Reply #51 on:** January 11, 2011, 07:28:58 AM »

All I have is levers and my 1985 CB in 45-70 is a tack driver as is my 99E in 308 and my BLR in 243
John

quietman · « **Reply #52 on:** January 12, 2011, 05:11:09 AM »

Outshoots, no. Shoots as well as, yes.

So you know, I sight the gun in to shoot High at 100 yards, so the bullets hitting above the bullseye at that range is deliberate.
Here's two targets from my 338MX. First one shot with the forend on a rest in gusts up to 40 mph that were moving me around, 0.5" by 0.75" Top hole is made by two bullets, this is a 3 shot group.
Wind was blowing across the range perpendicular to the flight path of the bullet, which meant I was getting blown side to side.

This second one is using a sling with my forearm braced. Had to sight it in again as I'd installed some upgraded wood I'd received from Marlin and changed from Weaver rings to Burris. These were shot without allowing the barrel to cool down. Bottom group is 3 shots, Top group is 5 shots.

I'm thinking the horizontal stringing may be due to the fact I don't have the permanent recoil pad on yet and am using a slip on pad. The bullets didn't walk in one direction from the initial POI but randomly shot to the right or left of the first bullet.

The rifle has a 2.5-8 x36 Leupold on it. When I'm shooting it, I have a Beartooth comb elevation kit that's used to help with quick eye alignment with the scope.

And not many bolts look as good as this

:

Yeah, I know that's not the standard wood but I'd set her against some custom guns for looks.

SM Bob · « **Reply #53 on:** January 12, 2011, 08:10:49 PM »

QM,
That rifle is absolutly beautiful! What gorgeous wood it has! WOW!

Great shooter too!

Robert

Blackwell bikes · « **Reply #54 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:20:53 AM »

My win 88 .308 shoots at least MOA at 100/200, shoots better than some of my bolts but not all of them

T.R. · « **Reply #55 on:** January 18, 2011, 12:18:59 PM »

This sturdy bullet by Remington is famous for its consistent and deadly mushroom.

My carbine is an older Glenfield model 30GT with 18.5 inch barrel. This excellent scope is Simmons 2X - 8X.

TR

eye shot · « **Reply #56 on:** January 19, 2011, 09:11:31 AM »

I have a 1979 99E in .308 that I bought new. It's the most inaccurate rifle I have ever owned, about 4" groups at 100yds. My very old 98 Mauser will out shoot it by half. My .17 Rem. is very close to one hole at 100yds. I guess to me a bolt would be alot more accurate.

Ranger413 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 02, 2011, 07:02:26 AM »

I grew up with the Winchester Model 88 in .308. To me, its a different lever action than the traditional. It has a one piece stock and just looks sleek. I've bested bolt guns that I've owned with the 88 several times. I read an article recently that claimed it had a "whippy" barrel. Maybe so, but it sure is quick and accurate. I love the set-up so much that I recently bought another as a gun for my son sometime down the road. My dad also has one, so I'm hoping someday we can all be on the same hunt with 88's.

Ranger413

GRAMPS 94 · « **Reply #58 on:** February 21, 2011, 02:21:19 PM »

MY Henry Big Boy LEVER gun. Blazer 357mag 158 gr JHP at 100 yards off a rolled up towel.
NO scope, I use a Skinner Peep site and the stock front site. The third group of 10 shots had three
in the middle with the rest in about a 4" circle off to the side. My old eyes go fuzzy after a few shots. But the first ones aint too bad. If I hunted game I would use a scope though, just for a better chance of a clean kill. Hunting isnt off a bench.

Freezer · « **Reply #59 on:** February 21, 2011, 05:59:48 PM »

After reading these posts I came to two conclusions. One, there are lever guns that can hold their own with bolt action hunting guns. Two, some of you guys need to do some work on your bolt action guns. Trigger jobs, bedding, and floating the barrel can make your bolt gun as good as my lever